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A crazy thought on "after effect"


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#1    PsiSeeker

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 12:13 PM

I feel the the self that we're aware of is an expression of the matter that defines us.  That self that we're aware of then exists as potential in the form of brain energy/electricity.  Assume that the matter that defines us loses it's ability to produce the potential we're aware of.  As the potential we're aware of exists in the form of an inordinate number of electrical impulses at different rates of frequency (which also happens to be massless) then the last tick of time that we'll be aware of will incorporate the rest of available time for matter in the universe.

Mind boggling stuff, thoughts?

An illusion is an illusion.  The key difference between the two is that one is limited by time and the other by perception.

#2    kitty81

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 08:40 PM

I understand what you mean.. I hope.. ! The way we feel is not how we present ourselves???

Kitty >'.'<

#3    kitty81

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 08:45 PM

I think everyone feels this, but it is hard to describe.. your 'right & wrong' has a lot to do with it..
correct me if I am wrong.. !

Kitty >'.'<

#4    PsiSeeker

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:29 AM

I'm going to re-clarify the OP.  To be honest I feel uncomfortable talking about things like this.  I've also come to understand that may way of wording things in my head is pretty bad.

An illusion is an illusion.  The key difference between the two is that one is limited by time and the other by perception.

#5    PsiSeeker

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:42 AM

View PostPsiSeeker, on 22 March 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

I feel the the self that we're aware of is an expression of the matter that defines us.  That self that we're aware of then exists as potential in the form of brain energy/electricity.  Assume that the matter that defines us loses it's ability to produce the potential we're aware of.  As the potential we're aware of exists in the form of an inordinate number of electrical impulses at different rates of frequency (which also happens to be massless) then the last tick of time that we'll be aware of will incorporate the rest of available time for matter in the universe.

Mind boggling stuff, thoughts?

Effectively what I've realized is this.
A person has a brain.
If that person's brain has no electrical activity within it then there is no person.
A brain (as physical matter with protons and neutrons and cells and...) therefore only exists as potential for a person.

This therefore points to the fact that who you are isn't your brain (that's only the potential of who you are.)  Who you are is the electrical activity firing off in ways unique to you.  (Feel free to dispute this, I'm no neurologist or psychologist)

"You" then is constantly being redefined as your brain changes so too your electrical impulses.

The OP was concerned with what occurs with the last electrical impulse seeing as it is simply many streams of electrons.  The last imprint of yourself on this planet (massive energy surge through the brain before going dead I read somewhere) will be this energy in the brain.

Now my understand of massless particles or "point mass" particles is that they don't experience time as we're aware of now.  They're also subject to quantum mechanics.

Take for example a photon. (light particle)  As the photon experiences 1 tick of time the rest of the universe at 0 velocity experiences an infinite period of time.  I'm unsure of how this works for electrons however I assume it's similarish.  So effectively I'm saying this, the last "tick of time" you'll be aware of will be the entire universe experiencing an infinite amount of time as you die.

Now hoping I'm somewhat more clear >.<.

Thoughts?

An illusion is an illusion.  The key difference between the two is that one is limited by time and the other by perception.

#6    PsiSeeker

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:44 AM

View Postkitty81, on 22 March 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

I understand what you mean.. I hope.. ! The way we feel is not how we present ourselves???

I guess the OP was open to interpretation xD..  But yeah, I've had a few people (and my mother >.>) telling me to stop looking so annoyed and angry when I was simply lost in deep thought.  How we are perceived is not how we feel.  Unfortunately this isn't the idea I was trying to convey :(.

An illusion is an illusion.  The key difference between the two is that one is limited by time and the other by perception.

#7    Rlyeh

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:53 AM

Isn't that like saying your computer would take an infinite amount of time to switch off?

I think you're talking about time dilation, which traveling at light speed there is no experience of 1 tick as time comes to a stand still.


#8    PsiSeeker

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 06:17 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 30 March 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

Isn't that like saying your computer would take an infinite amount of time to switch off?

I think you're talking about time dilation, which traveling at light speed there is no experience of 1 tick as time comes to a stand still.

Not quite.  I'm trying to think of what happens to it subjective.  Objectively we view a computer turning off.  Subjectively the (assuming the computer had awareness) it doesn't experience turning off.  It only experience turning off and then immediately being turned on.  The last "tick of time" it is aware of instantaneously encompasses the remaining time to turn on again.  The very last time it turns off then will instantaneously encompass the rest of available time as far as it's concerned.

There is a slight problem though in that photons don't have rest mass where as electrons do.  I'm not sure if the same time dilation principles would apply to electrons.

An illusion is an illusion.  The key difference between the two is that one is limited by time and the other by perception.

#9    Rlyeh

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 06:39 AM

View PostPsiSeeker, on 30 March 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

Not quite.  I'm trying to think of what happens to it subjective.  Objectively we view a computer turning off.  Subjectively the (assuming the computer had awareness) it doesn't experience turning off.  It only experience turning off and then immediately being turned on.  The last "tick of time" it is aware of instantaneously encompasses the remaining time to turn on again.  The very last time it turns off then will instantaneously encompass the rest of available time as far as it's concerned.

There is a slight problem though in that photons don't have rest mass where as electrons do.  I'm not sure if the same time dilation principles would apply to electrons.
I'm not sure "aware" is an accurate term when you really aren't aware.

If the universe takes an infinite amount of time before you to die (or lose consciousness), technically an outside observer will never see you die.


#10    PsiSeeker

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 07:04 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 30 March 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

I'm not sure "aware" is an accurate term when you really aren't aware.

If the universe takes an infinite amount of time before you to die (or lose consciousness), technically an outside observer will never see you die.

Hmm.  It probably would be a convergent experience (the time becoming smaller and smaller approaching death but only ever reaching it after a subjectively infinite period of time.)

I suppose I'm implying this could be a divergent experience but it doesn't really fit objectively unless we're dealing with particles that DO have 0 rest mass.

Anyway, the observer WOULD see you die.  The physical, potential you.  It's unclear what happens to the kinetic you though.

An illusion is an illusion.  The key difference between the two is that one is limited by time and the other by perception.

#11    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 08:36 PM

View PostPsiSeeker, on 22 March 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

I feel the the self that we're aware of is an expression of the matter that defines us.  That self that we're aware of then exists as potential in the form of brain energy/electricity.  Assume that the matter that defines us loses it's ability to produce the potential we're aware of.  As the potential we're aware of exists in the form of an inordinate number of electrical impulses at different rates of frequency (which also happens to be massless) then the last tick of time that we'll be aware of will incorporate the rest of available time for matter in the universe.

Mind boggling stuff, thoughts?

Reality is created by the mind in response to electrical signals from our senses. If the mind was created from a brain like a computer program runs on a PC then our minds would be located inside our heads.

However we dont experience reality inside our heads we experience it all around us. Therefore the mind might be connected to our brain but it isnt located inside our heads.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 30 March 2012 - 08:37 PM.


#12    PsiSeeker

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 03:41 AM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 30 March 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Reality is created by the mind in response to electrical signals from our senses. If the mind was created from a brain like a computer program runs on a PC then our minds would be located inside our heads.

However we dont experience reality inside our heads we experience it all around us. Therefore the mind might be connected to our brain but it isnt located inside our heads.

The mind is directly dependent on these electrical signals however and one can say that it's a complex symphony of these signals that is in itself the mind.  Regarding to where it is however.  Where it is is an illusion.  It's merely a reference point that's convenient for where we physically are in 3 dimensional space.

The mind "unhinges" when you're asleep as it does not need to physically be where you are in order to continue operating.

A similar thought experiment.  If your remove only the brain and extend the nerve fibers indefinitely your brain could be on the moon but you will still experience reality from where your body is.  Your head could have empty space in the middle with your brain removed but you'll still feel like you're in your head.

An illusion is an illusion.  The key difference between the two is that one is limited by time and the other by perception.

#13    Rlyeh

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 06:25 AM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 30 March 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Reality is created by the mind in response to electrical signals from our senses. If the mind was created from a brain like a computer program runs on a PC then our minds would be located inside our heads.
Which they are, unless you're going to deny the existence of mind altering substances that act on the nervous system.

Quote

However we dont experience reality inside our heads we experience it all around us. Therefore the mind might be connected to our brain but it isnt located inside our heads.
No, we receive input that travels to the inside of our heads.

If our mind wasn't located in our heads, there would be no reason for our nervous system.


#14    Leonardo

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 08:28 AM

View PostPsiSeeker, on 30 March 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

Effectively what I've realized is this.
A person has a brain.
If that person's brain has no electrical activity within it then there is no person.
A brain (as physical matter with protons and neutrons and cells and...) therefore only exists as potential for a person.

This therefore points to the fact that who you are isn't your brain (that's only the potential of who you are.)  Who you are is the electrical activity firing off in ways unique to you.  (Feel free to dispute this, I'm no neurologist or psychologist)

"You" then is constantly being redefined as your brain changes so too your electrical impulses.

The OP was concerned with what occurs with the last electrical impulse seeing as it is simply many streams of electrons.  The last imprint of yourself on this planet (massive energy surge through the brain before going dead I read somewhere) will be this energy in the brain.

Now my understand of massless particles or "point mass" particles is that they don't experience time as we're aware of now.  They're also subject to quantum mechanics.

Take for example a photon. (light particle)  As the photon experiences 1 tick of time the rest of the universe at 0 velocity experiences an infinite period of time.  I'm unsure of how this works for electrons however I assume it's similarish.  So effectively I'm saying this, the last "tick of time" you'll be aware of will be the entire universe experiencing an infinite amount of time as you die.

Now hoping I'm somewhat more clear >.<.

Thoughts?

I understand what you are driving at, but why should the last 'tick' be any different to all the other 'ticks' during our lifetime?

If anything, the very first 'tick' that we experience would last the lifetime of the universe, if what you propose were to be true.

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#15    PsiSeeker

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 09:35 AM

View PostLeonardo, on 31 March 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

I understand what you are driving at, but why should the last 'tick' be any different to all the other 'ticks' during our lifetime?

I've thought of this and I feel it's due to our perception constantly being redefined in waves as the potential for who we are (our brains) drive us.  I feel that every tick influences the potential self until the very last potential self is the accumulation of you however this experience most probably must be convergent.  Who you are is constantly being redefined but it seems seamless to us.  The you that may experience an infinite amount of time at one tick influences the potential for you (the brain) and a new you that comes out of that.

Quote

If anything, the very first 'tick' that we experience would last the lifetime of the universe, if what you propose were to be true.

I thought of the possibility of this however after thinking about it again I realized that electrons do have rest mass.  I was relating my thoughts regarding photons (which don't have rest mass.)  As a result the experience wouldn't be divergent (taking up the lifetime of the universe.)  It would be convergent (becoming infinitely small or at least to whatever the smallest is assuming no holographic universe.)

Edit:  If the universe is cyclic and holographic however then convergence of perception would take up the lifetime of the universe subjectively.

Edit2:  This may be read as that there are an inordinately large number of "yous" experiencing this convergence of dropping off of the material level of reality.  I don't believe this is the case however.  In every time coordinate the "you" is seamlessly joined onto the next "you" for the next time coordinate on the material level.  As a result we're not aware of a previous "you" dropping off of the material level.  Perceptually as we're constantly spawned out of the potential of "you" the very last perception of "you" will experience this convergent dive into infinity.

Edited by PsiSeeker, 31 March 2012 - 09:47 AM.

An illusion is an illusion.  The key difference between the two is that one is limited by time and the other by perception.




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