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My theory on Alien intervention on Earth


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#16    Arbitran

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 07:13 PM

View Postquillius, on 23 March 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

there are a few of us here that buy into the possibility, such as myself.

Yes, you (we) will face heavy opposition but thats good right?

all I ask is that if we are to enter and win this war (debate) then dont arm us with feathers (fantasy) otherwise they will win very easily as they have some heavy armoury (facts)

So what is the most compelling piece of 'evidence' you have found through the research?

(oh, and welcome)  :tu:

I will firstly thank you for your civility. As for the most compelling evidence I have to date, there are many directions in which I could go. Perhaps among the most remarkable is the fact that nearly every culture in the world has stories and writings discussing the same events (not the best evidence yet). Perhaps what some have considered the best evidence is when an ancient culture (which is regarded as primitive by modern "anthropology") can be clearly seen to possess scientific knowledge--which ought to be unknown to a primitive society. For example, the ancient Hindu texts, such as the Vedas, describe in minute detail the principals of the precise speed of light, gravity, the heliocentric model of the solar system, the number of planets in our solar system, nuclear power, aeronautics and astronautics, etc. (I apologize most sincerely for my incapability to link to pages--if I can find the time I'll attempt to write out the relevant passages myself at a later time). And, of course, when such knowledge is displayed, and the source of the knowledge is requested, there are two possibilities:

1 ~ They learned it the same way we did, through experimentation and observations.

2 ~ They learned it from a more heavenly source, namely, the gods who came from outer space.

I think we are all aware which one of these two answers is the unanimous choice of the ancient texts...

I will thank you once again for your manners and kindness. Namaste.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#17    Arbitran

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 07:17 PM

View PostHazzard, on 23 March 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

Yes, the origing of man. My best advice to you, arbitran, is to pay attention to psyche 101 (and the links he posted) he knows this stuff better that most people here. As for the extraterrestrial hypothesis, I can find no credible evidence to support that belief so I dont share that at all.


Most unidentified flying objects are eventually identified as hoaxes or astronomical events, aircraft, satellites, weather balloons, or other natural phenomena.

Some are not resolved because of inconclusive information/evidence.

None have been resolved by putting forth overwhelming evidence that aliens have either flown by or landed on our planet.



Welcome to UM.

Thank you for your welcome.

You are of course entitled to deny the existence of the gods, as is anyone who sincerely disbelieves in them. I for one rely very little on modern accounts of UFOs, and prefer to study the remarkable knowledge recorded by the ancient peoples of our world, in relation to the gods from the stars. Of particular interest to anyone who wishes to know more about modern UFOs however, I do have some degree of information acquired from the ancient texts which is highly relevant (feel free to strike up a conversation with me if you are at all interested).

Once again, thank you for the welcome. Namaste.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#18    Lion6969

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 09:44 PM

I think it's quite obvious as to how the Vedas can be freely interpreted. Sure they contain many a phenomena, but their authenticity is not definitive neither the age of the scriptures, there are many differing views among Sanskrit and Hindu scholars. However to assume that they talk about aliens intervening is quite a jump to take, maybe your moulding the research to fit you're preconcieved ideas.

I have a huge respect for the Vedas and any scientific or other phenomenal knowledge can be attributed to men of that time, or the other flip side, it's revelation from god.


#19    Arbitran

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 10:43 PM

View PostLion6969, on 23 March 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

I think it's quite obvious as to how the Vedas can be freely interpreted. Sure they contain many a phenomena, but their authenticity is not definitive neither the age of the scriptures, there are many differing views among Sanskrit and Hindu scholars. However to assume that they talk about aliens intervening is quite a jump to take, maybe your moulding the research to fit you're preconcieved ideas.

I have a huge respect for the Vedas and any scientific or other phenomenal knowledge can be attributed to men of that time, or the other flip side, it's revelation from god.

I had no preconceived notions about extraterrestrials prior to my research of the ancient texts--other than perhaps the fact that I did not believe that they existed at all. It's not at all a jump that the texts refer to alien beings; how much clearer could it be than "those that came from outer space" (as well as numerous accounts of the specific planets and stars from which the beings hailed)?

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#20    Hazzard

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:02 PM

View PostArbitran, on 23 March 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

I had no preconceived notions about extraterrestrials prior to my research of the ancient texts--other than perhaps the fact that I did not believe that they existed at all. It's not at all a jump that the texts refer to alien beings; how much clearer could it be than "those that came from outer space" (as well as numerous accounts of the specific planets and stars from which the beings hailed)?

The "ancient astronauts" theory interested me in the past, but the more I read/heard the more skepical I got. Of course, it is possible that visitors from outer space did land on earth a few thousand years ago and communicate with our ancestors.

But it seems more likely that prehistoric people themselves were responsible for their own art, technology and culture. The ancient astronaut hypothesis is unnecessary. Occams razor should be applied and the hypothesis rejected.

The reason is simple, there is no credible scientific evidence to support it.

Edited by Hazzard, 23 March 2012 - 11:02 PM.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#21    Lion6969

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:33 PM

View PostArbitran, on 23 March 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

I had no preconceived notions about extraterrestrials prior to my research of the ancient texts--other than perhaps the fact that I did not believe that they existed at all. It's not at all a jump that the texts refer to alien beings; how much clearer could it be than "those that came from outer space" (as well as numerous accounts of the specific planets and stars from which the beings hailed)?

It's clearly down to interpretation of the scripture and Sanskrit! Your interpret it as outerspace others as the heavens, it's also dependent on contextual variables, including historic, oral, written, cultural contexts. Hence why I said the flip side is that they came from the heavens, angels, gods, Demi gods, whatever the case maybe it could be interpreted as something different and according to most scholars it's reference to heavenly bodies more in correlation with a deity than E T!


#22    Arbitran

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:45 PM

View PostLion6969, on 23 March 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

It's clearly down to interpretation of the scripture and Sanskrit! Your interpret it as outerspace others as the heavens, it's also dependent on contextual variables, including historic, oral, written, cultural contexts. Hence why I said the flip side is that they came from the heavens, angels, gods, Demi gods, whatever the case maybe it could be interpreted as something different and according to most scholars it's reference to heavenly bodies more in correlation with a deity than E T!

There is no difference whatsoever between a "deity" and an "ET". The descriptions are absolutely identical. Thus there is no demarcation.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#23    Arbitran

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:50 PM

View PostHazzard, on 23 March 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

The "ancient astronauts" theory interested me in the past, but the more I read/heard the more skepical I got. Of course, it is possible that visitors from outer space did land on earth a few thousand years ago and communicate with our ancestors.

But it seems more likely that prehistoric people themselves were responsible for their own art, technology and culture. The ancient astronaut hypothesis is unnecessary. Occams razor should be applied and the hypothesis rejected.

The reason is simple, there is no credible scientific evidence to support it.

Indeed, it would be more likely that the ancients simply did all of those amazing things themselves, except...

1 ~ Many of those amazing ancient things (constructions, books, etc.) display a level of sophistication on the part of the creator which is significantly beyond that which the ancient peoples of our planet are thought to have possessed.

2 ~ The ancients made it quite clear who really did those amazing things: the gods, from outer space.

Factors such as these are of supreme importance in these circumstances.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#24    Hazzard

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:10 AM

View PostArbitran, on 23 March 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

Indeed, it would be more likely that the ancients simply did all of those amazing things themselves, except...

1 ~ Many of those amazing ancient things (constructions, books, etc.) display a level of sophistication on the part of the creator which is significantly beyond that which the ancient peoples of our planet are thought to have possessed.

2 ~ The ancients made it quite clear who really did those amazing things: the gods, from outer space.

Factors such as these are of supreme importance in these circumstances.


How can you be sure that this is what the writer/constructor had in mind when creating "your evidence"? How can you be sure that this isnt just your (modern man) interpretations of these texts and other artifacts,... As in, I believe that you (and guys like Erich von Däniken) are only looking for the things that supports your preconceived notion?

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#25    Arbitran

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:20 AM

View PostHazzard, on 24 March 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

How can you be sure that this is what the writer/constructor had in mind when creating "your evidence"? How can you be sure that this isnt just your (modern man) interpretations of these texts and other artifacts,... As in, I believe that you (and guys like Erich von Däniken) are only looking for the things that supports your preconceived notion?

Again, no preconceived notions. Well, not no preconceived notions... My current ideas are diametrically opposed to the preconceived notions I used to have.

Of course we can't be sure what the original creators of those things had in mind--that's open to interpretation. I simply have one of many possible, equally-valid interpretations of the evidence. Any one of them could be correct. My essential point is that my theses are based solely on the available evidence.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#26    Hazzard

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:29 AM

View PostArbitran, on 24 March 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

Again, no preconceived notions. Well, not no preconceived notions... My current ideas are diametrically opposed to the preconceived notions I used to have.

Of course we can't be sure what the original creators of those things had in mind--that's open to interpretation. I simply have one of many possible, equally-valid interpretations of the evidence. Any one of them could be correct.

Thats all Im saying. We cant know for sure.


Quote

My essential point is that my theses are based solely on the available evidence.

You have made quite clear that your opinion is based on nothing more that your interpretation of said "evidence".

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#27    Arbitran

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:00 AM

View PostHazzard, on 24 March 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Thats all Im saying. We cant know for sure.




You have made quite clear that your opinion is based on nothing more that your interpretation of said "evidence".

Indeed. Then we understand each other. Each of our opinions is simply our own interpretation of the evidence. It's virtually impossible to determine which of us is right unless new evidence proves or disproves one of us (or even both of us).

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#28    Lion6969

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:23 AM

View PostArbitran, on 23 March 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

There is no difference whatsoever between a "deity" and an "ET". The descriptions are absolutely identical. Thus there is no demarcation.

Really? One is a god and the other a product of the god. My point was not to say it's this or that definitively, my point was that when you take all contextual variables including linguistics, it's refers to heavenly bodies, more in line with a theistic perspective and the scriptures themselves largely are theological. I have studied them too and I agree there is some amazing information which you claim has alien origins where as others claim it's revelation while others say it's mans own handy work, there is a possibility it could be both revelation and interfered by man too. That's why it requires a quite a leap to equate to ancient aliens, the very source for your reliance about this theory is very open to different interpretations, when you weigh the evidence it in no way supports your theory.

I don't have a problem with ancient man being developed and advanced and no longer around today, cyclical! Civilisations come and go and the Rama empire came and went. Your theory is the same as ufolisgts claiming the bible talks about ancient aliens, when infact it does not after you take all variables into consideration, yet a fringe group like to freely interpret scripture and create any meaning there of.


#29    Hazzard

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:27 AM

View PostArbitran, on 24 March 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

Indeed. Then we understand each other. Each of our opinions is simply our own interpretation of the evidence. It's virtually impossible to determine which of us is right unless new evidence proves or disproves one of us (or even both of us).


Agreed.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#30    Arbitran

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 01:43 AM

View PostLion6969, on 24 March 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Really? One is a god and the other a product of the god. My point was not to say it's this or that definitively, my point was that when you take all contextual variables including linguistics, it's refers to heavenly bodies, more in line with a theistic perspective and the scriptures themselves largely are theological. I have studied them too and I agree there is some amazing information which you claim has alien origins where as others claim it's revelation while others say it's mans own handy work, there is a possibility it could be both revelation and interfered by man too. That's why it requires a quite a leap to equate to ancient aliens, the very source for your reliance about this theory is very open to different interpretations, when you weigh the evidence it in no way supports your theory.

I don't have a problem with ancient man being developed and advanced and no longer around today, cyclical! Civilisations come and go and the Rama empire came and went. Your theory is the same as ufolisgts claiming the bible talks about ancient aliens, when infact it does not after you take all variables into consideration, yet a fringe group like to freely interpret scripture and create any meaning there of.

Your interpretations in no way hold more sway than mine. I simply note that there is no tangible distinction based on linguistics, semantics, or definition to divide the concept of "god" with that of "ET". The interpretation of "gods" as some sort of intangible, incorporeal entity is but one possible interpretation--and one which is more often than not absent from the ancient texts, which typically speak of "gods" and "demons" as plainly flesh-and-blood beings. As near as it can be seen, it would likely be a greater leap to suggest that ancient man for some reason chose to attribute their greatest achievements to beings from another world. I see no "theology" in the ancient texts (the Bible's first few chapters are interesting--after that they become more and more fictional).

I mean no offense to anyone who may disagree.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison




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