208 replies to this topic

[Arbitran]

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

I am afraid the flaws are upon your corrections.

Biblical Flood - 40 days and 40 nights (a figurative time-frame used in ancient Mesopotamian literature to define a period of time which was unknown)

We are speaking of the Biblical flood and the information in the Bible, Again, you personal interpretations are superflous here.

Genesis 7:12

And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.

In any case, it happened whilst people waited out the weather on the ark. How many people live for 100,000 years like the Ice Age? What we definitely do have is a massive disparity of time frames that suggest how long the earth was supposedly underwater - which it never was during an Ice age, or at the and of an Ice age, yet was in the Biblical Flood.

No comparison.

And you also have this:

(which, for the record was not a boat)

Please explain further and please point out where I said boat, I did not, I said Ark.

(no animals died at the end of the last ice age?)

EVERY animal that was not on the ark perished. Even most fish. Temperatures and water compositions would have changed too rapidly for evolution to counter. I did not say some animals died, I said ALL of them did who were not on the ark which consisted of two of each kind chosen, Please read the posts more carefully before trying to nitpick.

If you do not believe the Biblical account, just try to focus on the claim of the entire earth being flooded all at once. That is the Biblical account that we are discussing here. Although I do not see any point in your protests to be honest. I fail to see how they pertain to the current subject matter.

As I said, I do not defend the biblical view. I believe it to be false. I was merely making notes. You did not say boat, I was merely noting that an ark is not a boat.

It is not my own speculation that 40 day and 40 nights was indefinite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anunnaki
Yes, of course a controversial page to note, but the relevant line is at the bottom: "The length of time "40 days" is used in antiquity when an unknown amount of time has passed. eg. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights."

I apologize if this was all off-topic. It need not be discussed. I believe that we both agree that the biblical account is false.

[psyche101]

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

I have been attempting to keep my word: I have simply been attempting to outline the definitions of some Hindu terms which will be pertinent to this conversation.

If you must refer to a Hindu term, please make it clear that you are doing so. We are discussing peoples views such as Stephen Hawking during the course fo the conversation. His interpretation is not Hindu. I request this courtesy for both our sakes.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

All life is sacred.

Indeed, but that has no bearing on what we were discussing. You said why can a mortal creature not be a deity, to which I replied, of course, and gave the cow as an example.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

Oh, so we are talking about atmospheric vimanas. I was confused momentarily; forgive me.

Indeed, perhaps that is my fault, but I thought the use of the word "aerodynamics" made the distinction clear. Aerodynamics are not required in space.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

These are not what vimanas actually looked like. These are illustrations made in 1973--they have no bearing on the original craft. Atmospheric vimanas possessed a similar mechanism to the Alcubierre concept, however at a much smaller scale. They behaved much like modern aircraft, however they also incorporated means of manipulating the air around them in such a way that they could maneuver much more effectively and extensively than modern aircraft.

As far as I know the early texts do not have illustrations, that is the major difference between the translated english and the original versions. Can you direct me to an original version, and if you are so confident that they work, and that we have clear instruction, why are they not in use?

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

It has. Look on any map of the world. It is just south of Middle America.

I have seen it, and the more recent one from spain, the one from africa etc etc etc. Been there done that more than once. I suggest we do not side track the thread with this ludicrous nonsense. There is a forum specifically for that, which you will notice I largely avoid due to the sheer frustration of the zealous attitude created by Ignatius Donelly. That scoundrel is largely responsible for this fantasy.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

You requested me to use Western terminology, and I am attempting to do so. The few times I have been forced to used Hindu terms is in outlining their definitions and Western equivalents.

I am requesting that you use the accepted terminology. I dod not request that you use your terminology and throw in some links with different terminology. That is a sure path to confusion.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

I am indeed critical of Christianity; I believe it to be one of the chief threats to mankind. But I do not judge Christians for this--it is the doctrine of which I am critical; the followers thereof are often not responsible for their acceptance of the beliefs.

Now that is interesting. I have the exact opposite opinion of the Christian Faith. I think many of the lessons are very beneficial to mankind, but I think mans personal interpretation which has led to a multitude of Christian faiths fueled by the greed of man has vastly misused the text, and interpreted it to suit the benefactor of the moment. I believe the West uses a religious text as a historical document, and the middle east uses a historical document as a religious text. I always found it rather ironic.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

It is not that either of our terminologies is terribly confusing, I think--it is simply that as a Hindu, I regard "god" to be equivalent to "extraterrestrial". That is the only point in which there seems to be issue.

As I see them as two very different things, I find switching between the terminology terribly confusing. If you refer to a god as an extra terrestrial, I would appreciate it if you made that definition clear to all.

Edited by psyche101, 11 April 2012 - 05:42 AM.

[psyche101]

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

As I said, I do not defend the biblical view. I believe it to be false. I was merely making notes. You did not say boat, I was merely noting that an ark is not a boat.

It is not my own speculation that 40 day and 40 nights was indefinite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anunnaki
Yes, of course a controversial page to note, but the relevant line is at the bottom: "The length of time "40 days" is used in antiquity when an unknown amount of time has passed. eg. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights."

I apologize if this was all off-topic. It need not be discussed. I believe that we both agree that the biblical account is false.

They are Sumerian gods not the Christian God. In any case, I agree, this is superfluous, we agree the Biblical flood did not happen. Ice ages happened, some flooding happened, nothing like the Biblical account happened. The earth waas not covered in water.

[Arbitran]

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

If you must refer to a Hindu term, please make it clear that you are doing so. We are discussing peoples views such as Stephen Hawking during the course fo the conversation. His interpretation is not Hindu. I request this courtesy for both our sakes.

Very well. I agree.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

Indeed, but that has no bearing on what we were discussing. You said why can a mortal creature not be a deity, to which I replied, of course, and gave the cow as an example.

The cow and bull are not regarded as deities in the Hindu faith. All life is sacred however, and thus, under the virtue of ahimsa, or non-violence, to slay one in cold blood is a dark and cruel act.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

Indeed, perhaps that is my fault, but I thought the use of the word "aerodynamics" made the distinction clear. Aerodynamics are not required in space.

No, this was decidedly my fault. Upon reading your post again I discovered that I missed your use of the word "aerodynamics"--I must have incidentally passed over a line as I was responding. Forgive me for the confusion.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

As far as I know the early texts do not have illustrations, that is the major difference between the translated english and the original versions. Can you direct me to an original version, and if you are so confident that they work, and that we have clear instruction, why are they not in use?

True, the early texts do not have illustrations. The reason for their not being in use at this time is due to the fact that the necessary materials are not all available. For instance, metals are required which have not been replicated yet by modern metallurgy. I myself attempted to construct a crude replica once, many years ago. However I was halted by the inability to work with the necessary metals, as well as the lack of proper fuel (that and the neighbors were beginning to become suspicious of the purpose of the thing and nearly reported me).

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

I have seen it, and the more recent one from spain, the one from africa etc etc etc. Been there done that more than once. I suggest we do not side track the thread with this ludicrous nonsense. There is a forum specifically for that, which you will notice I largely avoid due to the sheer frustration of the zealous attitude created by Ignatius Donelly. That scoundrel is largely responsible for this fantasy.

No comment. All I will say is that my position is the Hindu position; thus I believe that Atlantis has been found, and is South America.
We can leave it at that; it is indeed off-topic.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

I am requesting that you use the accepted terminology. I dod not request that you use your terminology and throw in some links with different terminology. That is a sure path to confusion.

Indeed, that is an assured path to confusion. My apologies.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

Now that is interesting. I have the exact opposite opinion of the Christian Faith. I think many of the lessons are very beneficial to mankind, but I think mans personal interpretation which has led to a multitude of Christian faiths fueled by the greed of man has vastly misused the text, and interpreted it to suit the benefactor of the moment. I believe the West uses a religious text as a historical document, and the middle east uses a historical document as a religious text. I always found it rather ironic.

I agree of course with certain small aspects of the Christian religion (love thy neighbor, etc.; this was said by the Buddha centuries before Jesus). But on the whole, I cannot accept a faith, nor a text, which condones slavery, demands the slaughter of homosexuals, the oppression of women, and the barbaric Bronze Age punishments for nonsensical theocratic, totalitarian crimes. That is all I will say on the matter at this time.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

As I see them as two very different things, I find switching between the terminology terribly confusing. If you refer to a god as an extra terrestrial, I would appreciate it if you made that definition clear to all.

To clarify, I regard a god as and extraterrestrial, and an extraterrestrial as a god. I am unsure how to clarify further; I hope this will suffice for the time being.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

They are Sumerian gods not the Christian God. In any case, I agree, this is superfluous, we agree the Biblical flood did not happen. Ice ages happened, some flooding happened, nothing like the Biblical account happened. The earth waas not covered in water.

Then we are agreed.

[psyche101]

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

Very well. I agree.

Thank you, I am sure we will both benefit.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

The cow and bull are not regarded as deities in the Hindu faith. All life is sacred however, and thus, under the virtue of ahimsa, or non-violence, to slay one in cold blood is a dark and cruel act.

I was of the understanding that some parts of India did regard the cow as a deity? In any case the cow is considered sacred though. The Nandi Bull holy site at Madurai, the Bull Temple in Bangalore and the Shiva temple at Mahabalipuram certainly lead my Western view to understand the cow as having a spiritual aspect at the very least.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

No, this was decidedly my fault. Upon reading your post again I discovered that I missed your use of the word "aerodynamics"--I must have incidentally passed over a line as I was responding. Forgive me for the confusion.

It is forgotten. I should have been clearer as well.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

True, the early texts do not have illustrations. The reason for their not being in use at this time is due to the fact that the necessary materials are not all available. For instance, metals are required which have not been replicated yet by modern metallurgy. I myself attempted to construct a crude replica once, many years ago. However I was halted by the inability to work with the necessary metals, as well as the lack of proper fuel (that and the neighbors were beginning to become suspicious of the purpose of the thing and nearly reported me).

May I ask what specific metals are prescribed that do not exist?

Honestly, looking at what I have seen, the designs appear to be short on detail.

May I ask what specific item halted your construction, do you have any pictures, or do you know of any pictures from attempts to follow these instructions perhaps even from other people?

What would happen if you were reported? Would anyone really be concerned that you are following the instructions of what is a public document?

Did you try to build a spaceship or an aeroplane (vedic) ?

May I ask what the "fuel" consisted of.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

I agree of course with certain small aspects of the Christian religion (love thy neighbor, etc.; this was said by the Buddha centuries before Jesus). But on the whole, I cannot accept a faith, nor a text, which condones slavery, demands the slaughter of homosexuals, the oppression of women, and the barbaric Bronze Age punishments for nonsensical theocratic, totalitarian crimes. That is all I will say on the matter at this time.

Again, I think that is interpretation to a large extent, overall I think it is a good guideline on how to live in a social situation. Burt I agree that I do not condone what it has been used for and how it has been wielded in the past. I watched a movie on Hypatia which entailed the time when Christianity had just taken hold, and if the accounts are even partly accurate, the newfound confidence of early Christians was something to be ashamed of. But I think most religions have something to offer mankind, expect perhaps the Muslim religion. And of course cults that exist under the guise of religions such as scientology. They are what I would regard as abominations.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

To clarify, I regard a god as and extraterrestrial, and an extraterrestrial as a god. I am unsure how to clarify further; I hope this will suffice for the time being.

As a suggestion, could we perhaps restrict ourselves to regarding any reference to Gods as Gods, and when you feel these are referring to Extra Terrestrials can you please say, Aliens refereed to in the vedas as Gods or something like that just so I know exactly where you are heading?

If we could have

Gods - Dieties
Gods in script regards as ET - Gods from the Vedas which Arbitran considers Aliens
Aliens - Beings from a planet that is not earth.

I think that might make the debate easier? I am open to any suggestion you may have as well.

Edited by psyche101, 11 April 2012 - 06:31 AM.

[Arbitran]

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

I was of the understanding that some parts of India did regard the cow as a deity? In any case the cow is considered sacred though. The Nandi Bull holy site at Madurai, the Bull Temple in Bangalore and the Shiva temple at Mahabalipuram certainly lead my Western view to understand the cow as having a spiritual aspect at the very least.

Some sects may regard the cow as a god--in the same sense however that I believe in the gods: as an extraterrestrial. Yes, I've heard that some sects in India believe that the cow is an extraterrestrial animal. There is some textual evidence to support this, however the evolutionary history would seem to refute it for the most part. I'm not sure I lean in that direction. About the only way I think it could even be remotely possible is based on the fact that DNA on Earth and the gods' planet are the same, and perhaps an import wouldn't be noticed. I can't say for certain either way.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

It is forgotten. I should have been clearer as well.

I thank you for your kindness.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

May I ask what specific metals are prescribed that do not exist?

An alloy of gold, silver, iron, zinc, and copper is specified. Modern metallurgy has not succeeded in replicating a useful reproduction of this formula.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

May I ask what specific item halted your construction, do you have any pictures, or do you know of any pictures from attempts to follow these instructions perhaps even from other people?

The need for the unavailable alloy, as well as the energy source; these were the sources of my hindrance. Yes, I have photos, here in my house. I do not know of any other attempts to construct a functional craft.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

What would happen if you were reported? Would anyone really be concerned that you are following the instructions of what is a public document?

The source of the issue stemmed from my neighbors' unawareness of the texts, or that I was using them. They were concerned because they had apparently mistaken my efforts as some sort of dangerous machine. Also, given the controversial nature of course of things like flying saucers and the like, I was a bit reluctant to openly discuss it. This likely served only to augment their suspicions. Their imaginations ran wild after a while, I suppose.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

Did you try to build a spaceship or an aeroplane (vedic) ?

I made an effort to engineer a spacecraft from the vimana texts. I managed to make a frame, reminiscent of a metal hunting-blind, as well as a collection of tori and the beginnings of computerized mechanisms--that was before I reached the point whereby the text specified that the hull be fabricated from an unavailable alloy.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

May I ask what the "fuel" consisted of.

The fuel, the energy source, is essentially nuclear. You can of course see how I was cautious and hesitant to attempt to manufacture a nuclear reactor. A quantity of plasma was also specified. I didn't even know where to start in an attempt to acquire that. I ended the project. I think my son might still have the frame of my unfinished craft in his garage--he always thought it was interesting. He swears that someday he'll try to finish it for me.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

Again, I think that is interpretation to a large extent, overall I think it is a good guideline on how to live in a social situation. Burt I agree that I do not condone what it has been used for and how it has been wielded in the past. I watched a movie on Hypatia which entailed the time when Christianity had just taken hold, and if the accounts are even partly accurate, the newfound confidence of early Christians was something to be ashamed of. But I think most religions have something to offer mankind, expect perhaps the Muslim religion. And of course cults that exist under the guise of religions such as scientology. They are what I would regard as abominations.

I'll say, on this point we might be straying slightly from the topic. In any case, I'd say I essentially agree with you.

psyche101, on 11 April 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

As a suggestion, could we perhaps restrict ourselves to regarding any reference to Gods as Gods, and when you feel these are referring to Extra Terrestrials can you please say, Aliens refereed to in the vedas as Gods or something like that just so I know exactly where you are heading?

If we could have

Gods - Dieties
Gods in script regards as ET - Gods from the Vedas which Arbitran considers Aliens
Aliens - Beings from a planet that is not earth.

I think that might make the debate easier? I am open to any suggestion you may have as well.

I think, in general, I will attempt to say "extraterrestrials". If however you catch me using "gods" instead... I hope that you're at least aware of my position. I think that we're essentially clear on this point.

[quillius]

glad to see this debate turning amicable

[Arbitran]

quillius, on 11 April 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

glad to see this debate turning amicable

Indeed, as am I.

[quillius]

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

Indeed, as am I.

you seem convinced Arbitran, which is ok with me. This however is why its good to have someone like Psyche on the other side challenging, as he is also convinced of the opposite of what you think.

makes interesting reading

[psyche101]

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

Some sects may regard the cow as a god--in the same sense however that I believe in the gods: as an extraterrestrial. Yes, I've heard that some sects in India believe that the cow is an extraterrestrial animal. There is some textual evidence to support this, however the evolutionary history would seem to refute it for the most part. I'm not sure I lean in that direction. About the only way I think it could even be remotely possible is based on the fact that DNA on Earth and the gods' planet are the same, and perhaps an import wouldn't be noticed. I can't say for certain either way.

Interesting, I had not heard of the Cow as likened to Extra Terrestrial, I will have to have a look at that one. Indeed the fossil record has some convincing evidence that would falsify that hypothesis.

Suffice to say, we agree that physical beings can be regarded as a deity.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

An alloy of gold, silver, iron, zinc, and copper is specified. Modern metallurgy has not succeeded in replicating a useful reproduction of this formula.

Have you considered attempting to have a sample created so that you might be able to examine the properties? A Jeweller should be able to make a sample if you supply the quantities and ratios. All metals can be alloyed with enough temperature.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

The need for the unavailable alloy, as well as the energy source; these were the sources of my hindrance. Yes, I have photos, here in my house. I do not know of any other attempts to construct a functional craft.

Would it be possible for you to post them so that we may view the efforts? In perhaps your personal blog section of this forum, in a thread, or in a web space like Picasa or Flickr?

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

The source of the issue stemmed from my neighbors' unawareness of the texts, or that I was using them. They were concerned because they had apparently mistaken my efforts as some sort of dangerous machine. Also, given the controversial nature of course of things like flying saucers and the like, I was a bit reluctant to openly discuss it. This likely served only to augment their suspicions. Their imaginations ran wild after a while, I suppose.

That is fair enough, and that seems a reasonable reaction. I have heard of nutters trying to build bombs in their backyards because God told them to. It pays to be cautious. Hopefully and explanation to the authorities would clear any misconceptions up but I would not blame one for wishing to avoid such.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

I made an effort to engineer a spacecraft from the vimana texts. I managed to make a frame, reminiscent of a metal hunting-blind, as well as a collection of tori and the beginnings of computerized mechanisms--that was before I reached the point whereby the text specified that the hull be fabricated from an unavailable alloy.

Did you manage to get any computerised mechanisms up and running, what functions were they controlling, and how did the computer work? Who programmed it? I have feeling that Vimenas would not do too well with Windows running the show.

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

The fuel, the energy source, is essentially nuclear. You can of course see how I was cautious and hesitant to attempt to manufacture a nuclear reactor. A quantity of plasma was also specified. I didn't even know where to start in an attempt to acquire that. I ended the project. I think my son might still have the frame of my unfinished craft in his garage--he always thought it was interesting. He swears that someday he'll try to finish it for me.

I hope he does.

Plasma is a state of matter similar to gas in which a certain portion of the particles are ionised, do you know what sort of plasma, or are you referring to Yellow Heliotrope?

Arbitran, on 11 April 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

I think, in general, I will attempt to say "extraterrestrials". If however you catch me using "gods" instead... I hope that you're at least aware of my position. I think that we're essentially clear on this point.

I am better versed in your posting now, and hopefully I will pick up any discrepancies before any confusions begins.

[psyche101]

quillius, on 11 April 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

you seem convinced Arbitran, which is ok with me. This however is why its good to have someone like Psyche on the other side challenging, as he is also convinced of the opposite of what you think.

makes interesting reading

Gidday Mate

I am glad it has toned down as well, But as I always say, I am OK with personal belief, jus not personal facts

Cheers.

[conspiracyparanormal]

Just adding my personal hypothesis to the discussion, I do not think aliens had anything to do with the origins of the various races on earth. Don't get me wrong. Alien people exist, and they have a keen interest in the events that transpire on this Earth, but they do not intervene or interfere with our affairs. I believe they visit only to observe and report back to their peoples what is transpiring here, and how it might affect them in the larger, eternal picture. Indigenous influences right here on Earth are far more intent on meddling with our business.

I might point out that scriptural records indicate a corruption of all flesh during the antediluvian period on Earth. In other words, between about 4000 BC and roughly 2344 BC, human genetics had likely been corrupted by Luciferian, Satanic, and demonic manipulations. Adam had extensive knowledge of DNA and biology, which he undoubtedly passed on to his posterity. The Adamic language was a perfect language and was the common language among all of Earth's inhabitants until the days of Babel, around 2000 BC, when all languages on Earth were confounded.

In spite of having a perfect language, the vast majority of Earth's inhabitants embraced evil intentions and behaviors. I believe genetic variances were introduced by Earth's own inhabitants, through experimentation, genetic engineering, DNA synthesis, hybridization attempts (not with aliens), and sexual perversions, many of which involved animals. While only eight people survived the great flood, which occurred around 2344 BC, the posterity of those eight may have carried latent genetic permutations that eventually manifested and further mutated into the variety of races we see today. The most obvious example is the case of Ham and his wife Egyptus. Egyptus was a blood descendant of Cain, that same Cain who killed his brother Abel back in the day and was subsequently genetically permuted by God to have black skin. Cain's subsequent genetic traits were passed to his children and on down through the generations to the posterity of Ham and Egyptus, and then on to our present day.

There may have been other, more subtle permutations passed through the posterity of Shem and Japeth and their wives. I realize this does not answer the question of where Chinese genetic traits originate, but it suggests they may have been passed down through Noah's offspring, having originated during some antediluvian permutation of human genetics. The traits could have been introduced during post-diluvian events as well.

*snip*

Edited by Saru, 13 April 2012 - 09:48 AM.
Edited for link dropping

[Arbitran]

conspiracyparanormal, on 12 April 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

Just adding my personal hypothesis to the discussion, I do not think aliens had anything to do with the origins of the various races on earth. Don't get me wrong. Alien people exist, and they have a keen interest in the events that transpire on this Earth, but they do not intervene or interfere with our affairs. I believe they visit only to observe and report back to their peoples what is transpiring here, and how it might affect them in the larger, eternal picture. Indigenous influences right here on Earth are far more intent on meddling with our business.

Their records would seem to indicate otherwise: very strongly.

conspiracyparanormal, on 12 April 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

I might point out that scriptural records indicate a corruption of all flesh during the antediluvian period on Earth. In other words, between about 4000 BC and roughly 2344 BC, human genetics had likely been corrupted by Luciferian, Satanic, and demonic manipulations. Adam had extensive knowledge of DNA and biology, which he undoubtedly passed on to his posterity. The Adamic language was a perfect language and was the common language among all of Earth's inhabitants until the days of Babel, around 2000 BC, when all languages on Earth were confounded.

I do not believe in "Luciferian, Satanic, and demonic" anything. About the closest things to "demons" I think actually exist are bacteria. Sure, maybe human genetics was affected by bacteria. But bacteria haven't been known for their intelligence...

conspiracyparanormal, on 12 April 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

In spite of having a perfect language, the vast majority of Earth's inhabitants embraced evil intentions and behaviors. I believe genetic variances were introduced by Earth's own inhabitants, through experimentation, genetic engineering, DNA synthesis, hybridization attempts (not with aliens), and sexual perversions, many of which involved the splicing of animal DNA and human DNA. While only eight people survived the great flood, which occurred around 2344 BC, the posterity of those eight may have carried latent genetic permutations that eventually manifested and further mutated into the variety of races we see today. The most obvious example is the case of Ham and his wife Egyptus. Egyptus was a blood descendant of Cain, that same Cain who killed his brother Abel back in the day and was subsequently genetically permuted by God to have black skin. Cain's subsequent genetic traits were passed to his children and on down through the generations to the posterity of Ham and Egyptus, and then on to our present day.

Any evidence for such a specific date for the flood? As I've said before, the Bible seems to be rather silent on dates--as far as I've read it.

conspiracyparanormal, on 12 April 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

There may have been other, more subtle permutations passed through the posterity of Shem and Japeth and their wives. I realize this does not answer the question of where Chinese genetic traits originate, but it suggests they may have been passed down through Noah's offspring, having originated during some antediluvian permutation of human genetics. The traits could have been introduced during post-diluvian events as well.

Again, any tangible genetic evidence of this? I was under the impression that modern anthropology and genetics have shown that modern humans are descended from a single group in Africa. That would seem to invalidate the claim that we're all descended from eight inbred Mesopotamians.

conspiracyparanormal, on 12 April 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

Lucifer's efforts to manipulate genetics in his fervent quest to create for himself a human body know no end. I am throwing a lot of ideas in here in a relatively short set of paragraphs. I have much more to say on the matter than can be adequately expressed here. Please visit my conspiracyparanormal blogspot link in my signature for more on this topic. Particularly search for the post titled Alien Abductions are Misnomers, and the post titled Front Row Seats to History's Greatest Event.

Lucifer is one of two things:

1 ~ The Latin translation of a title given to the kings of Babylon and Persia.

2 ~ A fictional character in John Milton's Paradise Lost.

One thing Lucifer isn't is a real being.

[Arbitran]

psyche101, on 12 April 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

Interesting, I had not heard of the Cow as likened to Extra Terrestrial, I will have to have a look at that one. Indeed the fossil record has some convincing evidence that would falsify that hypothesis.

Indeed. I will note that it is intriguing that Aurochs, the ancestor of modern bovids, first appears in the fossil record circa 2.5 million years ago. This is the same time period in which the cow-extraterrestrial believers say the gods imported the cow from another world. I can't say much more, but it is interesting at the very least.

psyche101, on 12 April 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

Suffice to say, we agree that physical beings can be regarded as a deity.

Indeed.

psyche101, on 12 April 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

Have you considered attempting to have a sample created so that you might be able to examine the properties? A Jeweller should be able to make a sample if you supply the quantities and ratios. All metals can be alloyed with enough temperature.

I did make such efforts. I went to two different metallurgists and a foundry for information: they told me that such an alloy has never been made, and might not even be possible with modern techniques. I didn't know where to go from there, so that contributed to the end of my project.

psyche101, on 12 April 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

Would it be possible for you to post them so that we may view the efforts? In perhaps your personal blog section of this forum, in a thread, or in a web space like Picasa or Flickr?

I do not know how to put my photos on the computer at this time. My son is visiting me next week, and he might know how. I'll see if he can assist me.

psyche101, on 12 April 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

That is fair enough, and that seems a reasonable reaction. I have heard of nutters trying to build bombs in their backyards because God told them to. It pays to be cautious. Hopefully and explanation to the authorities would clear any misconceptions up but I would not blame one for wishing to avoid such.

Indeed. Fortunately the police were never contacted, but yes, an explanation would likely have cleared any suspicions.

psyche101, on 12 April 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

Did you manage to get any computerised mechanisms up and running, what functions were they controlling, and how did the computer work? Who programmed it? I have feeling that Vimenas would not do too well with Windows running the show.

Fortunately one of my school friends is a computer programmer, and he did the work on that field. Yes, the systems were functional, but I never got a chance to really test them properly, as of course I never actually finished the project.

psyche101, on 12 April 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

I hope he does.

Plasma is a state of matter similar to gas in which a certain portion of the particles are ionised, do you know what sort of plasma, or are you referring to Yellow Heliotrope?

The system, as far as I am aware, is essentially identical to the concept known today as a "tokamak". Here is further information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokamak
One major snag was the plasma--another was the technology to fit the system into the craft. Seemingly, the variant described in the texts is more advanced than our own: as it has evidently been significantly miniaturized, while still generating and maintaining the same energy functions.

psyche101, on 12 April 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

I am better versed in your posting now, and hopefully I will pick up any discrepancies before any confusions begins.

Excellent.

[conspiracyparanormal]

Arbitran, on 12 April 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

Their records would seem to indicate otherwise: very strongly.



I do not believe in "Luciferian, Satanic, and demonic" anything. About the closest things to "demons" I think actually exist are bacteria. Sure, maybe human genetics was affected by bacteria. But bacteria haven't been known for their intelligence...



Any evidence for such a specific date for the flood? As I've said before, the Bible seems to be rather silent on dates--as far as I've read it.



Again, any tangible genetic evidence of this? I was under the impression that modern anthropology and genetics have shown that modern humans are descended from a single group in Africa. That would seem to invalidate the claim that we're all descended from eight inbred Mesopotamians.



Lucifer is one of two things:

1 ~ The Latin translation of a title given to the kings of Babylon and Persia.

2 ~ A fictional character in John Milton's Paradise Lost.

One thing Lucifer isn't is a real being.

So, you are saying there is no devil, and thus implying there is no God?