38 replies to this topic

[Parsip]

http://www.cbsnews.c...imes/?tag=stack

Quote

(AP) KABUL, Afghanistan - Afghanistan's criminal justice system has made little progress in the way it treats women accused of running away or adultery, despite public commitments from the Afghan president to protect women's rights, Human Rights Watch said Wednesday.

The New York-based group's report on women jailed for so-called "moral crimes" comes as many women's rights activists say they're worried that President Hamid Karzai will abandon promises to protect those rights as he tries to court the Taliban for peace talks. Under the Taliban regime, women were forced to wear body-and-face covering burqas and were not allowed out of the house without a male family member as an escort.

There is no entry in the Afghan penal code for the crime of "running away" and yet hundreds of women have been jailed for fleeing their families or husbands.

Women interviewed by Human Rights Watch often said they were trying to escape abusive husbands or forced marriages. In some cases, those who had left were assumed to have cheated on their husbands, and therefore were jailed for adultery, which is a criminal offense in Afghanistan.

The report said police, prosecutors and judges routinely ignore women's accusations of abuse, arguing even in the face of physical evidence that women are either lying about the abuse or making it seem more severe than it was.

Only a few decades ago, when America or Britain occupied a country, they forced them to adopt Western culture (or at least laws) and didn't put up with any dissent. Nowadays they replace one oppressive theocracy with another, apologize for offending Islam, and call the war a success. What happened? Is it bad PR for one country to force its culture on another? What would Japan and Germany be like today if the US declared that their ideologies and cultures were perfectly sensible and acceptable and they didn't need to change at all?

Edited by Parsip, 29 March 2012 - 01:14 PM.

[Taun]

Parsip, on 29 March 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

http://www.cbsnews.c...imes/?tag=stack



Only a few decades ago, when America or Britain occupied a country, they forced them to adopt Western culture (or at least laws) and didn't put up with any dissent. Nowadays they replace one oppressive theocracy with another, apologize for offending Islam, and call the war a success. What happened? Is it bad PR for one country to force its culture on another? What would Japan and Germany be like today if the US declared that their ideologies and cultures were perfectly sensible and acceptable and they didn't need to change at all?

That is why - when people ask me if I am a Republican or a Democrat - I answer "Neither". I am an Imperialist!"

We get accused of it anyway - so lets embrace it... the next time we have to invade some backwards, oppressive country - we keep it!

[and then]

Taun, on 29 March 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

That is why - when people ask me if I am a Republican or a Democrat - I answer "Neither". I am an Imperialist!"

We get accused of it anyway - so lets embrace it... the next time we have to invade some backwards, oppressive country - we keep it!

The Romans, brutal as they were, had this figured out.  Invade, subdue and make them an offer they couldn't refuse.  The Pax Romana.  We,ll give you infrastructure, commerce and a degree of prosperity or we'll leave a scorched earth where you used to be.  Convenient and effective as long as you had no moral or ethical sense.  Oh, and as long as you remained strong enough to subdue

[and then]

I feel badly for those who will be steamrolled back into oppression when we inevitably leave there.  Many will probably die for cooperating.  But the situation is just impossible and we cannot stay there forever, hoping that such a culture can be changed by external actors.

[ZaraKitty]

What is this? I don't even.

[Device]

I don't think the U.S or even the Afgahn security forces can defeat the Taliban. There's just an endless stream of men from all over the region, happy to join their cause. They just hide out in the mountains. At best, I think, the Taliban will be prevented from occupying whole cities, and that, military elements will make life difficult for them.

But I don't think they're going away any time soon.

[libstaK]

The true tragedy is that it is not about changing the Afghani culture - it is about restoring it to pre-Taliban rule.  Afghanistan used to have a decent record on the education and treatment of it's women folk and head/body coverings were not mandatory or frowned up if someone did not choose to abide by them.  They traded well and their cricket team, for instance, was a truly international competitor.

The buddhists statues that were destroyed in the 90's had stood there in amongst the traditions of the Afghani people for hundreds of years for instance - prior to the rise of the Taliban, and attracted thriving tourism industries to boot.

[meryt-tetisheri]

Quote

those who had left were assumed to have cheated on their husbands, and therefore were jailed for adultery, which is a criminal offense in Afghanistan.

I am starting to develop a deep dislike to the word "assume", a court of law "assuming" guilt and pronouncing sentence accordingly is a travesty of justice and shames not only the judges, but their whole judiciary system. Treating women like chattels or mindless pawns and stripping them of their most basic human rights is criminal. Today is definitely not my PC day, I'd better stop commenting!

[Coffey]

Parsip, on 29 March 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

http://www.cbsnews.c...imes/?tag=stack



Only a few decades ago, when America or Britain occupied a country, they forced them to adopt Western culture (or at least laws) and didn't put up with any dissent. Nowadays they replace one oppressive theocracy with another, apologize for offending Islam, and call the war a success. What happened? Is it bad PR for one country to force its culture on another? What would Japan and Germany be like today if the US declared that their ideologies and cultures were perfectly sensible and acceptable and they didn't need to change at all?

Are we actually occupying Afghanistan though? Our armies are working with Afghanistans military etc to fight the Taliban, which is different to say Iraq here we actually fought the Iraq military. So technically it's different to Japan and Germany.  This is more like Vietnam where the US was fighting with South Vietnamese forces againt rebals. I was goignt o mention korea but that's different as it's mroe complicated with North and South being like different countries.

[psyche101]

I think the real question is why do these women not only abide by such indignity, but condone it. How do you help someone that does not want your help?

[Hilander]

The Taliban and their extreme views towards women have hurt Afghanistan tremendously.  I think the reason women don't speak out against it more and seem like they are happy with it is because they like being alive.  I feel sure once we, U.S., have left the Taliban will once again control that country with fear and murder.

[and then]

I'm both angry and sick at heart over the blood we spilled there from year two onward.  I don't devalue the sacrifice; in fact those who were killed or maimed after it became a political exercise are to be applauded even more for their willingness to stand and be counted in those circumstances, IMO.  But we are no able to "build nations" nor should we even try any longer.  When another country or group threatens our people we have a duty to protect and defend.  Kill the enemy until he no longer has a will to fight, then let him stay busy for a few decades rebuilding from the mess he caused.  It's the only way our experiment in freedom will live to see 300 years.

[Coffey]

Hilander, on 30 July 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

The Taliban and their extreme views towards women have hurt Afghanistan tremendously.  I think the reason women don't speak out against it more and seem like they are happy with it is because they like being alive.  I feel sure once we, U.S., have left the Taliban will once again control that country with fear and murder.

The Taliban wouldn't have weapons or the training for this war wihtout the US in the first palce. lol

[odas]

and then, on 30 July 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

I'm both angry and sick at heart over the blood we spilled there from year two onward.  I don't devalue the sacrifice; in fact those who were killed or maimed after it became a political exercise are to be applauded even more for their willingness to stand and be counted in those circumstances, IMO.  But we are no able to "build nations" nor should we even try any longer.  When another country or group threatens our people we have a duty to protect and defend.  Kill the enemy until he no longer has a will to fight, then let him stay busy for a few decades rebuilding from the mess he caused.  It's the only way our experiment in freedom will live to see 300 years.

Of course the sacrifice of the Amrican, Canadian..youth was for nothing.
Afghanistan and the taliban did not attack the US.
But, as for all we know, they did harbour al quaida.
Nothing will change in Afghanistan. A soon as Nato leaves the taliban will regain power. Unfortunately.

[and then]

odas, on 03 August 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

Of course the sacrifice of the Amrican, Canadian..youth was for nothing.
Afghanistan and the taliban did not attack the US.
But, as for all we know, they did harbour al quaida.
Nothing will change in Afghanistan. A soon as Nato leaves the taliban will regain power. Unfortunately.

Oh no, not nothing.  The Taliban were killed in large numbers and had their little honey hole pissed all over.  You can hardly say the effort was totally useless.  In fact I daresay that in future these types will think twice before kicking a tiger in the ass without first having made some plan for what to do with his teeth.  But all that was accomplished in the first year.  And they make these things called satellites now.  The taliban will never be as free to build training bases or just export terror openly without getting killed in the process.  You can't kill all the cockroaches but you can darned sure kill the right ones!