71 replies to this topic

[Imaginarynumber1]

There was another thread in this section that contained an article that pretty much lambasted the recxent Reason Rally as a dark and hateful rally in D.C.
Here's a clip that I believe shows just the opposite to be the case.

[Lilly]

If this is "dark and hateful" then I'm going over to the "dark side" PDQ.

[willowdreams]

Imaginarynumber1, on 29 March 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

There was another thread in this section that contained an article that pretty much lambasted the recxent Reason Rally as a dark and hateful rally in D.C.
Here's a clip that I believe shows just the opposite to be the case.

COUNT ME IN FOR THE DARK SIDE!!!!

[Imaginarynumber1]

Lilly, on 30 March 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

If this is "dark and hateful" then I'm going over to the "dark side" PDQ.

The article in the other thread tried to paint a picture of hate speech and resentment, when I think the whole rally was more a meeting of minds, if you will.
Plus, I though Savage made a great speech.

[Leave Britney alone!]

This thread, as the other, compliment each other in that both reveal just one side of the coin but together we can see both sides. This movement has function and dysfunction but without honestly evaluating that how will it ever integrate itself within society?

[Lilly]

Personally, (especially since I'm typing this on a computer) I'd say that scientific thinking has already integrated itself into society. And, rational thinking has been around for quite awhile (way back folks). I see this as more of what Carl Sagan was saying in "The Demon Haunted World".

Quote

I worry that, especially as the Millennium edges nearer, pseudo-science and superstition will seem year by year more tempting, the siren song of unreason more sonorous and attractive. Where have we heard it before? Whenever our ethnic or national prejudices are aroused, in times of scarcity, during challenges to national self-esteem or nerve, when we agonize about our diminished cosmic place and purpose, or when fanaticism is bubbling up around us-then, habits of thought familiar from ages past reach for the controls. The candle flame gutters. Its little pool of light trembles. Darkness gathers. The demons begin to stir.

And Dr. Sagan said this long before 9/11. IMO, we need this realization more than ever.

[libstaK]

Lilly, on 30 March 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Personally, (especially since I'm typing this on a computer) I'd say that scientific thinking has already integrated itself into society. And, rational thinking has been around for quite awhile (way back folks). I see this as more of what Carl Sagan was saying in "The Demon Haunted World".



And Dr. Sagan said this long before 9/11. IMO, we need this realization more than ever.

Yes that is a beautiful and Savage's speech was also beautiful, however I have to say it is not the sole realm of the atheist to appreciate these wisdoms.  It would be as much a better world if people embraced that which we all have in common - love and with it empathy,  and a capacity to reason.

[Chrlzs]

That's just awesome.

[Leonardo]

I saw grey skies and people wearing raincoats.

So, I have to ask...

Was God raining on their parade?

*tongue firmly in cheek*

[Paranoid Android]

I think Unseelie said it best.  Both this thread and the other show two sides of a coin.  Adam Savage's speech was very well said, I reckon if I was a celebrity invited to the event I would have said something very similar (except for the last bit about himself being his own watcher instead of a creator).  I can't say I understand why there was so much cheering over what he said.  Even at large Christian gatherings, I don't cheer when the preacher says something I happen to agree with.  Sounds more like a cult of celebrity (like people cheering a band at a rock concert when they tell them how awesome the crowd is).  

In any case, I reckon Adam Savage (and guests like him) show one side of the Reason Rally (and to be fair it is almost definitely the larger side of things).  On the other side are the people who simply want to protest religion.  Those who want to declare "**** you Christians, don't tell me I can't have an abortion" (paraphrased, of course, for effect, I'm pretty certain those exact words weren't used - especially since pro-choice is not just a religious issue).  I'm pretty sure those types of atheists also attended.  And maybe they weren't intended specifically as part of the Guest List, they still attended and unfortunately for the organisers provided the downside to the event.  

Just a thought,

~ PA

[Leonardo]

Paranoid Android, on 30 March 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

I think Unseelie said it best.  Both this thread and the other show two sides of a coin.  Adam Savage's speech was very well said, I reckon if I was a celebrity invited to the event I would have said something very similar (except for the last bit about himself being his own watcher instead of a creator).  I can't say I understand why there was so much cheering over what he said.  Even at large Christian gatherings, I don't cheer when the preacher says something I happen to agree with.  Sounds more like a cult of celebrity (like people cheering a band at a rock concert when they tell them how awesome the crowd is).  

In any case, I reckon Adam Savage (and guests like him) show one side of the Reason Rally (and to be fair it is almost definitely the larger side of things).  On the other side are the people who simply want to protest religion.  Those who want to declare "**** you Christians, don't tell me I can't have an abortion" (paraphrased, of course, for effect, I'm pretty certain those exact words weren't used - especially since pro-choice is not just a religious issue).  I'm pretty sure those types of atheists also attended.  And maybe they weren't intended specifically as part of the Guest List, they still attended and unfortunately for the organisers provided the downside to the event.  

Just a thought,

~ PA

To be fair, PA, those whom you portray as the "dark side" of the Reason Rally are only standing up for what they believe in the face of a lot of pressure from a long tradition of religious influence on law. Additionally, they are not telling those who follow religious tradition what they can, or cannot, do with their own bodies.

I, personally, would not label those who wish to shout "**** you Christians, don't tell me I can't have an abortion." as 'dark' or 'hateful'. Those labels I would apply to those who cry liberty, while preaching (or practising) dictating.

[Lilly]

Leonardo, on 30 March 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

I, personally, would not label those who wish to shout "**** you Christians, don't tell me I can't have an abortion." as 'dark' or 'hateful'. Those labels I would apply to those who cry liberty, while preaching (or practising) dictating.

I (personally) would label anyone who publically shouted "F-you" at anyone, for any reason, at a public gathering as being disruptive and rude.

And just to add, embracing rational thinking does not somehow preclude having religious/spiritual beliefs.

Edited by Lilly, 30 March 2012 - 03:05 PM.
addition

[Imaginarynumber1]

The problem comes when we have religious and or spiritual people trying to impose their beliefs via our government. Look at Rick Santorum. Everything is all well and good until some starts to shove religion down someone else's throat.
Our governing body is of the people and for the people. Atheists are people as well, despite claims by others. Do we not deserve representation?
Sure there are those on both sides that take things too far, but is it not right to feel a little upset and the treatment some atheists receive at the hands of believers? I know I've been on the receiving end of it. And for what? Because I don't believe in someone else's god? That's just a silly reason to think less of somebody.

[Lilly]

Imaginarynumber1, on 30 March 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

...Sure there are those on both sides that take things too far, but is it not right to feel a little upset and the treatment some atheists receive at the hands of believers? I know I've been on the receiving end of it. And for what? Because I don't believe in someone else's god? That's just a silly reason to think less of somebody.

Exactly, regardless of which side one falls on (religious or atheist) no one has any right to dictate what another person chooses to believe. Also, I personally think no one has any right to shout out obscene remarks in public either. I know there are some folks who think otherwise, but I find such behaviour to quite rude and obnoxious.

[Paranoid Android]

Leonardo, on 30 March 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

To be fair, PA, those whom you portray as the "dark side" of the Reason Rally are only standing up for what they believe in the face of a lot of pressure from a long tradition of religious influence on law. Additionally, they are not telling those who follow religious tradition what they can, or cannot, do with their own bodies.

I, personally, would not label those who wish to shout "**** you Christians, don't tell me I can't have an abortion." as 'dark' or 'hateful'. Those labels I would apply to those who cry liberty, while preaching (or practising) dictating.

I have to disagree.  To use an example from the other thread, the journalist said something about a woman who held up a sign saying "stay out of my panties" (I think that's what it said, from memory).  And though I agree that this wasn't a reference to sexual molestation (as the other article tried to imply) this does equate religious belief with the argument about pro-choice/pro-life.  What isn't made clear is that there are quite a few non-Christians who don't believe in pro-choice.  Yes, not all pro-lifers are Christian, believe it or not.  But some people are so ensconced in their views that they cannot see this and believe that pro-life is a "Christian" view just as much as a person who thinks stem-cell research is wrong (another view that is not entirely championed only by religious folk).  I still maintain my original statement - most people were thoughtful in their response/s, especially the guest speakers (of whom Adam Savage is the only person I have actually seen a video of).  But outside of that are the "darker" elements of militant atheism, who are not there to promote reason but rather to promote anti-religion.  That is a distinction I think some militant atheists are unable to distinguish between.  Pro-reason, anti-religion - they are NOT the same thing, though some seem to think it is

~ PA