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Do atheists feel empty?


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#211    Mr Walker

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:02 AM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 29 April 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

delusion/illusion.....how apt.

I thought so. :whistle:  But just to make clear. The decision to believe or disbelieve has nothing to do with intelligence or smartness per se For example in Australia, the better educated you are, the more likely you are to claim a religious belief.

A belief is ipso facto without evidentiary support or it could not be a belief. Thus, both belief and disbelief on any unknowable question are equally intelligent or smart responses to that question, in that neither can be proved incorrect.  However, the choice does not just relate to the "reality" of the question and its answer, but to the benefits incurred by belief or disbelief.

In the area of religious belief, the scientific evidence is conclusive.Belief confers real and considerable benefits. Thus a smart person may chose belief to gain those benefits, and for no other reason.
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#212    Arbenol68

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:31 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 30 April 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

For example in Australia, the better educated you are, the more likely you are to claim a religious belief.

I've heard many claims to the contrary (in general. Not about Australia in particular). Do you have a reference for this?

#213    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:50 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 30 April 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

I thought so. :whistle:  But just to make clear. The decision to believe or disbelieve has nothing to do with intelligence or smartness per se For example in Australia, the better educated you are, the more likely you are to claim a religious belief.

A belief is ipso facto without evidentiary support or it could not be a belief. Thus, both belief and disbelief on any unknowable question are equally intelligent or smart responses to that question, in that neither can be proved incorrect.  However, the choice does not just relate to the "reality" of the question and its answer, but to the benefits incurred by belief or disbelief.

In the area of religious belief, the scientific evidence is conclusive.Belief confers real and considerable benefits. Thus a smart person may chose belief to gain those benefits, and for no other reason.

Ah yes, the old 'emotional crutch' approach. Well, if believing in an invisible deity puts a spring in your step then why not, and if you believe praying to same deity books you place in an eternal green & pleasant heaven when you die then go for it.

Edited by itsnotoutthere, 30 April 2012 - 12:51 PM.

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#214    JayMark

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:08 PM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 28 April 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

Replying to Do atheists feel empty?

Er, no. just smarter.

The key word here is feel.

Atheists might feel smarter but that's hardly a reality. They are humans, no better nor worst than any other humans.

Science, as far as I understand, is based on the assumption that the universe and everything inside of it is purely material (physical). Matter interacting with matter following the laws of physics. No more, no less.

Fact is that it is an assumption. Of course, it is a very logical one from a purely materialistic mind but still an assumption that can't be proved or disproved as far as science is involved today.

So until we have totally understood everything there is in the universe, including it's origin, I think there is plenty of room for beleifs.

My thoughts.

Peace.

Edited by JayMark, 30 April 2012 - 09:10 PM.

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#215    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:20 PM

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 31 March 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

So last night at work I was talking with a co-worker that is an athiest. He said he found being an atheist depressing and empty. He says it sucks to know there is nothing after this life. This is not a view I typically hear so I was wondering if there are atheists here that also feel this way?

I would suggest that your co-worker isn't really an athiest, and perhaps the sooner he is honest with himself the happier he will be.
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#216    Michelle

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:25 PM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 28 April 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

Replying to Do atheists feel empty?

Er, no. just smarter.

So the illiterate, backwoods, rednecks that (to put it as they do) don't cotton to religion, are smarter than, say, Isaac Newton?

#217    _Only

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 01:52 AM

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View Postitsnotoutthere, on 28 April 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

Replying to Do atheists feel empty?

Er, no. just smarter.

"Oh, come off it."

Edited by _Only, 01 May 2012 - 01:54 AM.

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#218    Mr Walker

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:41 PM

View PostArbenol68, on 30 April 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

I've heard many claims to the contrary (in general. Not about Australia in particular). Do you have a reference for this?
Not of hand although i have found and googled them before. Like most developed countries australia has an excellent census bureau which cross references and makes available, down to small districts, all sorts of data. Australia IS different to america(im not sure about other countries ) One reason is the differing form and relationship or religion in australia. Religion is seen as a force for social good and works cooperatively with govts. Prayers are still said in most of our parliaments including the federal one. Wealthy, well educated, and "powerful' people send their kids to private schools( usually church run) and about 25 % of all students in australia go to these schools. Govt schools generally have chaplains and also some form of optional religious instruction, out sourced via the school councils to local multi denominational organisations.  Thus the richer and more educated adults tend to have an education which involves a spiritual base; but  they also tend to see religion as a social lubricant for good. They also belong to  school based/old boy networks, which include others of like mind.

Poor people have less interest in religion beause, apart from charities etc., it provides less advantages to them. Poor people tend to be less educated, hence wealthier people are both more religious and also quite ready to admit to a religious base in their lives.
Because Australias history and constitution differs from america's, also, wealthy educated people in commerce and government have always tended to be members of churches like the anglican or other religions; while the poor (convict based) or otherwise have a more cynical view of the benefits of religion. Our present PM is a professed atheist, but that is comparatively rare, historically, in political circles. It does her no harm, like it might do in america, but  neither is it seen as necessarily a good or necessary thing in a member of the governing elite. Religion is both more integrated, and yet less important, in Australian society.

In Australia, 23% of Christian church attenders have earned a university or postgraduate degree, whereas the figure for the general population is 13%. Christianity is the predominant religion in Australia, although adherence is falling. Commentators on the Survey attribute the educational levels to sociological factors, such as age, class and income, making no claims about intelligence.

http://www.atheistfo...read.php?t=3304

This section from wikipedia actually illustrates that, in western countries, church attendance rises with education (even in the US) but that educated people tend to  belong to less fervent( read fundamentalist) religions This reinforces what i said about australia, where being religious is seen as  a socia ly worthy thing to do, because religions are seen agents for social good. running major education networks, employment agencies, welfare and charity  organistions; nationwide.

However, in 65 former socialist countries "there is a negative relationship between years of education and belief in God", with similar negative correlations for other religious beliefs while, in contrast, there were strong positive correlations in many developed countries such as England, France and the US. They concluded that "these cross-country differences in the education-belief relationship can be explained by political factors (such as communism) which lead some countries to use state controlled education to discredit religion".
The study also concludes that, in the United States and other developed nations, "education raises religious attendance at individual level," while "at the same time, there is a strong negative connection between attendance and education across religious groups within the U.S. and elsewhere." The authors suggest that "this puzzle is explained if education both increases the returns to social connection and reduces the extent of religious belief," causing more educated individuals to sort into less fervent denominations. [18]

http://en.wikipedia....te_note-NCLS-18

Edited by Mr Walker, 01 May 2012 - 01:21 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#219    Mr Walker

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:56 PM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 30 April 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Ah yes, the old 'emotional crutch' approach. Well, if believing in an invisible deity puts a spring in your step then why not, and if you believe praying to same deity books you place in an eternal green & pleasant heaven when you die then go for it.
Quite right. If a placebo works, one is a fool not to use it.

But I wasnt talking about the emotional benefits of faith, nor the potential afterlife. I was talking about longevity and physical health. Both are statistically influenced by both belief and belonging to a religious group; and by worshipping on a regular basis. ALso, faith can reduce the level of pain felt by human beings measurably by (from memory) between 25 and 50%.

My wife belongs to a religious group who, in every comparable cohort, lives about 10 years longer than its peers, and enjoys better health   especially in those latter decades, Of course her religion (and my choice) involves no use of tobacco, alcohol or drugs.Iit urges/promotes a vegetarian diet with plenty of fresh water and exercise. It even discourages stimulants such as caffeine and coca cola. Hence it has a very low incidence of the great western killers of; cardio vascular disease, cancer and diabetes.

Increasingly modern studies across the world, and involving extensive numbers and time periods, (latitudinal and longitudinal groups) scientifically prove the connection between faith, religion, and life style benefits.
The beauty is that the form of the religion or faith is not really important. It works (is statistically demonstrable) in catholic sardinia, shinto okinawa and protestant america.
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#220    RockabyeBillie

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 01:32 PM

I felt worse as a child growing up in a religious family. I was scared that no matter what I did, I was going to burn in Hell. Throughout my teenage years I realized religion really didn't make sense to me and that I was atheist. I've felt better ever since.

As a side note, it always bothered me that all of my "good Christian" classmates behaved worse than my small group of atheist friends. All they did was drink, have orgies, take a number of drugs, and a few got busted stealing money from their jobs. But they were at church every Sunday, so it's all okay. Right? Hypocrites. Maybe everyone isn't like this, but that's how it was for me.

Back on topic, I don't feel empty or scared. Makes the universe seem so much larger. Now I can ask "Where did we come from?" and "What's out there?" and have questions about the universe as a whole without feeling guilty or fearing burning in Hell for being curious. I'm not ready to die, but I don't fear it. Even if death is just an end to existence, what do I care? I'll be dead.
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#221    Armchair Educated

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 01:38 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 31 March 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

No harm to you but that has to be the biggest joke to date  and  its only an hour away  from  it being April Fools day lol  ... Posted Image

No atheist is going to sit and say - Hey I am atheist, but man I feel so depressed  and empty...to know there is nothing for me after this life...sigh... Who the heck comes out with that ?....If you chose to be atheist, you are not going to remain atheist if it makes you so depressed and empty  wondering about the afterlife?....  This does not make any sense ... and you make this the foundation for a thread
Question -  ................Why?

That is like a Christians guy saying - Hey I am a Christian...but sigh I feel so depressed being one..it sucks to follow Jesus and get nowhere....<-- Anyone would say Then don't be one...why  class yourself as something that depresses you?  Get over it and find something sensible to say  and to follow for that matter... !!

There must be a dozen of more threads  about Atheists  in the past few weeks  .. Like a collection... We could call this board - The Atheists greatest hits page  lol....   But this one takes the cookie...!!

I am sorry but I cannot believe your mini story in your OP, reason being is I just do not see  any logic in what you are saying....

Here is the thing - If someone  chooses  to be Atheist.. and it later makes them feel empty.. then don't you think they would  quit and move on to  oh I dunno  a belief  of some sort? Something that wont depress them?

This is why your OP makes no sense ..

lol OTT much
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#222    Old Man Waffles

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 02:54 PM

no we dont.

#223    _Only

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 03:25 PM

View PostSenseiWaffles, on 01 May 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

no we dont.

Is that a royal we?
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#224    Armchair Educated

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 03:48 PM

One mans definition of Full is different to anothers. Your definintion of pain depends on how much pain you have felt in your life, increase the pain and you have a better understanding of it.
a man who hasnt experienced god, cant comprehend or believe in a god. ( which is fair enuf, whos gunna believe in a god if you havent experienced him and think that your personal experience trumps other peoples personal experiences) smart people who gain alot of knowledge in their life, also gain self importance, being better than the average joe.
its harder for a smart person to think of a deity thats greater than them as that would involve humbling them selves to experience a deity. God wont reveal himself to a person whos self importance distracts them from sincerly wanting an audience with him. that moment in their lifes when they sit for a second and ask god in humility are you there? wont happen. instead they will ask god if hes there as a joke at the expense of others.
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#225    Euphorbia

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 04:17 PM

View PostArmchair Educated, on 01 May 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

One mans definition of Full is different to anothers. Your definintion of pain depends on how much pain you have felt in your life, increase the pain and you have a better understanding of it.
a man who hasnt experienced god, cant comprehend or believe in a god. ( which is fair enuf, whos gunna believe in a god if you havent experienced him and think that your personal experience trumps other peoples personal experiences) smart people who gain alot of knowledge in their life, also gain self importance, being better than the average joe.
its harder for a smart person to think of a deity thats greater than them as that would involve humbling them selves to experience a deity. God wont reveal himself to a person whos self importance distracts them from sincerly wanting an audience with him. that moment in their lifes when they sit for a second and ask god in humility are you there? wont happen. instead they will ask god if hes there as a joke at the expense of others.

Self importance? I have never believed in god.....ever. How could I "sincerely want an audience with him" when I don't believe? In order to ask god to reveal himself to you, you have to have some kind of belief in him to begin with.

You have a lot to learn about non-believers.......
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