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[Merged] The Kariong Glyphs


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#166    questionmark

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:12 PM

View PostArtemis Flow, on 06 April 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

The NPWS will be interested to learn the Hans and co. have been conducting illegal excavations and removing Aboriginal artifacts from the national park without permission , should the " basalt chisel " actually exist ( see the Ravings of a Madman pg 15 )
Basalt was mined nearby in the 1920's by Basalt Quarries Ltd and there are noted basalt " spurs" on private property within 5 km of this site.

http://trove.nla.gov...y&searchLimits=
http://dbforms.ga.go...r=stratno=20642
http://www.adderley....n/03/03_10.html

This fact makes a total mockery of the Ravings of a Madman by Hans Dieter Von Senff ( available on Google docs only because no one will publish it ) on pg 15.
I did print it out though , it's the long weekend and I'm out of toilet paper  :P

careful, printer ink is not wipe resistant :devil:

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#167    Artemis Flow

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:15 PM

Quote

see Post 159 for the latest and very clear nature of the authorship of Encyclopedia of Dubious Archaeology, by Kenneth L. Feder, although I am still mystified over why the authorship of this book is so important in your mind.

Could it be as simple as this , Hans is jealous because I have work published in a credible book and he doesn't ?

In that case " ner ner ner I have the ice cream ! "

runs away

Edited by Artemis Flow, 06 April 2012 - 08:17 PM.


#168    kmt_sesh

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:38 PM

View PostHarte, on 06 April 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

It's worse.  The mere act of receiving a communication from some outback nutjob actually establishes every possible claim as factual (apparently.)

Time for me to submit my claim that I am the rightful owner of all of Australasia and it's territorial waters.

After all, if I merely send this info to some Aussie minister, that proves my claim!

Again:

Posted Image

That's a pic of my great-grandpappy.

The above pic is all it takes to make this idiotic claim collapse into raucous laughter.  No need to argue about who wrote what excerpt from what book, or which Dutch chemist wants to pretend he has some knowledge of Ancient Egypt.

No, just the pic.  It'll do the trick.

Harte

Come on, Harte, hasn't anyone ever told you not to judge a book by it's cover? :w00t:

As ridiculous as the Anubis figure looks, that alone is not enough to rule  it as a forgery. Plenty of authentic Egyptian monuments reveal low-quality craftsmanship in figural composition. We have a display case at the Field in which we present fakes that worked their way into our collection, but some months ago a truly awful stela was pulled by an Egyptologist at the University of Chicago because she wanted a closer look. She determined that as bad as the stela looks (the figures in particular are poorly shaped) the stela is in fact authentic.

But despite the fact that this particular Anubis looks like he had been scratched into the wall by a sixth grader, a couple of things jump out at me. First, Anubis is shown wearing the robe of a Sem-priest (note the spots on the torso). I have to wonder if the hoaxer who etched this figure even knew what a Sem-priest in Egypt was, but to my knowledge Anubis is not displayed as a Sem-priest. Second, notice the ankh Anubis is clutching. It's barely recognizable as an ankh. Now that makes one automatically suspicious, and while the crudely formed ankh by itself does not necessarily scream "Fake!" one must wonder, if it's supposed to be authentic, an ancient Egyptian craftsman (even of low training) could do a better job with one of the most recognizable icons of his culture.

In total the rock etchings themselves scream "Fake!" There seems to be little to no observance of Dynasty 4 canon of proportions (or any pharaonic period of proportioning), but most of all these etchings are just a random scattering of hieroglyphs. The late Ray Johnson (the Australian version, mind you) and Hans-Dieter might have concocted elaborate "translations" for these glyphs, but rest assured there can be no doubt that the glyphs don't say anything at all. The only recognizable things are a couple of names.

LOL An actual ancient Egyptian who carved something like this would've been flogged immediately and never allowed to own a stylus, palette, or chisel ever again. :rolleyes:

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#169    Night Walker

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:35 AM

I came across something interesting:

These Australian researchers (Steve [Strong] and associates [Dr. Hans-Dieter von Senff]) have recently found a large skeleton which they think is over one hundred thousand years old and will soon be in the newspapers and change the history or Australia and the world; as well as a big astronomical configuration on the Blue Mountains and an axe over one hundred thousand years old ...

John Byrnes (Nov 27, 2011)


Source

It has already been established that these blokes (Strong, von Senff) are NOT archaeologists. So, isn’t it illegal to remove aboriginal/archaeological artefacts? And what about the skeleton? Shouldn’t the police be involved here?

Care to comment, Dr. Hans-Dieter von Senff?

Do you know anything more about this, Steve (you are a far more reliable source of information)? And who is John Byrnes?

Posted Image Yes! Canada's most fearsome predator. The Kodiak Marmoset – it's the world's largest smallest primate. "My God! He's killing us..."

The Yowie-ocalypse is upon us...

#170    Artemis Flow

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 08:12 AM

lol 6 degrees of separation

I know John Byrnes through a Google group called Elvina of which I am a member , he is a geologist and has an interest in the glyphs story and is compiling notes on the subject.
The page you have found is another Google group called OzArch , an email discussion group for Australian archaelogists , John is posting the latest waffle he has found to this group , I'm sure the info came from one of Strongs websites

I'm currently asking the Elvina group ( which is more inclined to local history , Aboriginal rock art and geology especially the Hawkesbury Sandstone that is abundant in this area www.elvina.info ) for more info on the " basalt chisel " Strong claims to have removed from the site illegally .
Strong and co have broken a few laws set by the NPWS Act of 1999 btw.
I suspect the chisel pictured is not what they claim it to be , it's probably not even Aboriginal and I doubt they actually found one there in the first place.

Strong and Von Senff gave 2 public talks at an obscure arts hall late last year , nothing has hit the news yet ! , people I know who went said it was an unprofessional rabble by both of them , some walked out.
Personally I haven't come across the skeleton story yet but have heard all the other crap from Strong like finding an Egyptian complex near the glyphs site

Another Elvina member is currently investigating Strongs claim that Australian Aborigines were the first humans


Quote

Thanks Steve

As I’ve been doing some genetic genealogy testing lately I’ve been attempting to follow up on the claims Steve Strong  made about aboriginals being the first nation.

My requests for references to the ‘recanting’ he said was going on by the original researchers came to nought: just refs back to their initial findings, not any subsequent contradictions.

As a distinctly NON-organic chemist / molecular biologist I have also been trying to understand to best of my ability the state of  current research on haplogroup origins  internationally.

Those of a more scientific bent might be interested in a major new peer reviewed article (6th Apr 2012- hot off the press!) at:

http://download.cell...termediate=true

on the use of human mtDNA phylogeny to establish deep ancestry, and advocate a recommended new reference point: The RSRS (Reconstructed Sapiens Reference Sequence.) in lieu of the rCRS.

Http://www.Phylotree.org  also shows no signs of absorbing Steven Strong’s claims: Perhaps another scientific conspiracy !  Their last (14th) Phylotree build was as recent as 5th April 2012.


Edited by Artemis Flow, 07 April 2012 - 09:10 AM.


#171    Artemis Flow

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 09:25 AM

Found the source of the info on the skeleton , its in the comments section on this page http://forgottenorigin.com/our-theory

Quote

kerry says:
June 10, 2011 at 9:21 pm (UTC 10)
Reply
I am an initiated Wiradjuri,
We have just discovered a skeleton suspected to be dated around 120,000 years old,
not far from where I live, at present this is being verified by several Archaeologists.
this is the greatest find in the history of Australia if not the World.
a healthy male of great build and strength, it will be in the News papers World wide very soon, and it will predate Mungo Man and Mungo Woman.
More and more will be found soon, and bought foward to be released to the outside World. Australia is awakening from a long sleep, what is found here in these Indigenous cultures, will shake the World.



#172    Night Walker

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:44 PM

View PostNight Walker, on 07 April 2012 - 05:35 AM, said:

Care to comment, Dr. Hans-Dieter von Senff?


Posted Image Yes! Canada's most fearsome predator. The Kodiak Marmoset – it's the world's largest smallest primate. "My God! He's killing us..."

The Yowie-ocalypse is upon us...

#173    Night Walker

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 09:15 PM

I came across another interesting site: The Secret Visitors Project

The Secret Visitors Project blog has been set up to support my PhD research at the University of Sydney into the role of pseudoarchaeology in Australian archaaeology.

Archaeologists believe that Australia was settled at least 50,000 years ago by the ancestors of the Aboriginal people.  Apart from the appearance of the dingo within the past 5,000 years or so there is no evidence that they necessarily had any contact with the remainder of the world, apart from their nearest neighbours.  More than a century of historical and archaeological investigation has developed this view and is supported by all of our human physiological, historical, genetic, linguistic, biological and geographical evidence.  Despite this, many people still believe that the Spanish, Portuguese, Egyptians, Chinese, Vikings and others  mapped, explored or even settled in Australia.  Why?

In this blog I look at the evidence that has been put forward in support of secret visitor claims by advocates over the past two centuries.  Much of it has never had a serious critical examination and, frankly, a lot of it doesn’t convince or survive well from a steady gaze.  We will also meet the people who have put these theories to the public.


On the Kariong Glyphs:

Sunday 11th December, 2011 Artsbarn 2 Dandaloo St Kariong, NSW, Australia. Steven will be accompanied by Dr. Hans-Dieter von Senff.

Father and son team Steven and Evan Strong have written several detailed works on why they believe that modern human evolution began with Australian Aboriginal people...

Dr. Hans-Dieter von Senff is the leading promoter of the authenticity of the Kariong engravings. Its not clear whether he will be speaking.

On the face of it there is little shared ground between the two – Strong is dealing with early human evolution and a refreshing twist on the usual diffusionist scenario.  Von Senff’s interest in the hieroglyphs, apart from some chronological issues, requires less a reversal of the current view and more a suspension of disbelief.

Not sure I can make it, but would love to hear from anyone who goes.


You should get in touch, Steve…

Posted Image Yes! Canada's most fearsome predator. The Kodiak Marmoset – it's the world's largest smallest primate. "My God! He's killing us..."

The Yowie-ocalypse is upon us...

#174    DKO

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:01 AM

There will always be psuedo archeologists in Australia I think, too many of them get bored with finding the same aboriginal painting/carvings.

Anyone remember the Portuguese rifle found on some island just off the coast of Australia? They went crazy saying the Portuguese colonised Australia. Turns out it was made in Indonesia during the 16th century and was pushed along the seabed by the tides.

Its possible they might find something Portuguese related since the Portuguese visited Papua New Guinea during the 15th century and possible something Javanese related since they most likely brang the dingoes here 10,000~ years ago.

But Egyptian is a whole different story.

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#175    Artemis Flow

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:48 AM

Nightwalker
Yes I have come across that site and I think he may already be connected to us via the Elvina group I belong to , he is a member of OzArch so that's where I may have first heard of him , I thought I might contact him after I got some feedback from my well placed moles who attended the fantasy fest at Kariong Arts Barn ( a community art workshop set up in a big old building ) last December but haven't as yet.

Anyway I do have some feedback and information in relation to the Basalt Chisel that Strong and Von Senff claim to have found near the glyphs site:

My contact is an experienced local Aboriginal rock art expert who has documented every Aboriginal site around the Kariong area and Central Coast , since 1960 he has located and recorded 6000 pages of information on Aboriginal art sites.
He is also a long time local who lives at Kariong and can attest the glyphs were not there as he played and rode horses in this area for all of his childhood years , last year he attended one of Strongs lectures....

Quote

Here is another reply to your email this time about the Egyptian Basalt chisel. All along *Bambara Road can be found these mysterious tools which are part of the basalt road fill that Gosford City Council once used on Bambara Road, there are many places in this district where basalt is to be found which has washed down from council road works. Dr Von Senff showed us this piece of road fill after his rubbishing talk at Kariong last year but would not admit he was wrong even after one of his detractors produced several other wonderful tools he had picked up from the edge of Bambara Road. Now I am pretty sure Bambara Road was not there 4000 years ago

Myth busted again Hans ....... just a bit of old rock , basalt with chew marks from a crusher plant at best  :lol: and your lucky for that because you might have copped a nasty fine from NPWS  B)

* Bambara Road is the nearest access road to the glyphs site.

DKO - it seems every town in Australia had it's own little mystery , you could write a book on them , and several people have! must be money in that  ^_^
I have read some pretty convincing accounts of lost Spanish and Portegese shipwrecks along the coast here http://www.stradbrok....com/index.html not sure how legit the info is as they are also pro Gympie Pyramid as well  :P


#176    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 06:04 AM

Artemis - if you can find a mystery for the Greater Caboolture/Morayfield area I'll investigate it ;)

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#177    Night Walker

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 01:44 AM

View PostArtemis Flow, on 08 April 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

Quote

Dr Von Senff showed us this piece of road fill after his rubbishing talk at Kariong last year but would not admit he was wrong even after one of his detractors produced several other wonderful tools he had picked up from the edge of Bambara Road.
This is one of the intriguing aspects of this subculture – NEVER admit to getting something wrong. They just keep digging themselves in further and further. The flip-side is that speaking with such confidence, conviction, and apparent authority does attract a following…


View PostArtemis Flow, on 08 April 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

I have read some pretty convincing accounts of lost Spanish and Portegese shipwrecks along the coast here http://www.stradbrok....com/index.html not sure how legit the info is as they are also pro Gympie Pyramid as well
A red flag if ever there was one…

Posted Image Yes! Canada's most fearsome predator. The Kodiak Marmoset – it's the world's largest smallest primate. "My God! He's killing us..."

The Yowie-ocalypse is upon us...

#178    Night Walker

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:20 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 08 April 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

Artemis - if you can find a mystery for the Greater Caboolture/Morayfield area I'll investigate it ;)
I got one:

The Lost Ruins of Clear Mountain

Rumour has it that Clear Mountain, north of Brisbane, was so named because large areas of it were found by pioneers to be cleared of vegetation and containing temple-like stone structures including a clear crystal altar. Many of the structures were dismantled for local projects but cattle refused to graze there until US military, stationed nearby in WW2, were encouraged to use the mountain and remaining structures for target practice.

Now, largely overgrown, Clear Mountain remains a place of foreboding – especially after dark…

Posted Image

Posted Image Yes! Canada's most fearsome predator. The Kodiak Marmoset – it's the world's largest smallest primate. "My God! He's killing us..."

The Yowie-ocalypse is upon us...

#179    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:42 AM

Hmmm, might go exploring next week ;)

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#180    Artemis Flow

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:43 AM

Theres a fair bit of old WW2 bunker and base action around in that area , bit of a bunker buster meself www.ozatwar.com is a good place to start looking for all that

meanwhile news from my mole .........


Quote

Steve.

Yesterday I went over to Bambara Road, I set off on my own; about ¾ km down the track I met up with the Good Doctor Von Senff struggling along on the way there. He did not know who I was and I was forced to listen to the B+++ S+++ as he explained all about this miraculous stuff to a lady who had the misfortune to be walking there too and had accompanied him. When we arrived at the Heiro site we never went up into that cleft but I showed him two sets of spurious drawings about 50 m away one of which is a very modern looking drawing of a scorpion and is only about 2 mm deep, he obviously did not know of these carvings and eagerly climbed up to view them. Of course he instantly translated them to mean something about digging under there to find yet another chamber. I spoke with the lady later for a time and she was not in any way convinced by the good doctor’s spiel and wondered herself as to how these small drawings which were not deep could have survived for several thousand years. “Oh No” I thought “Not another skeptic” We then set off back to the road and the good doctor was blowing very hard at this time due to being so unfit so he could not expound his theories on us any more which was a Godsend I can tell you.
I have enclosed a photograph of the man with the boomerangs a diagram of the *site can be found on page 105 of ABORIGINAL CARVINGS OF PORT JACKSON AND BROKEN BAY by William Dugald Campbell published by Govt Printer in 1899. I sent this photograph also to Steven Strong when he was compiling his article for Nat Indigenous Times newspaper but he chose to use his very inaccurate drawing instead which looked ‘more Egyptian’ so consequently I have had nothing more to do with Steven Strong as he chose to not let the facts get in the way of his story. This is the type of sensationalistic rubbish which brings people to believe all this type of crap

XXX
* Nearby Aboriginal site

Edited by Artemis Flow, 12 April 2012 - 12:03 PM.





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