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Easter, should Christians celebrate it?


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#31    Jor-el

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 09:38 PM

View PostChloeB, on 03 April 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

Constantine, what a prick!  I went to an Ostara ritual once, Jorel.  It didn't feel evil or bad, they even gave us bubbles.  But I'm not a Christian, but there's a part of me that kind of likes that you admit Easter is what it is, but do feel the same about Christmas?  He wasn't born then.  You know to me, if they were going to put the birth and crucifixion on Pagan holidays, they should have put the birth on Easter and the crucifixion on Christmas, the death of the sun, but that's just me.  This is to me my impression of the differences in Christianity and Paganism.......Paganism is about life and this life and appreciating and celebrating the cycles of it, and Christianity, well it's about death and shunning this world that is Satan's world and all it's temptations and allure and to focus on death, what happens after death, all the good stuff and treats come then.  Pagans get chocolate bunnies now, Christians get infinite endless chocolate if they don't get too hung up on the earth and it's people and just try to think about Jesus and God all the time.  So Easter is a celebration of life and mother earth and her cycles, probably not what Christians ought to be doing, which is a shame, but you guys know what I think about it.  I think the way the Pagans have the Mother Goddess is awesome, probably the most spiritual connected I've ever felt is with that.

I have had to swallow some bitter pills in delving into the past of christianity. While christianity might not have become the major religion it is now, at least it would have had a honest past if these gentlemen had not corrupted so much of it. Yes Constantine and his cohorts were all p....s.

And yes the same goes for christmas as well, it is a blatant usurpation of pagan themes and rituals. And in usurping these rituals, christians have lost most of their roots to falsehood. For those of us who actually go to the trouble of analysing the bible, we can come up with solid dates for the events of Jesus life without doing any inventing, it is all there, and in so doing, the bible suddenly moves from the realm of myth, to that of history.

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#32    psyche101

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:22 AM

Wouldn't lent separate the Christian Easter form the pagan easter significantly? It is not about eggs and Easter marks the end of lent, and though the egg represents "new life" was that always the case with Christianity or was it introduced with marketing?

Also, eggs were originally forbidden during Lent as well as on other traditional fast days in Western Christianity, a tradition still continued among the Eastern Christian Churches. As such, an egg might be reviewed as a reward for the abstinence. Could it not possibly be a co-incidence? Zoroastrians painted eggs for Nowrooz,which was a different time of year, is this related as well? Some will dye eggs to represent the blood of Christ, and the hard shell of the egg symbolised the sealed Tomb of Christ the cracking of which symbolised His resurrection from the dead. Eggs are quite common and man has always seen them as a good and easy source of food, is it possible that is is just a co-incidence?

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:32 AM

Although not being religious, I was always told that Easter was celebrated as the day that Jesus rose from death (sounds a tad zombie-ish to me :P), thus proving that he was the son of god (or something along those lines).

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#34    ZaraKitty

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 05:36 AM

This is the same as 'should athiests celebrate christmas'. Nowdays it has become more of a social gathering of loved ones rather than a worship day.

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#35    JGirl

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:06 AM

i bake a ham and we invite my daughter and grandkids, a bachelor friend of ours and whoever else is alone on the holiday that we know.
this is the extent of my celebrating easter. sometimes i will take advantage of sales on chocolate (i cannot resist the chocolate)
i don't really care all that much about holidays - heck i don't even celebrate my birthday.


#36    eight bits

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:31 AM

Quote

Although not being religious, I was always told that Easter was celebrated as the day that Jesus rose from death (sounds a tad zombie-ish to me )
Yes, that is why the question of whether Christians may wish to celebrate the occasion comes up in the first place.

Quote

..., thus proving that he was the son of god (or something along those lines).
This is the characteristically Protestant view of the event. Compared with the majority of Christians, Protestants place a great deal of emphasis on personal belief, specifically the belief that Jesus, by his death, accomplished the work necessary for a Protestant's personal salvation.

Anything that happens after Jesus' death, then, can only be important because it affects a Protestant's belief that Jesus' work had already been completed. In this case, an unusual reappearance may have been offered as a  "proof" that Jesus is a person of divine stature.

The secondary significance given to the event in the minority perspective, and that believing the proof is hardly less of a stretch than believing what it supposedly proves, help to explain the relative willingness of Protestants to abandon the celebration, or to celebrate what they reckon to be the principal Jewish Passover day instead, looking for a more immediate commemoration of what is most important to them, Jesus' death.

For the majority of Christians, however, the Resurrection is an intervention by their God in history which is significant in its own right, and carries an importance independent of whether anybody believes it or not, or believes something else because of it. This complements the majority's view that belief is neither necessary nor sufficient for personal salvation anyway.

The majority does see Jesus' death as having been necessary, and so worthy of commemoration. Since there is an obvious way to integrate commemoration of both events, and for the majority, the events are each incomplete without the other, that's what the majority do, celebrate a liturgical unit, Holy Week.

Both Rabbinical Judaism and Christianity (especially the majority, but many Protestants agree here) present themselves as rival legitimate successors to the Second Temple Judaism that definitvely ceased to function in 70 CE. It is utterly unremarkable that these independent Jewish-heritage movements should now disagree about the date for Passover (which is typically the  word for "Easter" in the Romance and Greek-influenced languages). Christians disagree among themselves. Orthodox Easter is a week later than Roman Easter this year, for example.

Of course, anyone may profess that one rival is "more legitimate" as a successor than another, and so that rival's date for the indisputably Jewish feast of Passover is "correct." Fine. It's not like there're any Second Temple Jews around to tell you you're worng.

It is perfectly obvious that the origins of the feast are Jewish, and so therefore by definition not pagan. That speakers of Germanic languages, such as English, call the integrated Passver feast an old word for the pagan spring festival has the same significance as that they call YHWH an old word for generic pagan divinity. None. Gott doesn't make YHWH pagan, calling the Pasch Easter doesn't make it pagan, either.

The proliferation of birds' eggs are an enviromental fact at this time of year in the Northern Hemisphere. I respect people's religions, but there's nothing that invests any human being, or any group of human beings, with ownership of a fact.

There aren't "pagan facts" or "Christian facts" or "atheist facts." There are just facts. Eggs are appropriate to the season because they are objective features of it, not because of the religious views of some of the people who noticed the same facts that everybody else notices, too.

I'd discuss bunnies, but this is a family-oriented forum. I suppose you could say the image is "fertility." Sort of.

In any case, Jesus didn't speak a Germanic language, and the word Easter has nothing to do with him. He didn't hand out chocolates, so if his followers do this today, they do it for some other reason than commemorating his passion and return.

Christian bashers (and accommodationist living Christians) lambaste ancient Christians for having killed pagans over folk customs, and lambaste them again for having left pagans alone to practice their folk customs. Christians are damned if they did and damned if they didn't. Sweet, but it's patently BS.

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#37    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:19 PM

Why can't Easter just be a nice  time?


Who cares if it is pagan  or Christian or about chocolate... ?


Easter is a nice time for kids who like to get their eggs and even take part in Easter games and egg painting...    It is a time for people to attend their special Church service

It is a time for others to get time off work and spend time with family or friends...

Have a nice dinner...    Just enjoy yourself.. and not sit  and worry if it is pagan or not really Christian...  I find these arguments   a waste ...No offence..But  people will view it as they see fit..

So..........I would like to wish anyone  reading, whether you are religious  or non religious  a ......

  HAPPY EASTER   
Now I still have chocolate eggs to buy and a new outfit for Becky...and no doubt  paint eggs again this year...  We have already sat and made some nice hand made cards....  Its fun


Edited by Beckys_Mom, 04 April 2012 - 02:20 PM.

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#38    designer

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 04:00 PM

no they shouldn't, why not celebrate Passover instead. It's biblical.

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#39    Karlis

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 04:58 PM

View Postdesigner, on 04 April 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

~~~ ... why not celebrate Passover instead. It's biblical.
You mean, follow Bible teachings, as opposed to traditions of men? Actually, Jesus et al did just that. :)


#40    Jor-el

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:05 PM

View Posteight bits, on 04 April 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Yes, that is why the question of whether Christians may wish to celebrate the occasion comes up in the first place.

This is the characteristically Protestant view of the event. Compared with the majority of Christians, Protestants place a great deal of emphasis on personal belief, specifically the belief that Jesus, by his death, accomplished the work necessary for a Protestant's personal salvation.

Anything that happens after Jesus' death, then, can only be important because it affects a Protestant's belief that Jesus' work had already been completed. In this case, an unusual reappearance may have been offered as a  "proof" that Jesus is a person of divine stature.

The secondary significance given to the event in the minority perspective, and that believing the proof is hardly less of a stretch than believing what it supposedly proves, help to explain the relative willingness of Protestants to abandon the celebration, or to celebrate what they reckon to be the principal Jewish Passover day instead, looking for a more immediate commemoration of what is most important to them, Jesus' death.

For the majority of Christians, however, the Resurrection is an intervention by their God in history which is significant in its own right, and carries an importance independent of whether anybody believes it or not, or believes something else because of it. This complements the majority's view that belief is neither necessary nor sufficient for personal salvation anyway.

The majority does see Jesus' death as having been necessary, and so worthy of commemoration. Since there is an obvious way to integrate commemoration of both events, and for the majority, the events are each incomplete without the other, that's what the majority do, celebrate a liturgical unit, Holy Week.

Both Rabbinical Judaism and Christianity (especially the majority, but many Protestants agree here) present themselves as rival legitimate successors to the Second Temple Judaism that definitvely ceased to function in 70 CE. It is utterly unremarkable that these independent Jewish-heritage movements should now disagree about the date for Passover (which is typically the  word for "Easter" in the Romance and Greek-influenced languages). Christians disagree among themselves. Orthodox Easter is a week later than Roman Easter this year, for example.

I have a number of issues with your view, none of them major, but I believe they are in need of clarification.

1st, Protestants like all other christians do not amphasize the death of Jesus more than his resurrection, which is what I gathered from your post. They pay as much attention to the resurrection if not more than many other christians. It is one of the main reason why we don't really use crucifixes in our churches, we use the empty cross, symbolizing that Jesus is not there anymore, that he arose.

Without the resurrection, the death becomes meaningless, because there would be no ultimate victory over death and sin.

2nd, the willingness of a number of christians to abandon the Easter celebration is not just because it has become meaningless with its modern symbology of having a good time with the family (along with the chocolate bunnies and eggs), but rather that it has always been meaningless, since the christian church purposefully changed the date so that it would NOT coincide with the Jewish Passover. It was a decision based mainly on an ancient anti-semitical view of Jews, as well as a supposedly logical need for the christian church to affirm its independence from its Jewish roots. Something I am sure God frowned upon from the 1st moment of said decisions.

It coalesced into an official doctrine of the church, cheered on by Constantine himself in and around the time of the Council of Nicaea, but it started soon after the beginning of the 2nd century, when christians and Jews started having problems with one another.

3rd, No-one disagrees with the date of Passover, that has remained unchanged over the last 3,300 years or so. What did change was the purposeful alteration of the passover feast within the christian church, Passover is a 7 day event, it is also called the Feast of unleavened Bread.

14th Nisan, Day 0 - sundown Tuesday to sundown Wednesday - Erev Pesach (the day before the Sabbath), Preperation day, The night of the Last Supper. The day Jesus was crucified.
15th Nisan, Day 1 - sundown Wednesday to sundown Thursday - Pesach I (Passover), 1st day of Unleavened Bread.
16th Nisan, Day 2 - sundown Thursday to sundown Friday - Pesach II, 2nd day of Unleavened Bread
17th Nisan, Day 3 - sundown Friday to sundown Saturday - Pesach III, Sixth day Sabbath, 3rd day of Unleavened Bread
18th Nisan, Day 4 - Pesach IV, The day of Firstfruits, Resurrection in the early Morning.  In rising from the dead, Jesus became the first-fruits of all those who die and yet will be resurrected to live forever.

Passover is always on Nisan 15th, it never changes. Can we say the same for Easter?

4th, Christians do not agree among themselves for a number of reasons. One of these is a dating problem which arose because of the Gregorian calendar reform. The Orthodox Church refused to alter their feast days to acknowledge the 10 days dropped from the Gregorian Calendar by the West. The also calculated Easter differently from the Western Church, being in my opinion, slightly more accurate than their counter-parts in the west. And it could all have been avoided if they had simply followed biblical custom as demonstrated by the Jews.

Quote

Of course, anyone may profess that one rival is "more legitimate" as a successor than another, and so that rival's date for the indisputably Jewish feast of Passover is "correct." Fine. It's not like there're any Second Temple Jews around to tell you you're worng.

They don't need the Second Temple for that, Their calendar has not changed for thousands of years. The average Hebrew year is slower than the average solar year by about one day in every 216 years. That means that today, we celebrate the holidays, on average about 8 days later than did our ancestors in 359 C.E. at the time that the fixed calendar rules were published.

Quote

It is perfectly obvious that the origins of the feast are Jewish, and so therefore by definition not pagan. That speakers of Germanic languages, such as English, call the integrated Passver feast an old word for the pagan spring festival has the same significance as that they call YHWH an old word for generic pagan divinity. None. Gott doesn't make YHWH pagan, calling the Pasch Easter doesn't make it pagan, either.

As you say the Feast is Jewish, but its called Passover not Easter. Easter isn't Jewish or christian for that matter, it is an invention by the church, taking over a pagan festival that already existed, called Ostara which celebrated the Vernal Equinox. The Church laid a thin veneer of christian information over these days, thereby legitimizing the continued pagan practices of local populations, instead of keeping the faith.

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#41    spud the mackem

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:06 PM

Easter hols change every year ?...Is it something to do with the seasons or set by the church ? who cares you have a couple of days off,so dont go and spoil it OK....Happy Easter to all those people who know what its about, One of the posts above said that the Greeks had the 1st alphabet, well dont forget the Chinese who were writing stuff and had an alphabet around 4500 yrs ago,I think that beats the Greeks by a couple of weeks or so....

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#42    spud the mackem

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:25 PM

View Posteight bits, on 04 April 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Yes, that is why the question of whether Christians may wish to celebrate the occasion comes up in the first place.


This is the characteristically Protestant view of the event. Compared with the majority of Christians, Protestants place a great deal of emphasis on personal belief, specifically the belief that Jesus, by his death, accomplished the work necessary for a Protestant's personal salvation.

Anything that happens after Jesus' death, then, can only be important because it affects a Protestant's belief that Jesus' work had already been completed. In this case, an unusual reappearance may have been offered as a  "proof" that Jesus is a person of divine stature.

The secondary significance given to the event in the minority perspective, and that believing the proof is hardly less of a stretch than believing what it supposedly proves, help to explain the relative willingness of Protestants to abandon the celebration, or to celebrate what they reckon to be the principal Jewish Passover day instead, looking for a more immediate commemoration of what is most important to them, Jesus' death.

For the majority of Christians, however, the Resurrection is an intervention by their God in history which is significant in its own right, and carries an importance independent of whether anybody believes it or not, or believes something else because of it. This complements the majority's view that belief is neither necessary nor sufficient for personal salvation anyway.

The majority does see Jesus' death as having been necessary, and so worthy of commemoration. Since there is an obvious way to integrate commemoration of both events, and for the majority, the events are each incomplete without the other, that's what the majority do, celebrate a liturgical unit, Holy Week.

Both Rabbinical Judaism and Christianity (especially the majority, but many Protestants agree here) present themselves as rival legitimate successors to the Second Temple Judaism that definitvely ceased to function in 70 CE. It is utterly unremarkable that these independent Jewish-heritage movements should now disagree about the date for Passover (which is typically the  word for "Easter" in the Romance and Greek-influenced languages). Christians disagree among themselves. Orthodox Easter is a week later than Roman Easter this year, for example.

Of course, anyone may profess that one rival is "more legitimate" as a successor than another, and so that rival's date for the indisputably Jewish feast of Passover is "correct." Fine. It's not like there're any Second Temple Jews around to tell you you're worng.

It is perfectly obvious that the origins of the feast are Jewish, and so therefore by definition not pagan. That speakers of Germanic languages, such as English, call the integrated Passver feast an old word for the pagan spring festival has the same significance as that they call YHWH an old word for generic pagan divinity. None. Gott doesn't make YHWH pagan, calling the Pasch Easter doesn't make it pagan, either.

The proliferation of birds' eggs are an enviromental fact at this time of year in the Northern Hemisphere. I respect people's religions, but there's nothing that invests any human being, or any group of human beings, with ownership of a fact.

There aren't "pagan facts" or "Christian facts" or "atheist facts." There are just facts. Eggs are appropriate to the season because they are objective features of it, not because of the religious views of some of the people who noticed the same facts that everybody else notices, too.

I'd discuss bunnies, but this is a family-oriented forum. I suppose you could say the image is "fertility." Sort of.

In any case, Jesus didn't speak a Germanic language, and the word Easter has nothing to do with him. He didn't hand out chocolates, so if his followers do this today, they do it for some other reason than commemorating his passion and return.

Christian bashers (and accommodationist living Christians) lambaste ancient Christians for having killed pagans over folk customs, and lambaste them again for having left pagans alone to practice their folk customs. Christians are damned if they did and damned if they didn't. Sweet, but it's patently BS.
That was one 'ell of a post you just made,but can I remind you that Protestants were Catholics until old Henry VIII, of England,fell ,out with the Pope, and the Protestants were "born",then the poor old Catholics became outcasts,on Henry's orders...then along ,came John Wesley and the Methodists were born and so it goes on all and sundry jumped on the band wagon,so now there is a couple of hundred different versions,who quote the Bible to their own ends,to suit their own views.I dont "Bash" any religion if it suits you go for it but  dont knock other people giving their versions....

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#43    DingoLingo

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:53 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 04 April 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:



or about chocolate... ?


Wash your mouth out ... its always about the chocolate So Speaketh the Chocoholic


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Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:04 AM

View Postspud the mackem, on 04 April 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

That was one 'ell of a post you just made,but can I remind you that Protestants were Catholics until old Henry VIII, of England,fell ,out with the Pope, and the Protestants were "born",then the poor old Catholics became outcasts,on Henry's orders...then along ,came John Wesley and the Methodists were born and so it goes on all and sundry jumped on the band wagon,so now there is a couple of hundred different versions,who quote the Bible to their own ends,to suit their own views.I dont "Bash" any religion if it suits you go for it but  dont knock other people giving their versions....
Actually, I think you'll find some such as Martin Luther to bear much more responsibility for the Protestant Reformation.  Henry VIII jumped on the Protestant bandwagon more than a decade after Luther first challenged the Catholic Church.  And I don't think Henry ever personally changed anything about Catholicism during his time, he simply appointed himself the head of the Church of England in order to approve of his penchant for divorce, thus causing a split with Rome.

Sorry for splitting hairs, I just thought I'd clarify matters :tu:

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 01:13 AM

I'm going to be honest, I never have a clue when Easter is.  I was even more clueless when I found out the other night at work that we get the day off on Sunday.  They laughed in disbelief that I had no idea to which I had to explain that I don't celebrate Easter.

Sooo...that really has nothing to do with the original question and I apologize for interjecting.

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