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Marine Sgt. Gary Stein faces discharge


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#31    eqgumby

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 05:00 PM

View PostDredimus, on 06 April 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Never mind that he is still a citizen of the united states... that has fought for the united states... we can leave that aside... but you think he should have his whole life destroyed over his expressed opinions? A Dishonorable Discharge is no joke... he will never be able to work in a field that requires a security clearance... and most employers see that on your DD-214 and its an automatic No Hire.
Well, you should know as well as anyone, that when we enter military service, in particular in the US, that we give up many of our "rights" under the constitution.

In addition, he seems to have been warned at least once to cease and desist, but decided his constitutional rights trumped his responsibilities as a member of the armed services and a US Marine.

All military members may express their opinions in a civilian capacity, but this individual expressed his AS a member of the armed services. There is a huge difference.

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#32    preacherman76

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:43 PM

View Posteqgumby, on 09 April 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

Well, you should know as well as anyone, that when we enter military service, in particular in the US, that we give up many of our "rights" under the constitution.

In addition, he seems to have been warned at least once to cease and desist, but decided his constitutional rights trumped his responsibilities as a member of the armed services and a US Marine.

All military members may express their opinions in a civilian capacity, but this individual expressed his AS a member of the armed services. There is a huge difference.


He has a constitutional right to express himself out of uniform.

We are talking about a government who has ordered Marines to protect poppy fields. They have trained to disarm Americans, and have even gone so far as to do exactly that during Katrina. On high land, where there wasnt even a problem. We have bombed cities full of innocent non combative civilians, without constitutional authority. The government has ordered our good men and women to violate the constitutional oath they took when joining the service. For them to not speak out would be a moral violation. If our government would just confine themselfs to the constitutional oath they took when entering thier office, there wouldnt be a problem. Our service members swore to defend this country from all enemies, including domestic. We should be thankful to those who expose tyranny. We should also be thankful all these service member are only speaking, instead of declaring war on the criminals in office.

Through freedom stripping unconstitutional legislation this government has waged a war against the American people. They have alined themselfs with banks, to big to fail companies, the private federal reserve, and the military industrial complex. Why would we not hold them to the same stardard some here want to hold this soldier to? He has done far less (if anything at all) to break the laws of this land then the people who run this country. How does a soldier protect this nation from a domestic enemy, if he cant even speak about it?

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#33    Babe Ruth

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:47 PM

Outstanding post, Preacherman!  :yes:


#34    eqgumby

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:33 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 10 April 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

He has a constitutional right to express himself out of uniform.

We are talking about a government who has ordered Marines to protect poppy fields. They have trained to disarm Americans, and have even gone so far as to do exactly that during Katrina. On high land, where there wasnt even a problem. We have bombed cities full of innocent non combative civilians, without constitutional authority. The government has ordered our good men and women to violate the constitutional oath they took when joining the service. For them to not speak out would be a moral violation. If our government would just confine themselfs to the constitutional oath they took when entering thier office, there wouldnt be a problem. Our service members swore to defend this country from all enemies, including domestic. We should be thankful to those who expose tyranny. We should also be thankful all these service member are only speaking, instead of declaring war on the criminals in office.

Through freedom stripping unconstitutional legislation this government has waged a war against the American people. They have alined themselfs with banks, to big to fail companies, the private federal reserve, and the military industrial complex. Why would we not hold them to the same stardard some here want to hold this soldier to? He has done far less (if anything at all) to break the laws of this land then the people who run this country. How does a soldier protect this nation from a domestic enemy, if he cant even speak about it?
You're making an assortment of assumptions, and claims. This is not about those claims. This is about a Marine making comments as a Marine, about his behavior and his opinion in his capacity as a Marine. As a Marine, he does NOT have those constitutional rights. He does have the right to disobey an unlawful order, and have that act judged at a later date by a group of his military superiors and peers.

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#35    Cassea

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:01 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 10 April 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

He has a constitutional right to express himself out of uniform.

We are talking about a government who has ordered Marines to protect poppy fields. They have trained to disarm Americans, and have even gone so far as to do exactly that during Katrina. On high land, where there wasnt even a problem. We have bombed cities full of innocent non combative civilians, without constitutional authority. The government has ordered our good men and women to violate the constitutional oath they took when joining the service. For them to not speak out would be a moral violation. If our government would just confine themselfs to the constitutional oath they took when entering thier office, there wouldnt be a problem. Our service members swore to defend this country from all enemies, including domestic. We should be thankful to those who expose tyranny. We should also be thankful all these service member are only speaking, instead of declaring war on the criminals in office.

Through freedom stripping unconstitutional legislation this government has waged a war against the American people. They have alined themselfs with banks, to big to fail companies, the private federal reserve, and the military industrial complex. Why would we not hold them to the same stardard some here want to hold this soldier to? He has done far less (if anything at all) to break the laws of this land then the people who run this country. How does a soldier protect this nation from a domestic enemy, if he cant even speak about it?


There are ways he can express himself without outright refusing to obey the Commander in Chief.  This sort of reaction is reflective of the impatient individual who thinks his or her interpretation and perspective are 100% correct and others are wrong.  They desire immediacy to reconcile their feelings.  No country is without its mistakes.  No military operation is without its mistakes.   It is not up to the individual to try to force change by going public with his concerns if he is in the military.  If he doesn't agree with the military he has the right to ask to be discharged.  However people want to have their cake and eat it too.  This is what is annoying.

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#36    preacherman76

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:11 PM

View Posteqgumby, on 10 April 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

You're making an assortment of assumptions, and claims. This is not about those claims. This is about a Marine making comments as a Marine, about his behavior and his opinion in his capacity as a Marine. As a Marine, he does NOT have those constitutional rights. He does have the right to disobey an unlawful order, and have that act judged at a later date by a group of his military superiors and peers.


No, this is about a marine making comments in civilian clothes regarding the over-reach of power by our federal government. He is fully within his right to do so. You can say it isnt about those claims, but without them, and other claims, he wouldnt have said what he did.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#37    questionmark

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:14 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 10 April 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

No, this is about a marine making comments in civilian clothes regarding the over-reach of power by our federal government. He is fully within his right to do so. You can say it isnt about those claims, but without them, and other claims, he wouldnt have said what he did.

Not as long as he identifies him,self as member of the armed forces. That violates at least a dozen UCMJ rules, the first is making a statement as Marine NOT wearing the uniform.

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#38    preacherman76

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:15 PM

View PostCassea, on 10 April 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

There are ways he can express himself without outright refusing to obey the Commander in Chief.  This sort of reaction is reflective of the impatient individual who thinks his or her interpretation and perspective are 100% correct and others are wrong.  They desire immediacy to reconcile their feelings.  No country is without its mistakes.  No military operation is without its mistakes.   It is not up to the individual to try to force change by going public with his concerns if he is in the military.  If he doesn't agree with the military he has the right to ask to be discharged.  However people want to have their cake and eat it too.  This is what is annoying.


This has nothing to do with mistakes. This has to do with our government willfuly violating the very document they swore to protect. It isnt a matter of interpretation. Cause the constitution leaves no room for half the freedom stripping legislation brought on by this and other administrations. Why dont you hold this administration to the same standards you hold for this soldier? Who technicaly did nothing wrong

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#39    preacherman76

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:19 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 10 April 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

Not as long as he identifies him,self as member of the armed forces. That violates at least a dozen UCMJ rules, the first is making a statement as Marine NOT wearing the uniform.

He didnt do anything but expose the truth. I see nothing but honor in what he did. The people who want to silence him do so that thier crimes wont be exposed. Thats where evil florishes, in the dark. What has this man seen or heard that would make him even talk about armed forces disarming the American people? But no, we'd rather kill the messanger.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#40    questionmark

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:29 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 10 April 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

He didnt do anything but expose the truth. I see nothing but honor in what he did. The people who want to silence him do so that thier crimes wont be exposed. Thats where evil florishes, in the dark. What has this man seen or heard that would make him even talk about armed forces disarming the American people? But no, we'd rather kill the messanger.

Breaching discipline, as a member of the military, always has consequences. And in this case there was no message, there was somebody who knew the rules and chose to disobey them to make a political statement. If you make choices you have to face the music. As simple as that.

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#41    Corp

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:40 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 07 April 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Great story!  Kinda like Oath Keepers.  :yes:

It's good to see the citizen stand up to the govt.  As a soldier he did not have to accept an illegal order, as it were.

But it goes to show the Obama Unitary Executive prowess!

He serves the same people Bush did, is my bet.  :P

How does this have anything to do with Obama? He didn't fire this guy. The Marine violated military rules and got nailed for it. He got nailed rather harshly, though perhaps he's done this kind of thing a few times before and was out of warnings. Or maybe the military wanted to make an example of him, sick of soldiers giving people the belief that the government is going to kill them off any day now.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#42    eqgumby

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:43 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 10 April 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

He didnt do anything but expose the truth. I see nothing but honor in what he did. The people who want to silence him do so that thier crimes wont be exposed. Thats where evil florishes, in the dark. What has this man seen or heard that would make him even talk about armed forces disarming the American people? But no, we'd rather kill the messanger.
Says you.
He clearly violated the UCMJ by representing as a Marine and making these statements, as a Marine. Period. End of story. Read the UCMJ. The UCMJ which, by the way, has been around for a long time.
You turning this into some conspiracy theory is absurd.

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#43    preacherman76

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:46 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 10 April 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Breaching discipline, as a member of the military, always has consequences. And in this case there was no message, there was somebody who knew the rules and chose to disobey them to make a political statement. If you make choices you have to face the music. As simple as that.


Unless you are the king. Then you can breach the highest laws in the land, and if desired send to prison or discharge, or repremand anyone that questions your authority. Or points out the fact that they are being trained to violate some of the very principles that led them to join the service to begin with. Not everyone has to face the music. 0bama is at least in part responcible for 30,000 dead lybians, in a direct violation of our constitution. Directly took his orders from foreign banks. Or do you think its a coincidence that within the first week of the take over, while much of lybia is still in ruins, that they found the time and resources to build a central bank?


This man has a obligation to stand against domestic enemies. AGAIN I ask, why shouldnt this administration be held to the same standard as you'd have this soldier held to? Why?

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#44    questionmark

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:51 PM

View PostCorp, on 10 April 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

How does this have anything to do with Obama? He didn't fire this guy. The Marine violated military rules and got nailed for it. He got nailed rather harshly, though perhaps he's done this kind of thing a few times before and was out of warnings. Or maybe the military wanted to make an example of him, sick of soldiers giving people the belief that the government is going to kill them off any day now.

There is something about that. Somebody above said something about blogs and similar, after checking up on some I have to conclude that the forces do have a discipline problem when it comes to non-political partisanship. We can expect that the reaction will be as it always is in cases like this: you cut of the heads of those sticking out the most. This one surely was a foot higher than the others.

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#45    preacherman76

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:53 PM

View Posteqgumby, on 10 April 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Says you.
He clearly violated the UCMJ by representing as a Marine and making these statements, as a Marine. Period. End of story. Read the UCMJ. The UCMJ which, by the way, has been around for a long time.
You turning this into some conspiracy theory is absurd.


I didnt make a statement, I asked a question. Asking why this man feels the need to declare he wont obey unlawful orders, like disarming the American people, had to come from somewhere. Why should it be "absurd" to question why he said that? I dont understand why you want to lay the hammer on this guy without even questioning why he said what he did. 0bama has become a enemy to the American people. This man took a oath to defend us from such people.

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