Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Did Shroud of Turin Spread Christianity?


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#16    Karlis

Karlis

  • Member
  • 8,614 posts
  • Joined:19 Jul 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:06 AM

View PostParacelse, on 09 April 2012 - 06:08 AM, said:

Lily the shroud remains the greatest mystery because no one is allow to study it.  Keeping it as a mystery is a great political move.
Paracelse, actually the Turin Shroud is regarded as being, "... one of the most studied artifacts in human history, and one of the most controversial." :tu:
Consider just a few sources:

In 1978 one hundred and twenty hours of scientific studies of the Shroud were conducted.  Activities included visible, ultraviolet and infrared spectroscopy light, ultraviolet and phase microscopy, infrared thermography, x-radiographic imaging, electron microscopy, computer analysis, photographic imaging with special films, microchemical analysis, etc. -- Frederick T. Zugibe, M.D., "The Cross and the Shroud", (New York: Paragon House) (Revised ed., 1988), 119 - 122.



Radiocarbon Dating of the Shroud of Turin 1988
Very small samples from the Shroud of Turin have been dated by accelerator mass spectrometry in laboratories at Arizona, Oxford and Zurich.  As Controls, three samples whose ages had been determined independently were also dated.  The results provide conclusive evidence that the linen of the Shroud of Turin is mediaeval.
Source



... Scientific and popular publications have presented diverse arguments for both authenticity and possible methods of forgery. A variety of scientific theories regarding the shroud have since been proposed, based on disciplines ranging from chemistry to biology and medical forensics to optical image analysis. According to former Nature editor Philip Ball, "it's fair to say that, despite the seemingly definitive tests in 1988, the status of the Shroud of Turin is murkier than ever. Not least, the nature of the image and how it was fixed on the cloth remain deeply puzzling".[6] The shroud is one of the most studied artifacts in human history, and one of the most controversial.
Source


Edited by Karlis, 09 April 2012 - 09:12 AM.


#17    Paracelse

Paracelse

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,074 posts
  • Joined:02 Mar 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France

Posted 09 April 2012 - 12:54 PM

View PostKarlis, on 09 April 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Paracelse, actually the Turin Shroud is regarded as being, "... one of the most studied artifacts in human history, and one of the most controversial." :tu:
Consider just a few sources:

In 1978 one hundred and twenty hours of scientific studies of the Shroud were conducted.  Activities included visible, ultraviolet and infrared spectroscopy light, ultraviolet and phase microscopy, infrared thermography, x-radiographic imaging, electron microscopy, computer analysis, photographic imaging with special films, microchemical analysis, etc. -- Frederick T. Zugibe, M.D., "The Cross and the Shroud", (New York: Paragon House) (Revised ed., 1988), 119 - 122.



Radiocarbon Dating of the Shroud of Turin 1988
Very small samples from the Shroud of Turin have been dated by accelerator mass spectrometry in laboratories at Arizona, Oxford and Zurich.  As Controls, three samples whose ages had been determined independently were also dated.  The results provide conclusive evidence that the linen of the Shroud of Turin is mediaeval.
Source



... Scientific and popular publications have presented diverse arguments for both authenticity and possible methods of forgery. A variety of scientific theories regarding the shroud have since been proposed, based on disciplines ranging from chemistry to biology and medical forensics to optical image analysis. According to former Nature editor Philip Ball, "it's fair to say that, despite the seemingly definitive tests in 1988, the status of the Shroud of Turin is murkier than ever. Not least, the nature of the image and how it was fixed on the cloth remain deeply puzzling".[6] The shroud is one of the most studied artifacts in human history, and one of the most controversial.
Source

Sorry to disappoint you Karlis but no chemical analysis has been done on the image itself, the scientists receive a tiny piece of the shroud from one corner (which is why because shroudies are saying the radiocarbon piece was one of repairs done after the fire)

Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither Benjamin Franklin
République No.6
It's time for a sixth republic.

#18    Karlis

Karlis

  • Member
  • 8,614 posts
  • Joined:19 Jul 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 09 April 2012 - 01:25 PM

View PostParacelse, on 09 April 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Sorry to disappoint you Karlis but no chemical analysis has been done on the image itself, the scientists receive a tiny piece of the shroud from one corner (which is why because shroudies are saying the radiocarbon piece was one of repairs done after the fire)
No disappointment. As far as I understand, the donated piece of material is recognised as being from part of the original shroud weave-material, and *not* from a repair-patch. And would you expect authorise to allow part of the Shroud image to be chemically examined? If so, you  would see no problems in art experts taking paint scrapings from the Mona Lisa's face for examination, right?

Apart from that, my post was to answer your statement that: "the shroud remains the greatest mystery because no one is allow to study it ..."

Edited by Karlis, 09 April 2012 - 01:36 PM.


#19    Paracelse

Paracelse

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,074 posts
  • Joined:02 Mar 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France

Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:56 PM

View PostKarlis, on 09 April 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

No disappointment. As far as I understand, the donated piece of material is recognised as being from part of the original shroud weave-material, and *not* from a repair-patch. And would you expect authorise to allow part of the Shroud image to be chemically examined? If so, you  would see no problems in art experts taking paint scrapings from the Mona Lisa's face for examination, right?

Apart from that, my post was to answer your statement that: "the shroud remains the greatest mystery because no one is allow to study it ..."
Taking a historical approach to the shroud could enlighten the story.  Geoffrey de Lery is supposed to have brought the shroud from Jerusalem; then sold it to the Charny family a middle aristocratic family of Burgundy and was sold at the end of the 14trh century to the House of Savoi, who lived in Chambery France at the time.  The first document of that particular shroud was done in 1389 by Pierre d'Arcis bishop of Troyes (the same city that saw the birth of the Knight Templars and Chretien de Troyes of Arthurian fame) in a letter to the Pope Clement VII and calls it "a fake cynical forgery to defraud innocent pilgrim".  Obviously he wasn't talking about the same shroud because in his letter he (Pierre d'Arcis) mention paint.  And yet historically this was the shroud purchased from the De Charny.  So science can say anything historical facts point to "fake".  Not to mention the size of the picture if JC had been 5'11" someone in the new testament or in any other source of time would have mention it.  There is an Australian scientist and I forgot his name who proved that camera obscura work could have been done with the knowledge of the 13th century.

Edit to PS:  all the above is actually not part of the OP which questions the shroud potiential value into the spread of christiannity and the answer is NO.  The development of monacal life by Benoit de Nurcie(Saint Benedict) than the work of Benedictins monks in France particularly (see Cluny Citaux and Clervaux) shows heavy chrisnianisation of Europe.  Byn 1095, Urban V had no problem calling for the first Crusade (which ended in a desaster) and even children left for Jerusalem to free the city from the infidels.  To finish by 1184 the inquisition was in place in Languedoc first (see Albigency crusade) and did forbid any other type of worship besides christianity.  The work of Augustin, City of God was a great help amongs more litterate people.

Edited by Paracelse, 09 April 2012 - 08:21 PM.

Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither Benjamin Franklin
République No.6
It's time for a sixth republic.

#20    TattooMan

TattooMan

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 26 posts
  • Joined:10 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta area, GA

  • Keep an open mind about things you don't understand. You will be more likely to accept it, rather then react out of fear.

Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:02 AM

I think we missed the point of this article. Point being... was it responsible for helping in the spread of Christianity.

Personally, I believe it was responsible, because at the time it was seen as proof positive of the third day miracle. The shroud with the image, the body of Jesus gone, and the accounts of what happened. Back in that time, the burden of proof would be much less and because of Roman rule and occupation, the people needed to believe and their faith justified or affirmed.

Whether or not the shroud is authentic, it still played the role of spreading the word and the faith.


#21    euroninja

euroninja

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 444 posts
  • Joined:10 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • John 14:16
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the father, but by me.

Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:07 AM

View PostParacelse, on 09 April 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Taking a historical approach to the shroud could enlighten the story.  Geoffrey de Lery is supposed to have brought the shroud from Jerusalem; then sold it to the Charny family a middle aristocratic family of Burgundy and was sold at the end of the 14trh century to the House of Savoi, who lived in Chambery France at the time.  The first document of that particular shroud was done in 1389 by Pierre d'Arcis bishop of Troyes (the same city that saw the birth of the Knight Templars and Chretien de Troyes of Arthurian fame) in a letter to the Pope Clement VII and calls it "a fake cynical forgery to defraud innocent pilgrim".  Obviously he wasn't talking about the same shroud because in his letter he (Pierre d'Arcis) mention paint.  And yet historically this was the shroud purchased from the De Charny.  So science can say anything historical facts point to "fake".  Not to mention the size of the picture if JC had been 5'11" someone in the new testament or in any other source of time would have mention it.  There is an Australian scientist and I forgot his name who proved that camera obscura work could have been done with the knowledge of the 13th century.

Just finished watching the History Channel link. That was excellent! You should check it out to update your info.  :yes:

Man plans and God laughs.

#22    euroninja

euroninja

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 444 posts
  • Joined:10 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • John 14:16
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the father, but by me.

Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:14 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 09 April 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

Actually, I didn't. My post's for people who think the Shroud's a clever forgery. Again, some forgery. Atlantians, perhaps? I think, not. UFO??
That's a possibility. Always blame it on the aliens. I wanna get xeroxed when I die from head to toe just like Jesus.

Man plans and God laughs.

#23    danbell06

danbell06

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 322 posts
  • Joined:22 Feb 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK

  • BNAG.... < That's Bang out of order!

Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:21 AM

Although there is no evidence he made it, nor did he ever write about it in his notebook's, Leonardo (Da Vinci) had drawings of a camera obscura in his notebook's, i watched a documentary on channel 5, in which it shows that a camera obscura was used to create the Shroud.

"Leonardo scorched his facial features on to the linen of the Shroud using a sculpture of his face and a photographic device called a 'camera obscura'."

Posted Image



And it also shows that the self portrait that Leonardo drew fits exactly over the "face of jesus".

Posted Image

Another amazing fact was that the Mona Lisa's facial dimensions are EXACTLY the same as the portrait of Leonardo.

Posted Image

He was a genius, and was WELL ahead of his time.

Edited by danbell06, 11 April 2012 - 11:22 AM.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
Posted Image

#24    Paracelse

Paracelse

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,074 posts
  • Joined:02 Mar 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France

Posted 11 April 2012 - 03:35 PM

That he was

Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither Benjamin Franklin
République No.6
It's time for a sixth republic.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users