291 replies to this topic

[Ben Masada]

THE MYTH OF THE BIG BANG


Before you jump into the conclusion that I am about to bash the believers of this myth, I need to bring to your attention that the title of this thread, I have borrowed it from the great Astrophysicist Carl Sagan in his book "Cosmos," page 258.

After going through some quotations about the myths of creation, Carl Sagan refers to them as tributes to human audacity, being the chief difference between them and "our modern scientific myth of the big bang, that science is self-questioning through the performance of experiments and observations to test our ideas." Never mind how a myth can be tested or experimented upon.

The bottom line is that it was rather magnanimous of Carl Sagan to admit the big bang as no more, no less, a myth, just like any other mythological account of creation, which, nevertheless, is "equally worthy our deep respect." Here, Carl Sagan implies, IMHO, that the concept of probability is as good as gold in both cases: Creation and the big bang.

There are two modalities of beliefs: To believe by faith, when we don't know much about what we believe in, and to believe on the basis of probability, when even imaginable things move from zero to some possibility. To believe by faith, which leads to a claim or denial of anything as a fact, Carl Sagan calls it audacity, while king David calls it foolishness. (Psalm 14:1)

No wonder some theists charge atheists with equal need of faith to believe or to deny as both do each other. So, the only solution to this predicament is to believe on the basis of the concept of probability. Thus, audacity and foolishness are replaced by wisdom.

Ben

[RightInTheStatisticals]

Ben Masada, on 06 April 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

THE MYTH OF THE BIG BANG
...

First I would like to note, if you google 'carl sagan myth of big bang' this exact same post pops up in a multitude of forums all posted by someone named 'Ben'. That right there makes me suspicious as to your motives for again posting the same thing. Perhaps tell a lie enough, it becomes true?

That said this is the first time I have heard anything as such attributed to Carl Sagan. So, for possible ignorance on my part, can you or someone please provide some citation, in context, of Carl Sagan saying as much?

EDIT:
He did indeed write such a thing in his book Cosmos (should have remembered reading this quote; read Cosmos a couple of times):
"The chief difference between them and our modern scientific myth of the Big Bang is that science is self questioning, and that we can perform experiments and observation to test our ideas" (link)

But as expected taken out of context and brushed over with a statment of "Never mind how a myth can be tested or experimented upon."

EDIT2: If anyone else wants a little more context here is is a google books link (link)

Edited by RightInTheStatisticals, 06 April 2012 - 08:46 PM.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

So basically, Carl's saying "the Big Bang might be an invention of a creative mind, but at least we can prove or disprove it, unlike the God-centric creation models". Earth shattering stuff there.  

[questionmark]

Wearer of Hats, on 06 April 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

So basically, Carl's saying "the Big Bang might be an invention of a creative mind, but at least we can prove or disprove it, unlike the God-centric creation models". Earth shattering stuff there.  

I don't know, but sounds like the man is getting slightly senile lately... or want some redemption for its sins (which sometimes is the same)

[vitruvian12]

questionmark, on 06 April 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

I don't know, but sounds like the man is getting slightly senile lately... or want some redemption for its sins (which sometimes is the same)

Do you mean Sagan?  You do know hes dead dont you?

[Alienated Being]

More evidence exists to support the big bang theory than the idea of a god. Just because science can't fully explain something, that doesn't mean that religion can.

Edited by Alienated Being, 07 April 2012 - 01:54 AM.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Alienated Being, on 07 April 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

More evidence exists to support the big bang theory than the idea of a god. Just because science can't fully explain something, that doesn't mean that religion can.

Actually, it's more a case of "just because science can't explain something, and religion does, doesn't mean religion's explanation in this matter is anything other then a metaphor".

[Leonardo]

It is important, imo, when considering Big Bang Theory, to make a distinction between 'the universe', and 'all that is in (or, that we can observe within) the universe'. BBT can be applied to the latter with much more certainty that it can the former. There is also no real evidence for the singularity which many promote BBT as being preceded by.

It could be said, therefore, that those who apply BBT to the universe itself and make a statement of it along the lines of "The universe began with a singularity" are promoting a myth with no more real evidence for it than any religious account of creation.

[preacherman76]

Leonardo, on 07 April 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

It is important, imo, when considering Big Bang Theory, to make a distinction between 'the universe', and 'all that is in (or, that we can observe within) the universe'. BBT can be applied to the latter with much more certainty that it can the former. There is also no real evidence for the singularity which many promote BBT as being preceded by.

It could be said, therefore, that those who apply BBT to the universe itself and make a statement of it along the lines of "The universe began with a singularity" are promoting a myth with no more real evidence for it than any religious account of creation.

Good post Leo. The only thing I disagree with is saying there is no evidence for creation. Or at least intelligent design.

[Abramelin]

The Big Bang Theory is what it says: a theory, and it's based on science.

God is the myth here, based on exrapolating an image of a super-daddy into infinity.

[ShadowSot]

I don't think i like the idea of a god that intelligently designs penis fish or eye worms.

[Beckys_Mom]

I have explained  a lot about hte big bang to my daughter...She loves to learn about these things..        Big bang  is a theory but a darn good one


Myth...  sigh...!!

[Beckys_Mom]

RightInTheStatisticals, on 06 April 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

First I would like to note, if you google 'carl sagan myth of big bang' this exact same post pops up in a multitude of forums all posted by someone named 'Ben'. That right there makes me suspicious as to your motives for again posting the same thing. Perhaps tell a lie enough, it becomes true?

So this  guy   BEN is spamming the internet to call the big bang a myth?      My word talk about  obsession   lol.. that is just plain sad

[Rlyeh]

ShadowSot, on 07 April 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

I don't think i like the idea of a god that intelligently designs penis fish or eye worms.

Perhaps an intelligent sadist then.

[FurthurBB]

preacherman76, on 07 April 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

Good post Leo. The only thing I disagree with is saying there is no evidence for creation. Or at least intelligent design.

What evidence do you believe there is for intelligent design?