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British Columbian giant raven


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#1    Abramelin

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:06 AM

Has anyone ever heard of this:

British Columbian giant raven (Interior of B.C. NA): A piece of local folklore, the bush mechanics who worked in the interior of B.C. claim that here is a valley, rich in timber, which is populated by enormous ravens bigger than golden eagles. They say these ravens are dangerous animals, very opportunistic, and will not hesitate to tear someones camp apart. they are nearly flightless, and have much red in their tail plumage. These are obviously a specialized species of raven which developed in the isolation of this valley. However, if any introduced predators like dogs or cats make it there these ravens might become threatened.

http://www.angelfire.../preybirds.html

That website is the only place on the internet that mentions these 'giant ravens'.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 April 2012 - 11:07 AM.


#2    Abramelin

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 03:37 PM

As some of you will know - see my signature - I collect stories, myths, scientific papers and newspaper articles about any corvid on the planet (= magpies, jays, jackdaws, rooks, choughs, crows, ravens).

http://kromakhy.blogspot.com/

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Edited by Abramelin, 09 April 2012 - 03:43 PM.


#3    QuiteContrary

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:27 PM

Never heard of them either, but corvids are awesome! I will check out your site.

Keep your eyes wide open and don't run!

P.S. Just to be clear, because sometimes I am not. I do not believe...
in the existence of a large previously unknown undiscovered hairy biped roaming North America.
But I like to hear the accounts, read the books, watch the shows, discuss and argue about the phenomenon.

#4    Rafterman

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:31 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 April 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Has anyone ever heard of this:

British Columbian giant raven (Interior of B.C. NA): A piece of local folklore, the bush mechanics who worked in the interior of B.C. claim that here is a valley, rich in timber, which is populated by enormous ravens bigger than golden eagles. They say these ravens are dangerous animals, very opportunistic, and will not hesitate to tear someones camp apart. they are nearly flightless, and have much red in their tail plumage. These are obviously a specialized species of raven which developed in the isolation of this valley. However, if any introduced predators like dogs or cats make it there these ravens might become threatened.

http://www.angelfire.../preybirds.html

That website is the only place on the internet that mentions these 'giant ravens'.

.


You would think that if these existed in a single specific valley in BC, that they would be fully documented and known to science.

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#5    glorybebe

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:55 PM

View PostRafterman, on 09 April 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

You would think that if these existed in a single specific valley in BC, that they would be fully documented and known to science.


Yeah, I have never heard of these.  I do know that in the populated areas where the Ravens can have easy access to garbage they get quite large.

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#6    psyche101

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:03 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 April 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Has anyone ever heard of this:

British Columbian giant raven (Interior of B.C. NA): A piece of local folklore, the bush mechanics who worked in the interior of B.C. claim that here is a valley, rich in timber, which is populated by enormous ravens bigger than golden eagles. They say these ravens are dangerous animals, very opportunistic, and will not hesitate to tear someones camp apart. they are nearly flightless, and have much red in their tail plumage. These are obviously a specialized species of raven which developed in the isolation of this valley. However, if any introduced predators like dogs or cats make it there these ravens might become threatened.

http://www.angelfire.../preybirds.html

That website is the only place on the internet that mentions these 'giant ravens'.

.


Does BC sound like a plausible place for such a bird to develop? I thought it would be a little too populated, but the story does say an isolated area.

The PNG bird quite caught my attention. Interesting story that, it could be some sort of Cassowary or similar. I guess even possible something unknown. PNG seems like the place to hide such a thing and with Emu's an Cassowaries still very prolific just below in Oz, it seems not too much of a stretch of a tale.

Edited by psyche101, 09 April 2012 - 11:04 PM.

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#7    Abramelin

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:41 PM

View PostRafterman, on 09 April 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

You would think that if these existed in a single specific valley in BC, that they would be fully documented and known to science.

Yeah, that's what I would expect too. But I had hoped someone else from BC might have heard of that 'piece of local folklore'.

And wouldn't these  bush mechanics want to report something special like dangerous, near-flighless eagle-sized ravens to some biologist?


#8    Abramelin

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:55 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 09 April 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Does BC sound like a plausible place for such a bird to develop? I thought it would be a little too populated, but the story does say an isolated area.

The PNG bird quite caught my attention. Interesting story that, it could be some sort of Cassowary or similar. I guess even possible something unknown. PNG seems like the place to hide such a thing and with Emu's an Cassowaries still very prolific just below in Oz, it seems not too much of a stretch of a tale.

Strange as it may sound, but I have been thinking of a mis-identification of an introduced alien species that is not a corvid at all...

The bird I was thinking of is the socalled "Johnny Rook" from the Falkland Islands and Tierra del Fuego. It behaves like described in the first post, the juveniles have a reddish color/glow, they only have hooked beaks. The rest of their behaviour is very much like that of a gang of ravens (or an "unkindness of ravens", lol).



http://en.wikipedia....riated_Caracara

http://ibc.lynxeds.c...et-leopard-seal

But are they bigger than golden eagles??

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 April 2012 - 11:55 PM.


#9    glorybebe

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:02 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 April 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

Strange as it may sound, but I have been thinking of a mis-identification of an introduced alien species that is not a corvid at all...

The bird I was thinking of is the socalled "Johnny Rook" from the Falkland Islands and Tierra del Fuego. It behaves like described in the first post, the juveniles have a reddish color/glow, they only have hooked beaks. The rest of their behaviour is very much like that of a gang of ravens (or an "unkindness of ravens", lol).



http://en.wikipedia....riated_Caracara

http://ibc.lynxeds.c...et-leopard-seal

But are they bigger than golden eagles??

.

We do get Turkey Vultures up here in the summer, and other than the eagles down the coast that eat a lot of fish, I have never heard of giant Ravens.

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#10    evancj

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:15 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 April 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

As some of you will know - see my signature - I collect stories, myths, scientific papers and newspaper articles about any corvid on the planet (= magpies, jays, jackdaws, rooks, choughs, crows, ravens).

http://kromakhy.blogspot.com/

.

I am very interested in corvids as well. I looked at your site (quickly). Looks like an excellent source of info,  :tu:  I bookmarked it and will take a closer look later. If you are interested I have many (personally taken) photos of corvids that I would be happy to donate to your site. If you are interested let me know.


#11    evancj

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:24 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 April 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Has anyone ever heard of this:

British Columbian giant raven (Interior of B.C. NA): A piece of local folklore, the bush mechanics who worked in the interior of B.C. claim that here is a valley, rich in timber, which is populated by enormous ravens bigger than golden eagles. They say these ravens are dangerous animals, very opportunistic, and will not hesitate to tear someones camp apart. they are nearly flightless, and have much red in their tail plumage. These are obviously a specialized species of raven which developed in the isolation of this valley. However, if any introduced predators like dogs or cats make it there these ravens might become threatened.

http://www.angelfire.../preybirds.html

That website is the only place on the internet that mentions these 'giant ravens'.

.

I would think that normal sized flying ravens could easily out compete bigger almost flightless ravens, thus rendering the larger bird obsolete (just guessing here). And we know that isolation, and high mountains are not barriers for normal flying ravens.


#12    Abramelin

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:27 AM

View Postevancj, on 10 April 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

I am very interested in corvids as well. I looked at your site (quickly). Looks like an excellent source of info,  :tu:  I bookmarked it and will take a closer look later. If you are interested I have many (personally taken) photos of corvids that I would be happy to donate to your site. If you are interested let me know.

Sure, please do!

.

Edited by Abramelin, 10 April 2012 - 12:27 AM.


#13    Abramelin

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:30 AM

View Postevancj, on 10 April 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

I would think that normal sized flying ravens could easily out compete bigger almost flightless ravens, thus rendering the larger bird obsolete (just guessing here). And we know that isolation, and high mountains are not barriers for normal flying ravens.

If it is a true story (big IF here), then these ravens developed a quite nasty character over time. Or else what I suggested earlier: a mis-identification.

It seems, however, unlikely someone introduced Johnny Rooks into some isolated valley in BC, but who knows? They are also not at all flightless, but they sure do love to walk and run as you can see in the video, and totally unafraid of humans.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 10 April 2012 - 12:56 AM.


#14    glorybebe

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:31 AM

View Postevancj, on 10 April 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

I would think that normal sized flying ravens could easily out compete bigger almost flightless ravens, thus rendering the larger bird obsolete (just guessing here). And we know that isolation, and high mountains are not barriers for normal flying ravens.


For the birds to be bigger, they would need a large food source.  That is why the eagles down in Squamish are so large-they gorge themselves on the spaqwning salmon.  For Ravens to be this big, there would have to be abundant food in the valley to support their size.  This just doesn't make any sense IMO.

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#15    Abramelin

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:53 AM

View Postglorybebe, on 10 April 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

For the birds to be bigger, they would need a large food source.  That is why the eagles down in Squamish are so large-they gorge themselves on the spaqwning salmon.  For Ravens to be this big, there would have to be abundant food in the valley to support their size.  This just doesn't make any sense IMO.

Well, maybe there is abundant food in that valley? The only thing that's being said of that valley is that it is isolated, not how large it is or what kind of food is available.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 10 April 2012 - 12:54 AM.





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