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British Columbian giant raven


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#16    glorybebe

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:07 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 10 April 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

Well, maybe there is abundant food in that valley? The only thing that's being said of that valley is that it is isolated, not how large it is or what kind of food is available.

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If you didn't notice I live in BC.  The amounts of food for a whole flock to live would have to be immense.  If there was one bird and it was the only carnivore, then yes, I could see it growing to a huge size.  But, it there was a flock of them, they would soon eat the food supply and either leave that valley or die out.  Larger animals need larger amounts of food.

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#17    Abramelin

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:29 AM

View Postglorybebe, on 10 April 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

If you didn't notice I live in BC.  The amounts of food for a whole flock to live would have to be immense.  If there was one bird and it was the only carnivore, then yes, I could see it growing to a huge size.  But, it there was a flock of them, they would soon eat the food supply and either leave that valley or die out.  Larger animals need larger amounts of food.

For carnivores a valley would probably be too small because it could not sustain a population of them because of a lack of prey animals.

But ravens are omnivores; they eat anything edible.

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#18    glorybebe

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:00 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 10 April 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:

For carnivores a valley would probably be too small because it could not sustain a population of them because of a lack of prey animals.

But ravens are omnivores; they eat anything edible.

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Yes...it is nice to want to believe in this large bird, but, there is not a valley that would feed a whole flock of these animals AND feed other animals too.  I have lived in may parts of this province and I have never heard of these animals.  Something like this would be studied, and there would be articles in articles and magazines;  National Geographic, BC Geographic or Beautiful British Columbia.

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#19    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:20 AM

i'm a local BCer. I've seen some big ravens and tamed/had semi-pet ravens in the past that i fed daily. they can get very big. bigger then eagles? doubtful. but big, yes? and if you've ever been attacked by a raven you would know that they can be very dangerous. two or three of them could kill a person if they were so motivated. this legend (i've heard of it once before) probably started when some loggers chopped down a tree with a nest and the ravens (which were probably large ravens - as large as ravens can naturally get) in turn attacked them. (ravens and crows hold grudges, funnily enough). and thus the legend began.

eitherway, it would be neat to read more about this.

Edited by Bavarian Raven, 10 April 2012 - 02:21 AM.


#20    Abramelin

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:40 AM

View Postglorybebe, on 10 April 2012 - 02:00 AM, said:

Yes...it is nice to want to believe in this large bird, but, there is not a valley that would feed a whole flock of these animals AND feed other animals too.  I have lived in may parts of this province and I have never heard of these animals.  Something like this would be studied, and there would be articles in articles and magazines;  National Geographic, BC Geographic or Beautiful British Columbia.

I do not even believe it myself, I just wanted to know if it is a story other people from BC have heard of.

Well, it appears not, so I wonder where the owner of that website got his story from if he didn't make it all up himself. The rest of his 'cryptids' seem to be wellknown, though.

And I can't really argue with you about if it could in any way be possible because I have never been in BC and I so don't know if there are these isolated valleys where hardly anyone ever comes.


#21    Abramelin

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:48 AM

View PostBavarian Raven, on 10 April 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

i'm a local BCer. I've seen some big ravens and tamed/had semi-pet ravens in the past that i fed daily. they can get very big. bigger then eagles? doubtful. but big, yes? and if you've ever been attacked by a raven you would know that they can be very dangerous. two or three of them could kill a person if they were so motivated. this legend (i've heard of it once before) probably started when some loggers chopped down a tree with a nest and the ravens (which were probably large ravens - as large as ravens can naturally get) in turn attacked them. (ravens and crows hold grudges, funnily enough). and thus the legend began.

eitherway, it would be neat to read more about this.

Yes Bavarian Raven, I know ravens can be dangerous when motivated. But the only live ravens I ever met were in southern Germany (Schwarzwald, "Black Forest"). The only ravens here in the Netherlands have been reintroduced decades ago, but they never became numerous and did hardly spread out from the area of reintroduction. On the other hand, we have lots of crows, rooks, jackdaws, magpies and jays.

Anyway, if you happen to learn more about the story, please post about it.


#22    vitruvian12

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:23 PM

Ive lived in the bc interior most of my life.  Im in a small town called 100 Mile House.  Its entirely forestry and mill driven.  Although Im not involved in the logging industry friends and family have been and are.  Ive never heard of any story like that.  
I have worked in logging camps before and though some are quite deluxe they can get boring.  It sounds more like a case of people trying to one up each other while relating their day.  Everyone always wants to be the one who saw the biggest deer or moose for example, I can see that extending to crows and ravens too.  As far as a valley rich in timber goes, if the mechanics of your story were there then the loggers were there too.  Which means it wouldnt be rich in timber for long.


#23    Abramelin

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:00 PM

View Postvitruvian12, on 10 April 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

Ive lived in the bc interior most of my life.  Im in a small town called 100 Mile House.  Its entirely forestry and mill driven.  Although Im not involved in the logging industry friends and family have been and are.  Ive never heard of any story like that.  
I have worked in logging camps before and though some are quite deluxe they can get boring.  It sounds more like a case of people trying to one up each other while relating their day.  Everyone always wants to be the one who saw the biggest deer or moose for example, I can see that extending to crows and ravens too.  As far as a valley rich in timber goes, if the mechanics of your story were there then the loggers were there too.  Which means it wouldnt be rich in timber for long.

The size of those ravens may have been exaggerated, that's bound to happen with people telling eachother stories at a campfire. It may have been nothing but a case of "those ravens were fg big!!"

But the details about the plumage and the behaviour...hmm.


#24    glorybebe

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:22 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 10 April 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

I do not even believe it myself, I just wanted to know if it is a story other people from BC have heard of.

Well, it appears not, so I wonder where the owner of that website got his story from if he didn't make it all up himself. The rest of his 'cryptids' seem to be wellknown, though.

And I can't really argue with you about if it could in any way be possible because I have never been in BC and I so don't know if there are these isolated valleys where hardly anyone ever comes.


Well, we have our share of cryptids, we have the Ogopogo, a giant creature sort of like Nessie in Scotland, many people claim to have seen a sasquatch, there are a LOT of myths and legends in BC.  The Natives can tell some really cool stories.  the problem is that we have no proof of any of them.  I wish it was otherwise, but, other than stories passed arounf, that is the case.

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#25    Sakari

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:46 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 April 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Has anyone ever heard of this:

British Columbian giant raven (Interior of B.C. NA): A piece of local folklore, the bush mechanics who worked in the interior of B.C. claim that here is a valley, rich in timber, which is populated by enormous ravens bigger than golden eagles. They say these ravens are dangerous animals, very opportunistic, and will not hesitate to tear someones camp apart. they are nearly flightless, and have much red in their tail plumage. These are obviously a specialized species of raven which developed in the isolation of this valley. However, if any introduced predators like dogs or cats make it there these ravens might become threatened.

http://www.angelfire.../preybirds.html

That website is the only place on the internet that mentions these 'giant ravens'.

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Not saying everyone believes this, but I do not get why there is even a hint that it " might " exist?.......Seems in the Paranormal world, more than anywhere else, people do not learn from mistakes, or from history.......Just the same hoax's / stories changed a tiny bit, and used again and again........No originality.




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#26    psyche101

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:05 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 April 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

Strange as it may sound, but I have been thinking of a mis-identification of an introduced alien species that is not a corvid at all...

The bird I was thinking of is the socalled "Johnny Rook" from the Falkland Islands and Tierra del Fuego. It behaves like described in the first post, the juveniles have a reddish color/glow, they only have hooked beaks. The rest of their behaviour is very much like that of a gang of ravens (or an "unkindness of ravens", lol).



http://en.wikipedia....riated_Caracara

http://ibc.lynxeds.c...et-leopard-seal

But are they bigger than golden eagles??

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It sounds like an excellent possibility. They sure look the part.

Could simple parallax error and distance account for size?

I take it you are fond of our downunder Corvid the Currawong as well? :D Very intelligent birds as well.


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#27    Abramelin

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:25 AM

Yes sir, I love currawongs, but they are not corvids.

They sure look and behave very similar, though.

Did you know corvids originated in Australia (or better: Austranesia), many millions of years ago? From there they spread out over the entire planet.


#28    vitruvian12

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:02 PM

Loggers and "bush mechanics" dont just go into areas that look good to them and start logging.  The cut blocks are first surveyed by professional foresters and others to weigh the environmental impact of logging the area.  If the birds were such an obvious oddity and aggresive then you would think they would have made themselves known to these people who would recognize their unique nature.  
Why try to explain a story that doesnt even have any source that is reliably identified?


#29    Conrad Clough

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:15 PM

I have never heard of them before. I might be more inclined to believe it if the ravens lived on an isolated island rather than in a valley.

Valleys, unlike islands, are rarely (if ever) isolated enough from the surrounding countryside that natural predators can not get there, and British Columbia has plenty of natural wolves and cougars, I don't see how introduced domestic dogs and cats (not to mention that few domestic cats would take on anything the size of an eagle) would do anything, should they exist... while introduced animals can cause a lot of problems, generally it is caused when predatory animals are introduced to areas with no natural predators or where a new animal that is better at using the same ecological niche is introduced.


#30    Abramelin

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:26 PM

View Postvitruvian12, on 11 April 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

Loggers and "bush mechanics" dont just go into areas that look good to them and start logging.  The cut blocks are first surveyed by professional foresters and others to weigh the environmental impact of logging the area.  If the birds were such an obvious oddity and aggresive then you would think they would have made themselves known to these people who would recognize their unique nature.  
Why try to explain a story that doesnt even have any source that is reliably identified?

I had hopes for someone from BC telling me about that source.

And by trying to explain the story, we could maybe find out about who sprread this 'news' first.

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Edited by Abramelin, 11 April 2012 - 08:35 PM.





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