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'Did Jesus Exist?' A Historian Makes His Case


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#61    Jor-el

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:31 PM

View Postzenfahr, on 13 April 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

looks like you got a picture of my uncle billy. whats the point?

That's the best rendering of what Jesus must have looked like, that we've got.

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#62    regeneratia

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 06:56 PM

This mate is worth reading, folks!
http://www.tonybushby.com/

I have only read THE BIBLE FRAUD, but it was really well done. I bought many copies for friends.


#63    Jor-el

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:29 PM

View Postregeneratia, on 14 April 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

This mate is worth reading, folks!
http://www.tonybushby.com/

I have only read THE BIBLE FRAUD, but it was really well done. I bought many copies for friends.

It is a misleading and false book... just as the bible fraud was. This gentleman falsifies his sources and actually uses, non-existent sources... that means only one thing, he is a man with a mission, even if he has to lie to succeed in it...

Edited by Jor-el, 14 April 2012 - 07:37 PM.

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#64    chiole

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:38 PM

Jesus, or the true name, Yeshua, actually did exist and was mentioned in the Hebrew bible. Yeshua in Hebrew is verbal derivative from "to rescue", "to deliver", not to "overcome the enemy" in literal terms, as Bart Ehrman and so many people make the mistake of thinking and to correct him, many of the Jew's also does not believe that Yeshua had already arrived they believe that he is still to come. Tal Ilan's lexicon of Second Temple period names on inscriptions in Palestine (2002) includes for "Joshua" 85 examples of Hebrew Yeshua, 15 of Yehoshua, and 48 examples of Iesous in Greek inscriptions," with only one Greek variant as Iesoua. One ossuary of the around twenty known with the name Yeshua, Rahmani No.9, discovered by Ezra Sukenik in 1931, has "Yeshu... Yeshua ben Yosef." The "Yeshu..." may have been scratched out. Two Jewish magical incantation bowls have been discovered both bearing variant spellings of Yeshua. Apart from the "Yesh.. Yeshua ben Yosef" ossuary, the only other known evidence for the existence of a Yeshu form prior to the material related to Jesus in the Talmud, is a graffito which Joachim Jeremias identified in Bethesda in 1966, but which is now filled in. Also the known spoken and understood language of the day was Greek and not Roman. The Pilot stone that was discovered also proved that Pontius Pilatus who was also thought to be a mystical figure was in fact not, but did exist not as a mystical figure, but as a very real person.
SO SORRY GUYS TO MUCH EVEDENSE POINTS TO THE EXISTENCE OF YESHUA OR IF YOU PLEASE, JESUS.


#65    Roddy

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:36 PM

View Postchiole, on 18 April 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

Jesus, or the true name, Yeshua, actually did exist and was mentioned in the Hebrew bible. Yeshua in Hebrew is verbal derivative from "to rescue", "to deliver", not to "overcome the enemy" in literal terms, as Bart Ehrman and so many people make the mistake of thinking and to correct him, many of the Jew's also does not believe that Yeshua had already arrived they believe that he is still to come. Tal Ilan's lexicon of Second Temple period names on inscriptions in Palestine (2002) includes for "Joshua" 85 examples of Hebrew Yeshua, 15 of Yehoshua, and 48 examples of Iesous in Greek inscriptions," with only one Greek variant as Iesoua. One ossuary of the around twenty known with the name Yeshua, Rahmani No.9, discovered by Ezra Sukenik in 1931, has "Yeshu... Yeshua ben Yosef." The "Yeshu..." may have been scratched out. Two Jewish magical incantation bowls have been discovered both bearing variant spellings of Yeshua. Apart from the "Yesh.. Yeshua ben Yosef" ossuary, the only other known evidence for the existence of a Yeshu form prior to the material related to Jesus in the Talmud, is a graffito which Joachim Jeremias identified in Bethesda in 1966, but which is now filled in. Also the known spoken and understood language of the day was Greek and not Roman. The Pilot stone that was discovered also proved that Pontius Pilatus who was also thought to be a mystical figure was in fact not, but did exist not as a mystical figure, but as a very real person.
SO SORRY GUYS TO MUCH EVEDENSE POINTS TO THE EXISTENCE OF YESHUA OR IF YOU PLEASE, JESUS.

Actually, if you read Prof. Ehrman's book, you may be surprised at what his answer is to the title's question.


#66    Jor-el

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:06 PM

View PostRoddy, on 18 April 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

Actually, if you read Prof. Ehrman's book, you may be surprised at what his answer is to the title's question.

That a man named Jesus did exist, but it could not possibly be the Jesus of the bible?

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#67    chiole

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:45 AM

View PostJor-el, on 18 April 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

That a man named Jesus did exist, but it could not possibly be the Jesus of the bible?
Thanks, you just took the question out off my mouth :rolleyes:

Edited by chiole, 19 April 2012 - 07:46 AM.


#68    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:58 AM

View PostJor-el, on 18 April 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

That a man named Jesus did exist, but it could not possibly be the Jesus of the bible?

Many men back then were named Jesus.. As for the bible version that is  called son of God and  miracle provider   ect... We have no facts to back that, hence why it will always be just a belief...    


I will never get why so many believers cannot  for the love of them  acknowledge that it is a belief and not proven facts for all to observe

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#69    Jor-el

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 05:46 PM

View Postchiole, on 19 April 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

Thanks, you just took the question out off my mouth :rolleyes:

And one that I do not agree with...:rolleyes:

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#70    Jor-el

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 05:47 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 19 April 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

Many men back then were named Jesus.. As for the bible version that is  called son of God and  miracle provider   ect... We have no facts to back that, hence why it will always be just a belief...    


I will never get why so many believers cannot  for the love of them  acknowledge that it is a belief and not proven facts for all to observe

Ok, I can do that, just as soon as everyone gets off their high horse and accepts the same treatment of every single other historical figure...

Then we could drop History as a subject entirely in school (I know the students would appreciate that deeply) since most of what is learnt there would be classified as a belief...

Like the Columbus issue we talked about...

Edited by Jor-el, 19 April 2012 - 05:49 PM.

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#71    Roddy

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:08 PM

View PostJor-el, on 18 April 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

That a man named Jesus did exist, but it could not possibly be the Jesus of the bible?

Read his book and find out.   :tu:


#72    Jor-el

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:23 PM

View PostRoddy, on 19 April 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

Read his book and find out.   :tu:

I'll give you my opinion tomorrow, I just downloaded it.

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#73    Roddy

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:53 PM

View PostJor-el, on 19 April 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

I'll give you my opinion tomorrow, I just downloaded it.

Looking forward to it. I'm only half way through the book myself. But based on his other books, I think I know what his answer will be.

It just seemed that alot of people were jumping to conclusions, instead of taking the time to read the book first. Which is why I thought I should comment.


#74    Jor-el

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:06 PM

View PostRoddy, on 19 April 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

Looking forward to it. I'm only half way through the book myself. But based on his other books, I think I know what his answer will be.

It just seemed that alot of people were jumping to conclusions, instead of taking the time to read the book first. Which is why I thought I should comment.

I am aware of his background, I did a little research before commenting. But to adequately critique his stance I have to read the book 1st. I know he does not support the "Jesus Myth" stance, but he is one of the people who state that the Gospels do not portray Jesus with honsesty. That alot of the information is altered and added to to support a radically different view of the person we call Jesus.

Thus my original question... That a man named Jesus did exist, but it could not possibly be the Jesus of the bible?

Edited by Jor-el, 19 April 2012 - 10:06 PM.

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-C. S. Lewis


#75    Roddy

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 06:01 AM

View PostJor-el, on 19 April 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

I am aware of his background, I did a little research before commenting. But to adequately critique his stance I have to read the book 1st. I know he does not support the "Jesus Myth" stance, but he is one of the people who state that the Gospels do not portray Jesus with honsesty. That alot of the information is altered and added to to support a radically different view of the person we call Jesus.

Thus my original question... That a man named Jesus did exist, but it could not possibly be the Jesus of the bible?

If you are aware of Prof. Ehrman's backstory, then you would already know that it would be impossible for a person who has lost his faith to write a book saying Jesus is the son of God. Just as it would be equally impossible for a believing Christian to write a book saying Jesus did not exist. Therefore you would already have the answer to your question.

My original comment was for the person who had just posted, as they were assuming that the book would say Jesus never existed. I feel what is more interesting about this book is the look at the evidences of Jesus outside the Bible. That is why I am reading it.

By the way, for anyone who is interested, There is a Formal Debate here on this site between Tiggs and Paranoid Android on this very subject. (If they would only finish it. Hint, Hint.)   Link - Debate





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