47 replies to this topic

[Still Waters]

www.bbc.co.uk said:

A second psychiatric evaluation of Norwegian mass killer Anders Behring Breivik has found him sane enough to face trial and a jail term.

The findings contradict a previous evaluation, published in November, that found him legally insane.

Breivik is due to stand trial on Monday over a bomb attack and shooting spree last July that killed 77 people.

The 33-year-old, who insists he is mentally stable, was "pleased" with the new assessment, his lawyer said.

Geir Lippestad told reporters his client would defend his actions during his 10-week trial, adding, "he will also regret that he didn't go further".

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A previous thread -

http://www.unexplain...1

[libstaK]

Geir Lippestad told reporters his client would defend his actions during his 10-week trial, adding, "he will also regret that he didn't go further".

Are they kidding so Breivik's defence is that he was justified and should have done more and killing 77 innocent teenagers because he is in fear of Europe being overrun with Islam is somehow going to make sense - in a court of law no less?  WOW they put out all the stops to get this guy the best possible defence attorney    .  Good for them - in this exceedingly clear cut case anyway .

[Simbi Laveau]

libstaK, on 10 April 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Geir Lippestad told reporters his client would defend his actions during his 10-week trial, adding, "he will also regret that he didn't go further".

Are they kidding so Breivik's defence is that he was justified and should have done more and killing 77 innocent teenagers because he is in fear of Europe being overrun with Islam is somehow going to make sense - in a court of law no less?  WOW they put out all the stops to get this guy the best possible defence attorney    .  Good for them - in this exceedingly clear cut case anyway .

I really don't get some of these lawyers lately .
Either they want their client to go to jail,or they are just incompetent.
Heard some bizarre defenses ,as of late.

[Mr Right Wing]

Simbi Laveau, on 10 April 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

I really don't get some of these lawyers lately .
Either they want their client to go to jail,or they are just incompetent.
Heard some bizarre defenses ,as of late.

His defence team act under his instructions not in his best interests which in this case would be trying to convince the Court he was insane.

I think someone will have him in prison.

[and then]

If I understand Norway's legal stance in this, he will stay in custody indefinitely if found insane but could be free in his 50s or 60s if found guilty as a sane murderer.  Much better for him to be found guilty.  He may even be able to spew his hate from behind bars regardless the finding.  If Norway allows such to happen then they get what they deserve for the stupidity they show.

[Cute_Gingrich]

From 10 April 2012 - 05:13 PM:

If I understand Norway's legal stance in this...

You don't.

[Helen of Annoy]

and then, on 10 April 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

If I understand Norway's legal stance in this, he will stay in custody indefinitely if found insane but could be free in his 50s or 60s if found guilty as a sane murderer.  Much better for him to be found guilty.  He may even be able to spew his hate from behind bars regardless the finding.  If Norway allows such to happen then they get what they deserve for the stupidity they show.

Norway is a country, not a single person, so whole Norway cannot “deserve” anything.  
It’s called collective guilt and only folks like Breivik believe in such preposterous concepts.

But why I'm not surprised...

[and then]

Helen of Annoy, on 10 April 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Norway is a country, not a single person, so whole Norway cannot “deserve” anything.  
It’s called collective guilt and only folks like Breivik believe in such preposterous concepts.

But why I'm not surprised...

When a person lives in a democracy they are at one with it.  They are responsible for the laws and the abuses the country is guilty of so yes, Norwegians are interchangeable with Norway.  I resent your comparison of me to a mass murderer.  It shows how contemptible even the most "enlightened" of us can be at times, no?

[Mr Right Wing]

and then, on 10 April 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

When a person lives in a democracy they are at one with it.  They are responsible for the laws and the abuses the country is guilty of so yes, Norwegians are interchangeable with Norway.  I resent your comparison of me to a mass murderer.  It shows how contemptible even the most "enlightened" of us can be at times, no?

Norway has no life sentence the longest anybody is allowed to serve is 21 years.

If we invade Iran the guy may get released a lot sooner than that if the Muslims go Jihad on us.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 10 April 2012 - 06:55 PM.

[Helen of Annoy]

and then, on 10 April 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

When a person lives in a democracy they are at one with it.  They are responsible for the laws and the abuses the country is guilty of so yes, Norwegians are interchangeable with Norway.  I resent your comparison of me to a mass murderer.  It shows how contemptible even the most "enlightened" of us can be at times, no?

No.
Neither I’m enlightened, nor can your interpretation of democracy pass anywhere but in totalitarian dreams. Democracy is not collectivism.  
In less pompous language: People vote, hoping for the best (often there’s no real difference and therefore no choice, but that’s whole another can of worms), but they don’t make the decisions so they can’t be burdened with guilt.

Personal responsibility. Always. Only. I do not accept responsibility for actions of morons in power, I do accept responsibility to try to vote for less destructive moron.

If you can blame whole nation for the actions of government or representatives of the nation, if you can seriously identify individual with the state, then you have transported yourself politically into 1918 Russia or 1922 Italy or... nah, I won’t Godwine this thread any further     

Breivik obviously believe someone’s political stance determines if someone is worth living. Don’t be lefty and you’ll live. Don't be Muslim, don't be brown... ‘scuse me, but that’s that collective guilt stuff. They were guilty in his mind, since the groups in which he thinks they belong were guilty.
I don't think anyone is guilty or above guilt just because they could or could not be counted in certain group.

You'll only condemn, Breivik will kill, but the mechanism is the same and it's wrong. According to me, of course, I might be wrong and guilty of all the crap that hit my country's fan lately.  


To sum it up:
If maestro farts during concert, is that the fault of the whole orchestra?

[ShadowSot]

Mr Right Wing, on 10 April 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Norway has no life sentence the longest anybody is allowed to serve is 21 years.

If we invade Iran the guy may get released a lot sooner than that if the Muslims go Jihad on us.

You might want to actually look to see how it works. 'Cause that ain't it.

[Englishgent]

The fact is the guy is gulty. We all know that. Having a trial is in my opinion just a farce and a total waste of public money.  I know the justice system in the Western world says that a person is innocent until proven guilty but in a clear cut case such as this there should not even be a trial!   He has even said that he would have liked to kill more people than he did so we all know he is guilty.
i know this will bring a few people out of the woodwork who will say I am wrong but IMO we should just hang him and get it over with. He does not deserve to live.
I dont care if those who dont believe in capital punishment get upset over what I have said. Most people who do not believe in capital punishment use the excuse of possibly disposing of an innocent person. That argument does not hold up in this case.
Those who do feel upset, put yourselves in the shoes of those parents who lost children that day and then tell me I am wrong.

[Mr Right Wing]

Englishgent, on 11 April 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

The fact is the guy is gulty. We all know that. Having a trial is in my opinion just a farce and a total waste of public money.  I know the justice system in the Western world says that a person is innocent until proven guilty but in a clear cut case such as this there should not even be a trial!   He has even said that he would have liked to kill more people than he did so we all know he is guilty.
i know this will bring a few people out of the woodwork who will say I am wrong but IMO we should just hang him and get it over with. He does not deserve to live.
I dont care if those who dont believe in capital punishment get upset over what I have said. Most people who do not believe in capital punishment use the excuse of possibly disposing of an innocent person. That argument does not hold up in this case.
Those who do feel upset, put yourselves in the shoes of those parents who lost children that day and then tell me I am wrong.

When he says he is against the super liberals for feminising him to a certain degree is he saying he's gay?

[Englishgent]

Mr Right Wing, on 11 April 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

When he says he is against the super liberals for feminising him to a certain degree is he saying he's gay?

Quite possibly......still guilty though

[and then]

Helen of Annoy, on 10 April 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

No.
Neither I’m enlightened, nor can your interpretation of democracy pass anywhere but in totalitarian dreams. Democracy is not collectivism.  
In less pompous language: People vote, hoping for the best (often there’s no real difference and therefore no choice, but that’s whole another can of worms), but they don’t make the decisions so they can’t be burdened with guilt.

Personal responsibility. Always. Only. I do not accept responsibility for actions of morons in power, I do accept responsibility to try to vote for less destructive moron.

If you can blame whole nation for the actions of government or representatives of the nation, if you can seriously identify individual with the state, then you have transported yourself politically into 1918 Russia or 1922 Italy or... nah, I won’t Godwine this thread any further     

Breivik obviously believe someone’s political stance determines if someone is worth living. Don’t be lefty and you’ll live. Don't be Muslim, don't be brown... ‘scuse me, but that’s that collective guilt stuff. They were guilty in his mind, since the groups in which he thinks they belong were guilty.
I don't think anyone is guilty or above guilt just because they could or could not be counted in certain group.

You'll only condemn, Breivik will kill, but the mechanism is the same and it's wrong. According to me, of course, I might be wrong and guilty of all the crap that hit my country's fan lately.  


To sum it up:
If maestro farts during concert, is that the fault of the whole orchestra?

I'm happy to see that you feel willing to take responsibility for your own actions, that's a start.  I think we are talking at cross purposes.  When I say that any citizen of a democracy is ultimately responsible for the actions taken by that democracy I am speaking on a moral level, not one with some legal binding.  I am American.  When my country bombs a wedding party in Afghanistan or Iraq due to bad intelligence and a couple dozen innocents are killed, then hell yes I am responsible.  My labor/taxes make it possible for those aircraft to be there.  My votes put in power the leaders who determined we should fight there.  Ultimately that sin lies at my door also.
I don't really understand your stance that my feeling responsible for my government's actions makes me the equivalent of a mass murderer like Breivik.  I apparently have touched a nerve of some kind which I never intended.  I still resent the insult but I don't want to argue the point.  Good day to you.