22 replies to this topic

[Karlis]

www.washingtonpost.com said:

LONDON — The British government has fast-tracked a move to restore the rights of towns and cities to hold prayers as part of their official business, effectively overriding a High Court order to stop the practice. Read more...

[TheLastLazyGun]

That's good to see.  These prayers should be allowed to go ahead and should not be stopped all over the country just because some thin-skinned idiot in one council building got "offended" by it.

[Essan]

Whilst I disapprove of banning them, I fail to see why archaic religious ceremonies should be a part of 21st century council discussions.

Next they'l be sacrificing a goat before deciding on whether to approve a new by-pass - or, indeed, a increase in the stationary budget!

EDit: Odd I can't find any UK news story on this?

Edited by Essan, 11 April 2012 - 06:31 PM.

[Leonardo]

I hope there is a legal challenge to this. Religion has no place in government - national, regional or local.

Of course, I am under no illusion that the UK's government is truly secular...

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

So it's Christian prayers on Monday, Muslim on Tuesday, Buddhist on Wednesday I presume so all the faiths are accounted for... no?

[spud the mackem]

If someone is not of the same faith as the group do they have to leave the room ?

[Insaniac]

All this means is if the Government ever decides to take away the right to pray (and they will) theres not a damn thing you can do about it, assuming you follow the law. Wouldn't be the first time they've tried removing God out of the picture.

Edited by Insaniac, 12 April 2012 - 08:30 AM.

[and then]

For those who think it a bad decision I have a question.  If it has been a tradition that has held sway for decades or longer, what harm is there in allowing a simple invocation PRIOR to business being discussed or decided?  Like it or not the Western world's morality has been shaped by the Judeo-Christian ethic and many still take comfort in it.  
For all of you intelligent and oh so worldly types who are chagrined by a simple "superstition" I ask what real harm does it do beyond offending some of your highly sensitive principles?  
Look at civic life today in the West and tell me it is better, or even equal to the cordiality and respect it once held.  You are willingly obtuse and biased if you will sacrifice good order and respectful relations in the public square just so you can be considered progressive in your outlook.  JMO, of course....

[shadowhive]

and then, on 12 April 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

For those who think it a bad decision I have a question.  If it has been a tradition that has held sway for decades or longer, what harm is there in allowing a simple invocation PRIOR to business being discussed or decided?  Like it or not the Western world's morality has been shaped by the Judeo-Christian ethic and many still take comfort in it.  
For all of you intelligent and oh so worldly types who are chagrined by a simple "superstition" I ask what real harm does it do beyond offending some of your highly sensitive principles?  
Look at civic life today in the West and tell me it is better, or even equal to the cordiality and respect it once held.  You are willingly obtuse and biased if you will sacrifice good order and respectful relations in the public square just so you can be considered progressive in your outlook.  JMO, of course....

Even in the original ruling you could still pray PRIOR to buisness being discussed, just not as part of the council meeting. In secular society town councils represent the people. Are all these people christian? Nope. They're pagan and atheists an others besides. What prayer as part of the meeting does is single out one above all others and making it a part of meeting which isn't the place for such things. If you want to pray that much, you're still free too, just not during the meeting.

Personally this doesn't seem like a good idea since religion (even one which 'shaped the Western world's morality') shouldn't have a place in government.

[and then]

shadowhive, on 12 April 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Even in the original ruling you could still pray PRIOR to buisness being discussed, just not as part of the council meeting. In secular society town councils represent the people. Are all these people christian? Nope. They're pagan and atheists an others besides. What prayer as part of the meeting does is single out one above all others and making it a part of meeting which isn't the place for such things. If you want to pray that much, you're still free too, just not during the meeting.

Personally this doesn't seem like a good idea since religion (even one which 'shaped the Western world's morality') shouldn't have a place in government.

And that attitude seems to be relatively new to the scene since these kinds of prayers have been around for many years.  But above all I say that the majority should decide this.  If a community feels so strongly that there is no place for prayer in public venues then so be it.  It just seems a harmless thing to cause so much contentiousness.

[TheLastLazyGun]

Essan, on 11 April 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Whilst I disapprove of banning them, I fail to see why archaic religious ceremonies should be a part of 21st century council discussions.

What do you mean by "archaic"?  If a group of councillors what to pray before meetings - as is traditional in our Christian country - then what has it got to do with you or anybody else?

If religious ceremonies are so "archaic" why do councils spends thousands of pounds of taxpayers money so they can build lots of brand-spanking new mosques?

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 12 April 2012 - 01:49 PM.

[TheLastLazyGun]

Leonardo, on 11 April 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

I hope there is a legal challenge to this. Religion has no place in government - national, regional or local.

Says who?

[TheLastLazyGun]

Wearer of Hats, on 12 April 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

So it's Christian prayers on Monday, Muslim on Tuesday, Buddhist on Wednesday I presume so all the faiths are accounted for... no?

They wouldn't dare to ban Muslim prayers.  You go to many public buildings around Britain and private rooms are set aside just so that Muslims can pray in them.  For some reason the authorities don't seem to might that someone might get offended at Muslims praying.

Nope, it's only Christian prayers that are targetted.

[shadowhive]

and then, on 12 April 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

And that attitude seems to be relatively new to the scene since these kinds of prayers have been around for many years.  But above all I say that the majority should decide this.  If a community feels so strongly that there is no place for prayer in public venues then so be it.  It just seems a harmless thing to cause so much contentiousness.

There are many things that were 'around for many years' that does not make them good, right or moral nor does it make them instantly more valid. Let me ask you, would your attitude be the same if the prayers were from another faith? Would it still be harmless then, or would you complain? Ater all it would be just as 'harmless' for a jewish, muslim or pagan prayer in place of a christian one in theory.

[TheLastLazyGun]

shadowhive, on 12 April 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

There are many things that were 'around for many years' that does not make them good, right or moral nor does it make them instantly more valid. Let me ask you, would your attitude be the same if the prayers were from another faith? Would it still be harmless then, or would you complain? Ater all it would be just as 'harmless' for a jewish, muslim or pagan prayer in place of a christian one in theory.

It's a waste of time asking that question.  The authorities would never ban prayers of religions other than Christianity.  They would deem that to be racist.

Put it this way: If I went and complained that I find offensive the mosque that is being built near me in northern England, with its huge dome and minarets, would the authorities stop the building of it?  Would they hell.  They'd tell me to go away and stop being racist.  They wouldn't come out with all the clap-trap about "religion has no play in a secular society like Britain."

Yet when some goon says he finds Christian prayers at just one council meeting "offensive" the authorities then go and try to ban prayers at council meeting all over the country.

It seems that it's one rule for Christianity and another for all other religions (especially Islam).

Eric Pickles was right to say that such prayers at council meetings should be allowed to take place.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 12 April 2012 - 02:11 PM.