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Is this true for christians?


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#16    Mr Walker

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:04 PM

The OP is just a constructed stereotype designed to either inflame or amuse but not clever enough to do either very well. :devil:


I know many people who would consider themselves biblical based christians. (the term fundamentalist is almost never used in regard to such christians in australia although technically it is accurate in that they hold to the fundamental truths of the bible.)
They believe in creation and a real interventionist god. I admit none of them are americans but none go any where near the image portrayed in the OP. I suspect thats because it is so sterotypical it doesnt exist in real life.
They are loving, caring, giving, kind, and friendly, people.

They dont necessarily care what other people believe although they might feel mildly sorry for nonbelievers.

They dont believe in evolution but dont feel insulted by those who say they are descended from primates, just think them a bit funny to hold such an odd idea :devil: .

They dont laugh at anyones beliefs, although they might, again, feel sad for  people who have no belief in anything.

They love people and are peaceful folk, and so they get upset at any deaths/killings, especially the young and innocent, and particularly the youngest and most innocent, the unborn.

They chose a belief based life, based on spiritual wisdoms. They acknolwedge the beliefs and wisdoms of all spiritual based life, even if they dont always agree with the particulars of difernt beliefs.

They believe the earth is 6000 years old. Scientific ideas come second to belief, because belief is more integral to their existence. It doent really matter to a spiritual based person how old the earth is, but ones happiness and  spiritual well being is essential. They have very different basic priorities about life.

The biblically based christians i know, realise the bible says that at our death we go to sleep. We are awakened on the judgement days. Some will die a second death of body and soul, some will have eternal life. None will go to hell for eternity. That is Not bibilical.

They are logical enough not to confuse material  evidences  and spiritual evidences, or compare chalk and cheese. :devil:

For them, god always answers their prayers. That is 100% success rate. :innocent: Because they have faith in god, they accept that those answers can come in differnt forms.

They have actually read the bible dozens of times. Many study it for an hour or two every, day both formally and informally. Taking notes, cross referencing different versions, checking concordances, maps and dictionaries . They question and seek answers to pieces they dont understand. Some have been doing this for  many decades. I suspect they know more about the bible and its intricacies, languages, symbologies, social contexts, and writers, etc., than almost all atheists. Many have online capabilities to check different languages and interpretations of the bible.
They meet in groups, take online lessons, and study by themselves. Many make comparative studies of religions and have a good working knowledge, not just of many forms of christianity, but of all the world's religions, because faith, spirituality and religion, is a passion for them, like stamp collecting.

Like me, most of them wouldn't recognise the sterotype presented in the OP.

Edited by Mr Walker, 12 April 2012 - 12:09 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#17    J. K.

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:17 PM

One of the things that escapes a number of non-Christians is that there are many, many different variations of Christian belief, and not all of the beliefs are equivalent.  Consider the Lifesavers candy: it's incorrect to say that ALL Lifesavers are cherry, or all are peppermint.  Likewise, not all Christians are identical in their beliefs.

Speaking as one who has been active in Christian leadership for 35 years, and interacted with numerous denominations, I would say that those who we could consider to be 'fundamentalist' are not the majority of believers.  Additionally, for example, not all Christians are the rolling-on-the-floor type.

Are there Christians out there who I would consider to be far out on the fringes of belief?  Sure.  I once made the acquaintance of a gentleman who said he was visited by an angel who told him that God's real personal name is Chakoa.  I found his experience to be questionable, but I didn't berate him about it.

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#18    fullywired

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:31 PM

Christians who consider themselves as normal guys and who believe that the OP was stereotyping  can put themselves to the test by running through the ten points and asking themselves ,is this what I believe  and add their score at the end ,What would you think a good score should be for the good guys?

               fullywired

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#19    kaptn k

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:42 PM

View Posteverwonder, on 12 April 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian 10 -You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours. 9 -You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt. 8 -You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God. 7 -Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees! 6 -You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. 5 -You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old. 4 -You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs --though excluding those in all rival sects -will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving." 3 -While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. 2 -You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. 1 -You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -but still call yourself a Christian.

*SOURCE - Please keep in mind that when quoting websites you need to cite all sources, thank you ~ PA


What's ur thought on these or is it totaly wrong?

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#20    Paranoid Android

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:21 PM

View Postfullywired, on 12 April 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

Christians who consider themselves as normal guys and who believe that the OP was stereotyping  can put themselves to the test by running through the ten points and asking themselves ,is this what I believe  and add their score at the end ,What would you think a good score should be for the good guys?

               fullywired
Since you bring it up, I'll share my thoughts.  Without going into complete detail of each question (I can give you further details via PM if you like as to how I came to this score), I score myself somewhere between 2-2.5/10 (based on each question being worth 1 point, and possibly less depending on how relevant it is to my belief)  What do YOU think a good score should be for the "good guys"?

Edited by Paranoid Android, 12 April 2012 - 05:37 PM.

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#21    J. K.

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:33 PM

After re-reading the list, I think I would replace the word 'Fundamentalist' with 'insecure' or possibly 'shallow.'

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#22    msm57

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:47 PM

View Postand then, on 12 April 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

I'm not among the so called "fundamentalists" I guess because I don't have anger for people of other beliefs. I exercise discernment when their belief system threatens my life, though. I do get a bit peeved when people post things like this with the obvious intention of mindlessly pushing buttons.  I guess it makes me wonder why people who disbelieve, or consider my faith in Christ as akin to a child believing in a fairytale, bother to take the time to explain to me my error.  What purpose does it serve in their life?  In fact, why does it matter to them at all other than to serve as some kind of sport or amusement?  
The one thing that I know with absolute certainty is that we are all on the way to the grave eventually.  The only thing of any real importance that any of us can accomplish is to ease the burdens of our brothers while we're making the trip.  By accepting and striving to live Christ's message, however imperfectly, we leave a better legacy than any who only add to the strife and ill will in this world.
So what about you? Do you?...everwonder?

Well said, and then!  I take issue with the bolded items also.  I just don't understand why?  Can't we just all get along?  I'm not "fundamentalist" & certainly not a perfect example of a Christian.  Why should anyone be singled out and picked on over what they believe?


#23    msm57

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:58 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 12 April 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

The OP is just a constructed stereotype designed to either inflame or amuse but not clever enough to do either very well. :devil:


I know many people who would consider themselves biblical based christians. (the term fundamentalist is almost never used in regard to such christians in australia although technically it is accurate in that they hold to the fundamental truths of the bible.)
They believe in creation and a real interventionist god. I admit none of them are americans but none go any where near the image portrayed in the OP. I suspect thats because it is so sterotypical it doesnt exist in real life.
They are loving, caring, giving, kind, and friendly, people.

They dont necessarily care what other people believe although they might feel mildly sorry for nonbelievers.

They dont believe in evolution but dont feel insulted by those who say they are descended from primates, just think them a bit funny to hold such an odd idea :devil: .

They dont laugh at anyones beliefs, although they might, again, feel sad for  people who have no belief in anything.

They love people and are peaceful folk, and so they get upset at any deaths/killings, especially the young and innocent, and particularly the youngest and most innocent, the unborn.

They chose a belief based life, based on spiritual wisdoms. They acknolwedge the beliefs and wisdoms of all spiritual based life, even if they dont always agree with the particulars of difernt beliefs.

They believe the earth is 6000 years old. Scientific ideas come second to belief, because belief is more integral to their existence. It doent really matter to a spiritual based person how old the earth is, but ones happiness and  spiritual well being is essential. They have very different basic priorities about life.

The biblically based christians i know, realise the bible says that at our death we go to sleep. We are awakened on the judgement days. Some will die a second death of body and soul, some will have eternal life. None will go to hell for eternity. That is Not bibilical.

They are logical enough not to confuse material  evidences  and spiritual evidences, or compare chalk and cheese. :devil:

For them, god always answers their prayers. That is 100% success rate. :innocent: Because they have faith in god, they accept that those answers can come in differnt forms.

They have actually read the bible dozens of times. Many study it for an hour or two every, day both formally and informally. Taking notes, cross referencing different versions, checking concordances, maps and dictionaries . They question and seek answers to pieces they dont understand. Some have been doing this for  many decades. I suspect they know more about the bible and its intricacies, languages, symbologies, social contexts, and writers, etc., than almost all atheists. Many have online capabilities to check different languages and interpretations of the bible.
They meet in groups, take online lessons, and study by themselves. Many make comparative studies of religions and have a good working knowledge, not just of many forms of christianity, but of all the world's religions, because faith, spirituality and religion, is a passion for them, like stamp collecting.

Like me, most of them wouldn't recognise the sterotype presented in the OP.

:tu:  :tu:  :tu: Excellent! Excellent! Excellent!


#24    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 06:26 PM

View Posteverwonder, on 12 April 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian 10 -You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours. 9 -You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt. 8 -You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God. 7 -Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees! 6 -You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. 5 -You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old. 4 -You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs --though excluding those in all rival sects -will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving." 3 -While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. 2 -You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. 1 -You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -but still call yourself a Christian.

*SOURCE - Please keep in mind that when quoting websites you need to cite all sources, thank you ~ PA


What's ur thought on these or is it totaly wrong?

I just looked at that site a few days ago and thought about making a topic, I do think christians are like that^.

“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” - Blaise Pascal

#25    fullywired

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:18 PM

View PostParanoid Android, on 12 April 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Since you bring it up, I'll share my thoughts.  Without going into complete detail of each question (I can give you further details via PM if you like as to how I came to this score), I score myself somewhere between 2-2.5/10 (based on each question being worth 1 point, and possibly less depending on how relevant it is to my belief)  What do YOU think a good score should be for the "good guys"?

I think there is a modicum of truth in all the points,so if someone was declare that it was all bunkum,they would  cancel themselves out as Christians and remember we are talking of Christian beliefs not a selected edition of it ,I think a minimum of 4 points is required to qualify as a Christian

               fullywired

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"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
-------Buddha (563 - 483 BC)

#26    J. K.

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:30 PM

View Postfullywired, on 12 April 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

I think there is a modicum of truth in all the points,so if someone was declare that it was all bunkum,they would  cancel themselves out as Christians and remember we are talking of Christian beliefs not a selected edition of it ,I think a minimum of 4 points is required to qualify as a Christian

               fullywired

I would have to disagree with part of your statement.  You said, "We are talking of Christian beliefs not a selected edition of it," yet the list refers to Fundamentalist Christians.  "Fundamentalist" is a selected edition.

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#27    fullywired

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 08:17 PM

View PostJ. K., on 12 April 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

I would have to disagree with part of your statement.  You said, "We are talking of Christian beliefs not a selected edition of it," yet the list refers to Fundamentalist Christians.  "Fundamentalist" is a selected edition.

Not necessarily so ,as earlier posts said "fundamentalists believe in the inerrancy of scripture and literal acceptance of the creed ".it is the later editions made by cherry pickers that spawned all the different versions
     fullywired

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"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
-------Buddha (563 - 483 BC)

#28    J. K.

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:08 PM

View Postfullywired, on 12 April 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

Not necessarily so ,as earlier posts said "fundamentalists believe in the inerrancy of scripture and literal acceptance of the creed ".it is the later editions made by cherry pickers that spawned all the different versions
     fullywired

I do not understand what you are communicating with this statement, particularly in context with your previous statement.  Are you implying that Fundamentalists are the only true Christians?  Believing in the inerrancy of Scripture is not the sole qualification of being of Fundamentalist, nor is it limited to those who are Fundamentalist.  Are you saying that the later editions are not really Christians?

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#29    Mr Walker

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:39 PM

View Postfullywired, on 12 April 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

I think there is a modicum of truth in all the points,so if someone was declare that it was all bunkum,they would  cancel themselves out as Christians and remember we are talking of Christian beliefs not a selected edition of it ,I think a minimum of 4 points is required to qualify as a Christian

               fullywired
I am not normally a suspicious bloke, but reading the Op it seemed to me to be constructed like a piece of writing where one reasonable and given truth is used to "prove" other unreasonable and untrue statements. Hence,  while it is probable that  christians hold some of the basic and less controversial tenets,  I would think that very few transfer those beliefs to the more obnoxious beliefs or tenets described in the OP. Then again I am not a "believer" in any of the things outlined in the Op. I am judging by the many believers I know personally

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#30    Arbitran

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:32 AM

View PostRealm, on 12 April 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

No thoughts here.. Just rules ignored.

Please always respect the beliefs of other members - the bashing of specific religions, countries, races or belief systems is strictly disallowed. Several of the topics in this section cover some sensitive areas and it is important to respect the views of others; this means no flaming, no flamebaiting, no trolling and no personal attacks. We must also ask that members do not use the forums to promote or 'preach' their personal spiritual beliefs to others.

No rules have been broken here. Beliefs have been respected. There is a difference between respect and disagreement.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison




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