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Is this true for christians?


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#31    Paranoid Android

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:42 AM

View Postfullywired, on 12 April 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

I think there is a modicum of truth in all the points,so if someone was declare that it was all bunkum,they would  cancel themselves out as Christians and remember we are talking of Christian beliefs not a selected edition of it ,I think a minimum of 4 points is required to qualify as a Christian

               fullywired
You think 4 is a minimum to constitute being Christian?  Ok, I guess I am going to have to explain my 2-2.5/10 answer.  Tell me where you think I need an extra 1.5 points (minimum) to qualify as "Christian"?

10 -You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours. - I do deny the existence of other gods, but I do not feel outraged when someone denies the existence of mine.  0 points.

9 -You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt. - I am a Theistic Evolutionist and therefore have no problem with the scientific explanation of life, and that evolution (if that is how we came to be) is a process that was guided by God.  0 points.

8 -You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God. - I do not laugh at polytheists, but I do believe in one God who is comprised of a triune element.  1/2 point.

7 -Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees! - I often defend the Qu'ran under the same "out of context" view as people use against the Bible.  But I do defend the "atrocities" (including the evil done against trees, lol) in the Bible as necessary actions.  1/2 point.

6 -You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. - I do not laugh at Hindu or Greek claims about their gods.  But I do believe that Jesus is fully 100% God.  1/2 point.

5 -You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old. - I have no problem believing the age of the earth to be billions of years.  0 points.

4 -You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs --though excluding those in all rival sects -will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving." - I do not believe that non-Christians will suffer for eternity, but I do believe there are eternal consequences for not believing.  For the sake of argument I give a full 1 point for this, because I do believe in consequences for rejecting Jesus.

3 -While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. - I'm not a Pentacostal/Charismatic, I don't put stock in Tongues and rolling on the floor.  0 points.

2 -You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. - I believe God answers 100% of prayers.  He may not always answer them in the way we want him to, but he answers all.  0 points.

1 -You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -but still call yourself a Christian. - I don't want to sound like I'm boasting, but I think I have a fairly good grasp of the Bible, Christianity, and church history.  And I still call myself a Christian.  0 points.

Total - 2.5/10

Where in this list do you feel I should be more "Christian" in my belief?

~ PA

Edited by Paranoid Android, 13 April 2012 - 06:42 AM.

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#32    Arbenol

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:56 AM

View PostParanoid Android, on 13 April 2012 - 06:42 AM, said:


Where in this list do you feel I should be more "Christian" in my belief?


I'd give you a full point for No.2. That still leaves you half point short!

I think you're denying yourself scores due to the confrontational nature of the OP. You sound like a Christian to me - just not one of the really mad ones. :w00t:


#33    Paranoid Android

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:07 AM

View PostArbenol68, on 13 April 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

I'd give you a full point for No.2. That still leaves you half point short!

I think you're denying yourself scores due to the confrontational nature of the OP. You sound like a Christian to me - just not one of the really mad ones. :w00t:
Think of it this way, if one of the statements read "you believe in a triune God", I'd say yes, 1 full point.  But it didn't read that.  It read "You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God"!  But I don't laugh at polytheists, so how can I give a full point to that question?  Going by the questions asked, I can only in good conscience give myself 2.5/10.  I do not rile against Allah, or laugh at polytheists, or believe the earth only thousands of years old, I'm not Pentacostal....

Edited by Paranoid Android, 13 April 2012 - 07:29 AM.

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#34    eight bits

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:00 AM

PA

Evil Bible is rarely remarkable for its restraint. In this case, however, its claim is fairly straightforward. A distinctive kind of Christian exists who accepts all ten items, and those who do are probably fairly called "fundamentalist."

To pervert the claim in an attempt to make the list definitional of all Chrisitians is no doubt a gratifying fantasy for bashers, but it is simply untenable. It is also bigotted stereotyping, but bigotry is tolerated and protected when Christians are targeted.

One of the issues (number 1) is independent of any specific faith: how much someone knows about their own faith and its history compared with selected non-members. There is some irony that the author apparently lost track of which Egyptian babies died in Exodus (see item 7), but yes of course. Some non-Muslims know more about Islam than some Muslims. It's not even peculiar to religion: you see the same thing in political ideology, economic systems, etc.

Overestimation of personal relevant knowledge may be diagnostic of fundamentalism, but if so, then it is likely a feature of every variety of extremism, not just religious.

Three of the questions (3, 5 and 9) concern opinions about secular subjects, and five more (4, 6, 7, 8 and 10) concern beliefs about, reactions to, and relations with other religions. I think these questions are fair for discerning fundamentalists from others, but have no relationship at all to the religious opinions of other Christians.

Like other modern people, mainstreamers seem unremarkable in distinguishing the concerns of science from the concerns of spirit. Like other civilized people, many Christians treat other people's conceptions of the sacred with reverence and respect.

The remaining question concerns prayer for temporal effect. I am unsure where the "one percent of one percent" figure comes from. If there actually were such a showing, then I for one would be very interested. If there is no God, then the expected figure is identically zero. However, believing in a god who answers some prayers is not peculiar to Christianity, and many Christians turn to prayer for other reasons entirely.

The bottom line is that many Christians get the same score as many Jews, many Muslims, many Ba'hai, ..., and a heathen like me: zip for ten. And that is perfectly consistent with the actual claim made in the OP, that a distinctive kind of Christian exists with all of the listed attributes.

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#35    Paranoid Android

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:43 AM

View Posteight bits, on 13 April 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

PA

Evil Bible is rarely remarkable for its restraint. In this case, however, its claim is fairly straightforward. A distinctive kind of Christian exists who accepts all ten items, and those who do are probably fairly called "fundamentalist."

The bottom line is that many Christians get the same score as many Jews, many Muslims, many Ba'hai, ..., and a heathen like me: zip for ten. And that is perfectly consistent with the actual claim made in the OP, that a distinctive kind of Christian exists with all of the listed attributes.
I know it's about fundamentalists, I mentioned that in my first post in this thread. I was addressing fullywired, who suggested that if this is a stereotype then mark ourselves against the criteria (presumably thinking that it would be closer to the truth than we may think).  So I did, and came up with 2.5/10.  Fullywired then suggested a minimum of 4 is required to consider oneself a "Christian".  I guess I'm trying to point out to him how his reasoning is flawed, I don't actually think this list should be indicative of Christianity.

Edited by Paranoid Android, 13 April 2012 - 08:43 AM.

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#36    eight bits

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:57 AM

I didn't think you did, PA. I believe my critique is in many ways distinct from yours.

You seem to have the "four or fewer" aspect of fullywired's concerns covered. I emphasized a quantitatively diferent question, whether a score of zero is compatible with devout Chrisitan faith. For the reasons stated, I find zero out of ten to be fully compatible with Christian faith, contrary to another claim of fullywired's.

Other views are possible, and any actual Christian's personal score may be anything at all in the range available. Also, I have paid a debt of fundamental fairness. I have criticized "Evil Bible" in the past, so it is only fair for me to acknowledge that for the purpose they claimed, and despite the obviously argumentative character of some of their questions, some Chrisitans just might get a ten, and those who do might fairly be called fundamentalist.

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#37    Paranoid Android

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:06 AM

Fair enough, 8bits.  I think we are not quite so different in our answers as you may think.  I agree that any Christian might have any score and a perfect 10 person could rightly be called a Fundamentalist.  I guess I was taking it personal because the implication of FW's post is that if I don't reach a minimum then I'm not a real Christian.  I will disagree with you in one area - I doubt any true Christian would score an absolute zero on the questions presented, unless it is taken as a true/false statement, in which case the statement is either 100% accurate and gain 1 point, or it is a 0 point.  If I was taking that scale, then I would score a 0/10 also (even the question I gave myself a full point for was not 100% accurate in that I don't believe in eternal suffering, but I do believe in eternal consequences).  But if we take some statements as half-right or partly correct then we have to score it at least half a point.

Edited by Paranoid Android, 13 April 2012 - 09:08 AM.

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#38    eight bits

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:13 AM

There is something very schoolteacherly in your sweating the grading on a quiz :).

My score of zero does indeed reflect that each item is propositional, and so each is answered yes or no.

Besides, if I'm giving any credit for believing in a Triune God, capital-T and capital- G, which I believe is your obligatory half-point, and the purpose of the quiz is to detect Christians as fullywired proposes, then the appropriate credit is ten points. Believing in a Triune God, capitalized, simply restates the Nicene and Apostle's Creed.  

We would therefore have our answer, and could skip the other nine questions, along with the remainder of that numbered question as well.

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#39    fullywired

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:37 PM

View PostParanoid Android, on 13 April 2012 - 06:42 AM, said:

You think 4 is a minimum to constitute being Christian?  Ok, I guess I am going to have to explain my 2-2.5/10 answer.  Tell me where you think I need an extra 1.5 points (minimum) to qualify as "Christian"?

10 -You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours. - I do deny the existence of other gods, but I do not feel outraged when someone denies the existence of mine.  0 points.

9 -You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt. - I am a Theistic Evolutionist and therefore have no problem with the scientific explanation of life, and that evolution (if that is how we came to be) is a process that was guided by God.  0 points.

8 -You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God. - I do not laugh at polytheists, but I do believe in one God who is comprised of a triune element.  1/2 point.

7 -Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees! - I often defend the Qu'ran under the same "out of context" view as people use against the Bible.  But I do defend the "atrocities" (including the evil done against trees, lol) in the Bible as necessary actions.  1/2 point.

6 -You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. - I do not laugh at Hindu or Greek claims about their gods.  But I do believe that Jesus is fully 100% God.  1/2 point.

5 -You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old. - I have no problem believing the age of the earth to be billions of years.  0 points.

4 -You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs --though excluding those in all rival sects -will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving." - I do not believe that non-Christians will suffer for eternity, but I do believe there are eternal consequences for not believing.  For the sake of argument I give a full 1 point for this, because I do believe in consequences for rejecting Jesus.

3 -While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. - I'm not a Pentacostal/Charismatic, I don't put stock in Tongues and rolling on the floor.  0 points.

2 -You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. - I believe God answers 100% of prayers.  He may not always answer them in the way we want him to, but he answers all.  0 points.

1 -You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -but still call yourself a Christian. - I don't want to sound like I'm boasting, but I think I have a fairly good grasp of the Bible, Christianity, and church history.  And I still call myself a Christian.  0 points.

Total - 2.5/10

Where in this list do you feel I should be more "Christian" in my belief?

~ PA

For a start I feel you have been a little economical with your scoring
number two answer was a cop out,.if prayers are answered 100% then you get what you asked for ,not an edited version of it..Had the post been couched in a more gentle and a less confrontational way .scores would have been greater

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#40    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:44 PM

View Posteverwonder, on 12 April 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

What's ur thought on these or is it totaly wrong?

Well lets see...

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian


10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.


Very  True they will deny the existence of other Gods.. Their bible tells them there is only one..

..Only some will feel outraged when someone the existence of theirs..I have seen this...
Others will just argue theirs is valid and  debate it   as much as possible...
Some wont care to argue, they are fully confident and  wont feel their faith is a weapon  
Some will feel insulted if you show any skeptic remarks  that will call their faith  a myth..And chant the usual -  This is stereotyping, this is an attack...Or the famous - You just hate us because we are Christian... So it is a mix of all sorts ..

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

Ha ha  YES...So many have done and shown it on here many times over
Some wont care to.
Some accept evolution and may believe God assisted it ...So it is a mixture

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

Some will  I have to agree and  those that do, fail to see the irony of the trinity worship...  

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

I am afraid this is very true for many I have read  on here and heard in real life...  So many will do this and  wont care to look at their own God and what is written... They would rather try and side step it, excuse it and find ways to make it look as if it was needed to be carried out and   the ole - Well that's how it all was in those times.. But still many of these people will slam Muslims for the same for of thing... Irony escapes most of these people

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

This is true for so many Christians...   Irony of it will not sink in..But I said  SO MANY.. and that does not mean all...  

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

Unfortunately we know for a fact  so many will do this and are guilty of the lot..   I know not all do....it takes  intelligence to understand these things.. So those that don't are not intelligent

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering.  And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

I have to agree with this... The majority of Christians I have ever met in my life, will all believe in this...   I have only ever met  one or maybe two that don't....  

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.


Very true for a lot of Christians I have known  and seen on line..  But this only applies to those that  have no interest in science, cannot comprehend it and  would rather stick with wacky  claims   of speaking in tongue and think this is better proof...  EVEN  go as far as to think that reading or hearing  about an NDE  is proof of Christianity... Sad but very true

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers.  You consider that to be evidence that prayer works.  And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

Many are like this ....  I have a mother in law who never cared to set foot near a church, once laughed at the idea of tuning born again.... She got a cancer scare  nearly two years ago.. She didn't need chemo, it was not cancer in full.. She was treated.. and her fundei sister  convinced her God saved her for a reason ..So now she is born again claiming God answered her prayers and chose to save her.. This is full proof..... These two women  think they can push my daughter into church and church  activities  

  This annoys me, the sheer ignorance of it all.. She had a  loving brother in law ( Gerald )   who  served the church and Jesus all his life... He worked for the church  ( mostly  technical support  and fund raiser  ) ..helped the community...was very much dedicated to the Christian church. ( Gerald played in the Church choir every Sunday and conducted  it for many years) ..He died  3 years  ago of brain cancer  that spread.....    Prayers were said for a long time to save him and  nothing happened... Yet she feels she is more of a priority....    Too many like her and it is very sickening  and at the same time  ....SAD

Moral of the story -    If you never cared to set foot near a Christian Church... If you even claimed you were like some atheist.. But get a scare, something happens, you get lucky.......Then you are more likely to be like  my mother in law and think you are above the rest who actually dedicated themselves  to the same Church and faith all their lives  without  having to face any scare to make them do it...They did it all out of respect and love.You never did before hand...Your ignorance and arrogances  is invisible to you...And you do need pitied

FACT IS - God does NOT answer 100 %  of all prayers... Not all are answered.. Making up excuses to say he answers them in mysterious ways.. is  cobblers...Especially if the prayers  are asking to save someone's life  and so on  they die and suffer as a result..What is so mysterious about that? ..He didn't answer  Gerald's prayers or his Christian fmaily's    Many like Gerald... So  it is  a load of cobblers to claim he answers 100 % ...

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian

Absolutely true for  a number of Christians I have met...( again not meaning all )   The sec  I mention something from their bible.. they give me a strange look and say - I didn't know that?  OR  No WAY this cannot be right...I must look this up.....  Some get angered by it and claim  I am making it up  lol.....But see I never have needed to .. it was all there...  

I feel another one should have made the list...Calling it no 11

11 -   If you see  someone who is Non Christian question your faith  and point out facts  that can't be denied... Get angry, and claim they are only attacking the faith in badness..    Only do this IF you cannot answer their\questions.... Sit in constant denial of facts from the past...  Claim it is all just some ambush...And  convince yourself  that's exactly what it is ....Not care if it all makes you look like a sap...Ignore the fact that these thing can easily be discussed without your  outburst  ....

The amount of times I have seen so many  actively do this and then some  lol   Getting angered  over their faith being under question.. all because they cannot answer.. they claim it is under fire and  create a tantrum...I shake my head at it all...I think people that do this are just dense  !!..

. Thank goodness not all will do this.. I admire those that can handle questions about their faith   and  even  peg them as misunderstandings.. I can tolerate this no problem..But the crying I cannot stand..   All this - You are stereotyping, attacking, ambush,  under fire... How dare you do this..typical attacks.. <-- Trashy  idiot  responses  in my opinion..


So to the OP  ...I do not think your thread  is in any way offensive  or wrong... It is only true for so many Christians.. It is not true for all..  So I see no harm in the OP...Posted Image

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 13 April 2012 - 03:00 PM.

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#41    fullywired

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:02 PM

View PostJ. K., on 12 April 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

I do not understand what you are communicating with this statement, particularly in context with your previous statement.  Are you implying that Fundamentalists are the only true Christians?  Believing in the inerrancy of Scripture is not the sole qualification of being of Fundamentalist, nor is it limited to those who are Fundamentalist.  Are you saying that the later editions are not really Christians?

What I am saying is and I repeat, there is a modicum of truth in the points ,.I am saying ,if you edit out the inflammatory wording your still left with what Christians believe in  .i have pointed out in previous posts that there are over 3000 so called Christian versions  of Christianity. Are you saying they are all correct, In my opinion 2999 must be wrong unless Jesus meant it to be multiple choice

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#42    J. K.

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:56 PM

View Postfullywired, on 13 April 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

What I am saying is and I repeat, there is a modicum of truth in the points ,.I am saying ,if you edit out the inflammatory wording your still left with what Christians believe in  .i have pointed out in previous posts that there are over 3000 so called Christian versions  of Christianity. Are you saying they are all correct, In my opinion 2999 must be wrong unless Jesus meant it to be multiple choice

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I would agree that I have met some Christians who can meet the qualifications for all ten points, both with and without the inflammatory embellishments.  However, there are also Christians who do not fit all ten points.  

Yes, there are many various beliefs and varieties of doctrine.  However, some of these beliefs do not form the basis for being a Christian in the first place.  

There are really only two or three core beliefs that are required to be tagged as a Christian.  Otherwise, many of the other beliefs - such as the speaking in tongues/rolling on the floor - are matters of personal interpretation and preference.

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#43    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:04 PM

View PostJ. K., on 13 April 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

I would agree that I have met some Christians who can meet the qualifications for all ten points, both with and without the inflammatory embellishments. However, there are also Christians who do not fit all ten points.  



Yes we know.. That is why it is  written  to  show this...  If you read through them and you can tell you do not fit the points raised.. then you know you do not make the list....  That is the general idea...   I gathered this   from reading it myself...    It says - You can tell you are a fundamentalist  IF___________  <-- that means  only some are and some aren't

The real fundies who read it  or may read it.. will not be willing to answer any of it, instead may rant.. Because it hits home...  But that is only SOME

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 13 April 2012 - 08:04 PM.

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#44    Paranoid Android

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 04:39 PM

View Posteight bits, on 13 April 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

There is something very schoolteacherly in your sweating the grading on a quiz :).
Hmm, should I be offended by that statement :P   Ok, probably not, but I guess the point stands that I was "grading" this because it was being graded by others and it was suggested that a 4-out-of-10 was a minimum requirement for someone who called themselves "Christian" :D

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#45    Paranoid Android

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 04:47 PM

View Postfullywired, on 13 April 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

For a start I feel you have been a little economical with your scoring
number two answer was a cop out,.if prayers are answered 100% then you get what you asked for ,not an edited version of it..Had the post been couched in a more gentle and a less confrontational way .scores would have been greater

                                     fullywired
The question stated that I see 0.01% as an impressive success rate.  But I see 100% success rate.  How can I therefore agree with the question, just because the question wants me to see prayers as answered ONLY via miraculous intervention.  But for the sake of argument I'll accede point number 2, where in the rest of the questions is the minimum standard for a Christian?  4-out-of-10 is what you said, even taking 1 full point for that question we are only at 3.5/10.....

Sorry, FW, I understand what you're trying to say, but I cannot agree.  If the article was much less confrontational I would probably agree with more. But its confrontational nature is exactly what brought scores down to begin with.  To use my earlier example, if the question said "You believe in a triune God", I'd 100% agree and give a full point.  But that wasn't the question asked.  The question asked was "you laugh at polytheists".... but still believe in a triune God.  At best I can only give a half point.  Blame the article, not my response :tu:

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