92 replies to this topic

[badeskov]

Arbitran, on 14 April 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

You continue to insist that evidence for extraterrestrials is "non-existent". Did you not read the articles I provided? I did not at any time claim that extraterrestrial life was proven, I said that there is considered, at least, to be evidence. Indeed, the scientists are using qualifying terms such as "maybe": does this change the fact that they consider there to be evidence towards that end? It does not. They believe that there is evidence towards extraterrestrial life. This was my sole meaning in posting the links. To show you that you are indeed quite rare: there is indeed evidence (not "none whatsoever", as you claim), and most of the rest of the world can see that. Why can you not?

First you state this in response to 1Ophelia's question:

Arbitran, on 13 April 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

1Ophelia, on 12 April 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

I'm asking for everyone's opinion wether or not you believe any other life source exsists beyound planet earths atmosphere?

Absolutely yes. Every place where life can take root, it will evolve and adapt to that environment. Not all life results in intelligent life; and not all intelligent life results in space-faring races. But even so, there are millions of space-faring races; far more intelligent species; and billions upon countless billions of worlds where the seeds of life have sprouted.

That is an absolute statement, whether you like or not. You state as fact what is pure conjecture. When that is pointed out, you answer:

Arbitran, on 14 April 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

badeskov, on 14 April 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Because you state as fact what has no evidence whatsoever to support it - that is conjecture. Pure and simple.

Cheers,
Badeskov

It does, however, have evidence to support it. I did not think that on this thread, it would be necessary to cite all of the evidence.

And when it is pointed out that no such evidence exists, you post links to two popular articles clearly showing signs that could indicate life with the attached note that I should inform myself better. Well, guess what, I happen to be informed and clearly said articles that you parade only shows that it is possible life can exist, not that there actually is life. The only thing it is evidence of is an environment where there could be life, it is not evidence of life. See the difference?

And it is duly noted that you skipped the question on how faster communications is possible.

Cheers,
Badeskov

[badeskov]

Arbitran, on 14 April 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Did the articles not say that they may have discovered evidence of extraterrestrial life? That was my sole purpose in posting them: to note that there is considered to be evidence.

With emphasis on may. Big difference there. It could also be from other sources.

Quote

I never said that it was proven. I said that there was evidence.

Yes, and you are still wrong. It is not evidence of life. That is but one possibility. Could be many others.

Cheers,
Badeskov

[ShadowSot]

Arbitran, define conjecture for me so I can be sure you know what it means. Please don't use a dictionary, put it in your own words.

[Arbitran]

badeskov, on 14 April 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

First you state this in response to 1Ophelia's question:



That is an absolute statement, whether you like or not. You state as fact what is pure conjecture. When that is pointed out, you answer:




And when it is pointed out that no such evidence exists, you post links to two popular articles clearly showing signs that could indicate life with the attached note that I should inform myself better. Well, guess what, I happen to be informed and clearly said articles that you parade only shows that it is possible life can exist, not that there actually is life. The only thing it is evidence of is an environment where there could be life, it is not evidence of life. See the difference?

And it is duly noted that you skipped the question on how faster communications is possible.

Cheers,
Badeskov

I apologize if my initial statement was rather empirical, but that it my own belief.

The articles however did not merely state that an environment was present for life--they clearly stated that evidence may exist for life being present there. Or did you only read the parts you wanted?

I myself am not certain as to how super-luminal communications can be achieved. The best answer I think lies in quantum teleportation.

[Arbitran]

badeskov, on 14 April 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

With emphasis on may. Big difference there. It could also be from other sources.



Yes, and you are still wrong. It is not evidence of life. That is but one possibility. Could be many others.

Cheers,
Badeskov

What are some others? Clearly the scientists studying it regard extraterrestrial life to be the most probably explanation.

Feel free to offer up some alternate, ingenious answer.

[Arbitran]

ShadowSot, on 14 April 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

Arbitran, define conjecture for me so I can be sure you know what it means. Please don't use a dictionary, put it in your own words.

This is senseless. Conjecture can be considered essentially synonymous with speculation. I am aware of the meaning.

It just seems as though too large a gap between conjecture and evidence is being made here.

Yes, it may be largely speculative, but by those who are studying it, extraterrestrial life is considered the most probable explanation. The facts go towards the implication that life has taken root on Titan and Mars. Or do you all deny even the facts of the case?

[ShadowSot]

Arbitran, on 14 April 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

This is senseless. Conjecture can be considered essentially synonymous with speculation. I am aware of the meaning.

It just seems as though too large a gap between conjecture and evidence is being made here.

Yes, it may be largely speculative, but by those who are studying it, extraterrestrial life is considered the most probable explanation. The facts go towards the implication that life has taken root on Titan and Mars. Or do you all deny even the facts of the case?

Arbitran, none of the articles you linked stated that the most probable cause was life, instead it's suggested as one of other possible causes. The articles spin this as being the sole focus as they are more interesting than geological process.

Which again, is why we are pointing out the might and maybes in the articles.

[Arbitran]

ShadowSot, on 14 April 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

Arbitran, none of the articles you linked stated that the most probable cause was life, instead it's suggested as one of other possible causes. The articles spin this as being the sole focus as they are more interesting than geological process.

Which again, is why we are pointing out the might and maybes in the articles.

I never said there weren't "mights" and "maybes" in the articles: I just happen to believe the NASA scientists more than certain others here, it seems.

[zimbob]

Yes their is life.
I see space not unlike the ocean, on the surface we just see alot of water but beneath is a vast eco system totally "alien" to us.

[ShadowSot]

Arbitran, on 14 April 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

I never said there weren't "mights" and "maybes" in the articles: I just happen to believe the NASA scientists more than certain others here, it seems.

Except the scientists did not state that there is definitely life there, just that one explanation could be that there is life on Titan. That's important difference. And, as they note:

Quote

They warned, however, that there could be other explanations for the findings.

[badeskov]

Arbitran, on 14 April 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

What are some others? Clearly the scientists studying it regard extraterrestrial life to be the most probably explanation.

And how exactly do you arrive at the conclusion that the scientists in question find life to be the most probable explanation? They certainly do not state that. Their explanation is just one among many, albeit an exciting one.

Quote

Feel free to offer up some alternate, ingenious answer.

I don't have to, as ShadowSot already pointed out, the scientists themselves say that other options exist. You seriously need to read your sources and try to understand what they are actually saying.

Cheers,
Badeskov

[Arbitran]

ShadowSot, on 14 April 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Except the scientists did not state that there is definitely life there, just that one explanation could be that there is life on Titan. That's important difference. And, as they note:

I did not say that here is definitely life on Titan. I personally believe that there is  life there, yes. But I can see that it is not definitive as of yet.

[ShadowSot]

Arbitran, on 14 April 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

I did not say that here is definitely life on Titan. I personally believe that there is  life there, yes. But I can see that it is not definitive as of yet.

Good to see you've backpedaled to a better position.Maybe you should start from there next time.

[Lion6969]

Arbitran, on 13 April 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

Absolutely yes. Every place where life can take root, it will evolve and adapt to that environment. Not all life results in intelligent life; and not all intelligent life results in space-faring races. But even so, there are millions of space-faring races; far more intelligent species; and billions upon countless billions of worlds where the seeds of life have sprouted.

How do you know the above? You do realise evolutionary mechanisms seemed to be bound to earth, there is no proof of evolution else where. Evolution is only relative to earth, what does that tell you?

[ShadowSot]

Lion6969, on 14 April 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

How do you know the above? You do realise evolutionary mechanisms seemed to be bound to earth, there is no proof of evolution else where. Evolution is only relative to earth, what does that tell you?

That we've not found evidence of life elsewhere, and can only speculate roughly from the only sample we have (Earth.)