96 replies to this topic

[skookum]

This story has all the basic marks to make it a non-story in a few months.  If there is a chance it is accurate then surely they should send a lander that can send samples back to be verified on earth.

[Archimedes]

But if you say that such a protocol exists, then you must be able to provide us with some reason to think it exists.

I haven't followed the news about the recent claims about the VIking news much, but it seems to be like this was a re-examination of old data, not some uncovering of hidden scientific information.  And it also seems to me like the news has been exaggerated as claims that life has been discovered on Mars, and not what it is, evidence suggests that Viking may have discovered complex organic chemicals associated with life.  There's a huge difference between finding life and finding what might be telltale signs of life. This to me is like meteorite Allan Hills, evidence of life on Mars that is borderline and still up for debate.

There's nothing miraculous about old evidence being looked through the lens of newer scientific knowledge.  As our technology and scientific knowledge gets better and more refined we can look back and reevaluate previous data and come to new conclusions about it.  What's so odd or hard to believe about that?

Personally I hope more evidence and future missions confirms life of some sort on Mars as that would be outright awesome even if it was bacteria like life.

[OverSword]

Archimedes, on 13 April 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

But if you say that such a protocol exists, then you must be able to provide us with some reason to think it exists.

The name of the protocol is the same as the thinktank that developed it and it is totaly slipping my mind.  I'll check on my computer when I get home and if I can find it ill send it to your member page.  I also have some GIF's of alledgedly scans from the actual booklet.  

Can you think of a reason why these protocols wouldn't exist?  You know our government is even more paranoid than I am.

[Archimedes]

It wouldn't necessarily surprise me that such a protocol exists.  Governments come up with all sorts of oddball plans for strange situations that never happen.  I'm not going to merely accept as true because it might be.  I don't accept the existence of things I have no proper reason to positively believe in because I can't show they don't exist.


Even if the protocol exists, I'd need some reason to believe that NASA has all sorts of evidence of advanced life out there, and they're just drip feeding us because apparently people would freak out if alien life were discovered.  I don't see any reason to think this is happening.

Even if NASA discovered advanced life elsewhere, it's either some sort of threat to us in which case it makes no sense to drip feed us info over decades.  What are they going to do, go from bacteria to molds to plants to simple animal life to then deciding it's time to tell them that a Vogon destructor fleet is coming and they won't then panic because they've been building up to it?

If it turns out there's plants and animals on Mars (and there almost certainly isn't IMO, at least not now) then they'd just tell us, as there is no reason not to.  No-one is going to panic because forests or animals or whatever are found on Mars.  People would be amazed at the news, and everyday life would go on as it is.  You think people are going to panic or commit suicide because life has been discovered on Mars? I don't buy it.

I just don't buy the necessity for putting such a protocol into action.  It seems like an unnecessary conspiracy for no gain.

[Mallaliak]

Archimedes, on 13 April 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Even if NASA discovered advanced life elsewhere, it's either some sort of threat to us in which case it makes no sense to drip feed us info over decades.  What are they going to do, go from bacteria to molds to plants to simple animal life to then deciding it's time to tell them that a Vogon destructor fleet is coming and they won't then panic because they've been building up to it?

I'd rather they just go with the picture below here. As said, what would change if we discovered life out there, in any form? Certainly religious groups might get a bit of a hassle. Man was created in god's image they say, standing face to face with a Vogon would certainly make anyone question that line of though.

[OverSword]

Archimedes, on 13 April 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

It wouldn't necessarily surprise me that such a protocol exists.  Governments come up with all sorts of oddball plans for strange situations that never happen.  I'm not going to merely accept as true because it might be.  I don't accept the existence of things I have no proper reason to positively believe in because I can't show they don't exist.


Even if the protocol exists, I'd need some reason to believe that NASA has all sorts of evidence of advanced life out there, and they're just drip feeding us because apparently people would freak out if alien life were discovered.  I don't see any reason to think this is happening.

Even if NASA discovered advanced life elsewhere, it's either some sort of threat to us in which case it makes no sense to drip feed us info over decades.  What are they going to do, go from bacteria to molds to plants to simple animal life to then deciding it's time to tell them that a Vogon destructor fleet is coming and they won't then panic because they've been building up to it?

If it turns out there's plants and animals on Mars (and there almost certainly isn't IMO, at least not now) then they'd just tell us, as there is no reason not to.  No-one is going to panic because forests or animals or whatever are found on Mars.  People would be amazed at the news, and everyday life would go on as it is.  You think people are going to panic or commit suicide because life has been discovered on Mars? I don't buy it.

I just don't buy the necessity for putting such a protocol into action.  It seems like an unnecessary conspiracy for no gain.

Where you're mistaken is assuming that I agree with the necessities of said protocols.  I'm just noting that in my opinion they appear to be observing the protocals that I have read.  My real opinion is they paid for all of this stuff with our tax dollars therefore they should be obliged to share all findings with we the tax payers.

[Archimedes]

OverSword, on 13 April 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

I'm just noting that in my opinion they appear to be observing the protocals that I have read.

But why do you think that?

Not only do the protocols not make much sense, it's hard to imagine such nonsensical protocols being put into place, the scientists are NASA agreeing to it, nothing being leaked, etc.

As it is, your are proposing something overly complex that appears the exact same as the more prosaic and simple explanation.  Occam's razor suggests that all else being equal, it makes more sense to take the story at face value - scientists reexamining some old Viking data think it might be evidence of organic chemistry explained by life - as opposed to scientists are telling us this because it is part of a long game whereby they already know of life more advanced than bacteria on Mars and have known this for decades but have decided decades later to slowly release information about it over years and years because some think tank proposed that people would not be able to handle the concept of life on Mars and terrible things would happen to society and this think tank was agreed with and their protocols are being put into place.


Nothing about it makes any sense to me because it appears to be nothing more than pure speculation that an idea that I can't make any sense out of is being put into place when the facts could be much more simply explained by taking them at face value.

[ShadowSot]

Archimedes, on 13 April 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

People panicked during the War of the Worlds broadcast because they were listening to a genuine news report of a malevolent alien force was invading Earth.

Bit more complcated than that,actually. Some people got worried, called the local Police Station and got info on what was going on.
Many more people were worried it was an actual report of open warfare in the US from Germany (Since there were certain events that were happening about that time) and they missed the opening disclaimer to each section.

Several were worried, but continued listening and caught the disclaimer as it returned from break.


A few did think there were aliens, but a minority.

The main freak out occured because they thought that war had broken out and it'd hit US soil. Which since this was around the outbreak of WWII.

Keep in mind the times man. If something similar happened today, most people wouldn't be panicking due to aliens, even with the internet and other stations and such, people would think it's a terrorist attack or something.

As for news items like this... it's old news to anyone who actually reads NASA releases before they get picked up by mainstream news.
The information is there for you to read on their site, but instead people wait until the MM put it up and suddenly it's a freaking conspiracy.

[conspiracyparanormal]

sean6, on 12 April 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

this is big, well kind of.

Viking robots found life on Mars in 1976, scientists say



New analysis of 36-year-old data, resuscitated from printouts, shows NASA found life on Mars, an international team of mathematicians and scientists conclude in a paper published this week.

Further, NASA doesn't need a human expedition to Mars to nail down the claim, neuropharmacologist and biologist Joseph Miller, with the University of Southern California Keck School of Medicine, told Discovery News.


http://www.msnbc.msn...cience-science/



just want to ask a question, do you think nasa lies about life in the universe.???

I think it is highly likely that NASA did find evidence of life on Mars, but covered it up. NASA is a federal government organization, and as such it inherently does not have the best interest of the common citizen at heart. As a federal agency, it is also under the thumb of legislation and regulation that would easily control and censor the flow of information to the public. Why do you think there have been no private or commercial ventures doing interplanetary exploration? It's not because there is any lack of ideas, passion, and funding among private citizens. It's because the federal government either directly or indirectly stifles such operations before they leave the drawing board. How do you keep genius citizens from uncovering hidden mysteries of the universe? Crash the economy and distract them with crises so they cannot realize their dreams. Trust me, the federal government in general does not want citizens becoming too independent or empowered. Today's administration is the exact opposite of what our founding fathers intended when they implemented the U.S. constitution.

[OverSword]

and then there is stuff like this
My link
disclosure?

[Slave2Fate]

conspiracyparanormal, on 13 April 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

Why do you think there have been no private or commercial ventures doing interplanetary exploration? It's not because there is any lack of ideas, passion, and funding among private citizens. It's because the federal government either directly or indirectly stifles such operations before they leave the drawing board.

Have you been hiding under a rock in the last few years? Commercial space ventures are the new 'space race'. Never heard of Virgin Galactic, XCOR Aerospace, Armadillo Aerospace or Project Enterprise (to name a few)? Your mistrust and paranoia is misplaced in my opinion.

[ShadowSot]

OverSword, on 13 April 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

and then there is stuff like this
My link
disclosure?

Another hill catching the light and casting a shadow. Big whoop.

[OverSword]

ShadowSot, on 13 April 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Another hill catching the light and casting a shadow. Big whoop.

Amazing how we don't have any monolith shaped hills on our planet.  But fine, you see one thing and Buzz see's another.  It's not like he's more educated or qualified than you or I to make a judgement about this right?

[Archimedes]

OverSword, on 13 April 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

and then there is stuff like this
My link
disclosure?

Or another vaguely regularly shaped rock on Mars being touted as artificial.  I've yet to see a proposed artificial structure on Mars that if higher quality imagery was available that didn't become immediately less impressive and more natural looking.

Do we have co-ordinates as to the location of this on Mars?  I'd like to have a look at it.

[OverSword]

I don't know, I just saw this and it inspired me to cross post.  There is an interesting site called martian anomolies or mars anomolies.  85% of the mars stuff on that sight seems to be the guy seeing stuff because he's looking for something but the other 15% is pretty cool.