40 replies to this topic

[The Chez]

Oh heavens,2012 is a well debunked HOAX. Infact I sadly wouldn't have joined this forum if I was aware at the time there was a section giving this this utter poo poo (being as I probably can't swear here) credability in the slightest. I'm not going to even bother sharing my basic knowledge of astronomy, solar physics & other sciences, because it will probably fall on deaf ears.

Kids and young people, AND adults alike are getting suicidal over this, some of them have actually tried and/or succeeded in committing suicide because of this hoax.

There NO rise in 'freak storms' or 'oddities', these are things which have always happened, earthquakes have always happened, tornados have always happened,tsunamis have always happened, solar flairs...you guessed it, have always happened. There is nothing special about 2012, and anyone saying there is is most probably seeking MONEY. There are no 2012 proponent sites on the web that don't have a 'book'or a 'dvd' for sale, usually touting how to survive the apocalypse blah blah. It was the same in 2000 with the Y2K scare, what happened, nothing, no nuclear meltdowns, no computers on the rampage, nothing. Fear sells books,DVDs, and most amusing of all, camping supplies! Don't fall for it, don't be lead into the hoax by woo artists chasing your cash.

Don't even think about using youtube or many other video sites as a reliable source of FACT on this topic, we can all cut and paste and use basic photo manipulation programs to stick rogue planets in the sky, mock up a weird cloud formation or a dragon fluttering in the clouds. There is NO scientific fact behind ANY of the 2012 doom theories.

Don't even get me started on the Mayan 'prediction' stuff. To cut it very short, the Mayans were a civilisation that belived in human sacrifice, drinking blood and worshipping gods that looked like crocodiles stuck on top of bears. They were good astronomers yes, but they did not have the tech we do to reach beyond the night sky and view deep space, and be able to predict asteroid flybys, study solar activity or anything even close to that. The long count calandar round, which is at the very heart of the 2012 hoax, is a very primative calandar that had little purpose outside planning ahead for planting crops, religious celebrations, crownings, gods ascending etc.

Aliens have not visited our ancient ancestors either, humanity evolved from apes, to claim otherwise would mean Darwin was wrong, and that hundreds of yearsof research may as well be flushed, it ain't gonna happen and I ain't gonna buy it.

There is a scientific reason, or perhaps even a paranormal reason such as clairaudinance for some people hearing sounds, tintinus, a medical condition which causes ringing in the ears is another example, is a possible cause. It can come on after attending loud rock concerts even, and take people by a nasty surprise, you may not even know you have it.

I believe in spirits, they've been with us for all time, ghosts yes, aliens yes within reason, and most other paranormal stuff, but I draw the line with the 2012 hoax because it is costing people money when they get caught in the scams which say if you donate another £100 you'll get 'vital survival information' or access to a secret bunker and that yadda, and sadly, people are committing suicide.

When the stupid date comes, and goes, and we enter 2013 without so much as a bug belching, perhaps the woo artists will decide it's time to check in with that psychiatrist after all!

[and then]

Welcome to UM the chez

You'll find that you're preaching to the choir here.  And by all means if you have knowledge of the sciences, whip it out, there are many here who will compare their's with your's
UM has many well reasoned, topical threads to take part in but we also have nearly a thousand pages on:  DID WE REALLY LAND ON THE MOON     So as the man said - you pays your money, you takes your chances...

[Conrad Clough]

You mean that you didn't do any sort of research on the forum or even look around it well before you joined and now you are upset because there is a section that you don't like? Nobody is forcing you to read or join in on commenting on threads that are about 2012 and what (if anything) might happen. If you are so sick of discourse on the subject why create this thread and bring it up?

Edited by Conrad Clough, 12 April 2012 - 10:04 PM.

[The Chez]

and then, on 12 April 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

Welcome to UM the chez

You'll find that you're preaching to the choir here.  And by all means if you have knowledge of the sciences, whip it out, there are many here who will compare their's with your's
UM has many well reasoned, topical threads to take part in but we also have nearly a thousand pages on:  DID WE REALLY LAND ON THE MOON     So as the man said - you pays your money, you takes your chances...

haha good reply, that moon landing stuff does nut as well. Of course we walked on the moon! Reasons we've not been back? well what's the point? It's a dusty rock in the airless void of space, not a lot worth going back FOR and spending billions of pounds/dollars on methinks. We've already proven you can grow plants in moondust if you add air & water, but what else can you do apart from inhabit the moon? This would bother me because we could cause instability & do damage which would have an impact on Earth. Apart from that there is NOTHING special about the moon, ON the moon, the importance of the moon is only important to Earth, where it's effects are needed, e.g the gravatational force which corrects the oceans, and causes the important tidal fluctuations and currents. The moon basically holds the oceans where they are, without it the water would be like a blindman in a maze, lost and flopping everywhere.

I tend to steer clear of conspiracies that really go beyond reason, such as 'reptilians' being in control, the illimunati master plot to take over the world, when most governments can't even master their own economy, nevermind world domination!, masonic stones etc. That makes me laugh too, that Georgia Guidestones thing, just some rocks bunged in the ground, probably funded by a mason, and the ideas of a mason, but they're just one man's ideas and thoughts. I bet he stuck it there just to imspire, to make people think and to encourage people to talk, ponder over theories as to who put them there and what they mean, when they don't mean a thing past the ideas and thoughts of one man or perhaps two, who were good storytellers.

I could stick a stone in the ground in my town tomorrow saying something like 'the cows know what we are thinking' or something silly like that, and watch as people gathered and started pondering what it meant. The creator of those stones probably frequently googles the storm he has created and has a silent chuckle to himself.

[The Chez]

Conrad Clough, on 12 April 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

You mean that you didn't do any sort of research on the forum or even look around it well before you joined and now you are upset because there is a section that you don't like? Nobody is forcing you to read or join in on commenting on threads that are about 2012 and what (if anything) might happen. If you are so sick of discourse on the subject why create this thread and bring it up?

Because I had to say my piece on a cruel money scam hoax which is causing kids, teenagers and adults to contemplate taking their own lives, it doesn't belong on any respected site. I've said my piece now, that's the last you'll see of me in this section.

[opsis]

It's only a hoax if it doesn't happen.

[The Chez]

opsis, on 12 April 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

It's only a hoax if it doesn't happen.

Did Y2K happen? No, but the IT industry we all know today was forged on the PROFITS churned over in just a couple of years as people scurried to make sure their home and business systems were 'Y2K safe' or whatever. It made the industry billions, and caused a boom in the IT industry. Some people are getting filthy rich of other people's fear, making millions per crackpot. After this hoax can't be ridden anymore, because their chosen year is over, they will swiftly move to another year/date/time to start making frightened people pay out again. I hear from some internet sites they already have the next year lined up, 2014, and this time it's to do with the AZTEC callendar round *sigh* this is the cycle of doom dating, they always 'get it wrong' and claim the next cooked up one is the 'right one' and how 'sorry' they are for their terrible mistake (Harold Camping is a great example, with his famous rapture) all his dates passed with no flying naked people  

There is one or two doomsday hoaxes every year. If you quote the Bible as being a part of it, you must remember the bit where Jesus says 'only the father knows the day and the hour'. The 'doom dating' trash has been going on for years with one crackpot or the other claiming to have predicted the apocalypse. Now it's not funny anymore, not when people are killing themselves over it. That will be the disaster, lives needlessly cut short because of an internet hoax. Without the internet, would you know what '2012' was all about? No, it would just be another year on your callendar! Does the world end when the callendar on your kitchen wall ends? no, it just rolls over onto the next one you have to buy from the bargain shop and life carries on as normal.

[Conrad Clough]

The Chez, on 12 April 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

Because I had to say my piece on a cruel money scam hoax which is causing kids, teenagers and adults to contemplate taking their own lives....

I find that an incredibly naive position, people commit suicide all the time, and those who are suicidal seldom need anything like a rumor of the world ending to drive them too it... in fact it could be that 2012 related suicides are a hoax, I have seen no appreciable rise in the number of suicides reported upon (much like your "There NO rise in 'freak storms' or 'oddities' paragraph used in argument against the '2012 hoax') nor have a read one single news story that reported upon a suicide saying that the person left a note blaming the 2012 'event' for taking his or her own life.

Anytime there is an end of the world prediction there will be people coming out for he woodwork to cash in on it from gullible people, that doesn't mean that the original prediction was made in malice or by somebody trying to fool everybody (ie a hoax).

The Mayan Calendar runs out on the (northern hemisphere) winter solstice this year, that much is fact... and all the predictions spring from that fact. Did the Mayan's know something that we didn't know? I am not so ready to dismiss their culture because they practiced human sacrifice and worshiped crocodile bear gods as you... that doesn't mean I think that the world will end, or anything very exciting is even going to happen (although Dec 21 is my wife's birthday so it should be fun at least), most of what people say about 2012 is way beyond the realms of what the Maya would or could have predicted if they had predicted anything, and a lot of the information out there is simply erroneous.

Edited by Conrad Clough, 12 April 2012 - 10:37 PM.

[ozman]

WELL YOU BETTER GET READY TO GET MORE SICK OF IT!

Because as December 21st gets closer and closer more and more people get excited and curious and news media will start coveraging it and even online websites and online news sites will also cover it!


I'm gonna go on top of a mountain approximately midnight december 21st to see exactly what changes!

Just kidding!!!

[The Chez]

Conrad Clough, on 12 April 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

I find that an incredibly naive position, people commit suicide all the time, and those who are suicidal seldom need anything like a rumor of the world ending to drive them too it... in fact it could be that 2012 related suicides are a hoax, I have seen no appreciable rise in the number of suicides reported upon (much like your "There NO rise in 'freak storms' or 'oddities' paragraph used in argument against the '2012 hoax') nor have a read one single news story that reported upon a suicide saying that the person left a note blaming the 2012 'event' for taking his or her own life.

Anytime there is an end of the world prediction there will be people coming out for he woodwork to cash in on it from gullible people, that doesn't mean that the original prediction was made in malice or by somebody trying to fool everybody (ie a hoax).

The Mayan Calendar runs out on the (northern hemisphere) winter solstice this year, that much is fact... and all the predictions spring from that fact. Did the Mayan's know something that we didn't know? I am not so ready to dismiss their culture because they practiced human sacrifice and worshiped crocodile bear gods as you... that doesn't mean I think that the world will end, or anything very exciting is even going to happen (although Dec 21 is my wife's birthday so it should be fun at least), most of what people say about 2012 is way beyond the realms of what the Maya would or could have predicted if they had predicted anything, and a lot of the information out there is simply erroneous.

You're wrong in saying the calendar 'ends'. It doesn't. The long count is broken up into parts called 'bakatuns', which are long time periods. It's just another way of telling the time, one that we are no longer familier with. The Mayan culture which created the calendar is no longer active apart from small groups of people who follow the maya religion, these groups discredit the fact the Mayans had anything to do with this story, there is no prediction or prophecy. The Mayans made no future predictions past one or two gods ascending to the throne, one of these is in the year 2060 or something like that, not related to or anywhere close to 2012. We measure time using the gregorian dating method, the mayans used the long count, which was part of a very complecated calendar system. They had many other calendars which tracked seasons, planting seasons, the sun etc, things which were essential for LIFE, for maintaining food supplies, that's about it. For a people that depended on the crop, planning when to plant it was extremely important, and the long count helped with this. A few scholors say the long count is merely a planting calendar, revolving around the sacred crop, corn, and was planned out on the basis the Mayans had enough seed for a few thousand more years, which was probably an oversight, but it's what they believed. The long count told them when to plant it, and a few other events relating to their culture. Nowhere is the year 2012 mentioned by the Maya par in about two non interesting texts. If it was such a big deal, they would have made it so, and talked a lot more about it, and probably idolised it in their religious beliefs.

So to say the Maya predicted anything is erronous, they didn't. It just happens that bakatun 13 ends around this time (no specific date has been worked out for this other than the yadderings of the doom mongers), and bakatun 14 starts, just there are no Maya here anymore to make another round.

As for the suicides, I am a member of an active forum (won't say where because I don't want it inundated with proponents trying to discredit people there, many of whom as scientists, astronomers and other bright folk) and we deal with people, mainly of school age, who are asking us why they should carry on living if the world will end in 2012, and describing how they wish to end their lives. So it is a real problem, effecting real people. Many of the youngsters we talk to are having to take medication and go through therapy because of this, and it really makes me sick.

If it wasn't for the internet, who would know about this drivel? Nobody, as I said.

I'm still waiting for someone to claim aliens visited the Maya, then I can truly bow out of this part of the forum  

Edited by The Chez, 12 April 2012 - 11:03 PM.

[The Chez]

ozman, on 12 April 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

WELL YOU BETTER GET READY TO GET MORE SICK OF IT!

Because as December 21st gets closer and closer more and more people get excited and curious and news media will start coveraging it and even online websites and online news sites will also cover it!


I'm gonna go on top of a mountain approximately midnight december 21st to see exactly what changes!

Just kidding!!!

To be honest, I think most people have come to their senses now, and the peak of it is probably about here. Of course, there will be breakaway groups hiding in the mountains waiting for the UFOs to arrive, but everyday folk like me will just carry on and will probably forget the date alltogehter until we realise it's 2013  

[Simbi Laveau]

What I really want to know is..........
On Dec 22nd 2012,are they going to change the name of this forum.
I think we should demand it.
*runs away giggling*

[JGirl]

i'm sick of the nonsense too but getting mad isn't going to change it.
as for committing suicide because the world is supposed to come to an end, well that's just stupid. killing yourself because you're going to die? why not just wait and die when the big one comes? at least you get a few more months to experience your life.

true story:
i'm actually more sick of all the vampire crap going around, but hey that's just me.

[willowdreams]

JGirl, on 14 April 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

i'm sick of the nonsense too but getting mad isn't going to change it.
as for committing suicide because the world is supposed to come to an end, well that's just stupid. killing yourself because you're going to die? why not just wait and die when the big one comes? at least you get a few more months to experience your life.

true story:
i'm actually more sick of all the vampire crap going around, but hey that's just me.

i am more sick of the clothing fad of wearing your pants half way down your butt *grins*

as for the stupidity of the 12/21/12 stuff.. i say let em spout off! Its like my grandma said when i asked her why grandaddy and the other old men would drink and talk about how the world would be better if only.. and then they would of course over a few cases of beer.. or mooonshine. or home brew.. solve all the worlds problems.. she was like, they are just drunk idiots, but as long as they stay in one place drinking and talking, they wont be adding to the worlds problems! (course sometimes they stayed in place and still caused problems.. like the time my step father got drunk with them and decided it was time to tell the president (carter at the time) just what he needed to settle all the worlds problems within 24 hours.. and he tried to call the white house and get through to the president.. i thought it was funny.. my grandmother took a broom to him.. so i guess maybe she didnt see it as funny. (hey.. i admit it.. i was raised in the mountains of west virginia.. in a family of rednecks.. to make it worse.. we were wealthy rednecks..so that means the men felt that they actually did have power!)

i see it the same here, as long as these people want to spend their money and waste their time on the 'worlds end' on dec 21, let em.. keeps them busy so that the rest of us can keep on moving forward!

oh but.. everyone else needs to pause.. and take time to pull some britches up to cover those under shorts

[Kryso]

People will only be able to say, "What a waste of time," after Dec 21st. Until then we have to put up with it all Then again, we may not be around to say, "I told you so," lol.