77 replies to this topic

[preacherman76]

In fairness though, I think if I had filmed the UFO I saw that night, I might not be willing to show it to the world. No doubt people would say all kinds of terrible things about me and how I faked it. There are SOME good clips of UFO's out there. Question is, if you saw a good legit video, would you believe it? Most wouldnt.

[Chrlzs]

preacherman76, on 14 April 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

In fairness though, I think if I had filmed the UFO I saw that night, I might not be willing to show it to the world. No doubt people would say all kinds of terrible things about me and how I faked it.

Assuming that you mean that the ufo was 'special' (ie alien-like).. IF you kept the original footage (and made copies available), and IF the story was coherent, logical and well-documented, and IF the object captured was indeed unexplainable by terrestrial tech... then why would it matter if some people said terrible things?  Others would be on your side, and if the above applied, there would be more of them than the doubters.

I'm sure that there are many people here on UM who would LOVE to see genuine, well-documented footage that was something other than a thing looking a lot like an aircraft or a bokeh-blob..  And surely (if the claim is that it was something 'beyond' just being a ufo, ie of alien origin) then it is fair to ask - where is the evidence that it is undeniably alien?  If it is just more lights-in-the-sky stuff, seriously, why should we care?

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There are SOME good clips of UFO's out there.

Which one is the best of those?  Are you just talking about UFOs as per definition, or are you referring to evidence of ET?

Quote

Question is, if you saw a good legit video, would you believe it? Most wouldnt.

I think you are underestimating (even insulting) the denizens of UM.  If it had a matching legit story and provenance, and fulfilled the requirements above, I'd certainly believe it.  But are you now talking about ufo's, or alien visits?  Nobody here, as far as I am aware, debates whether there are lots of ufo sightings.  It is natural because of our ever-crowded sky.

[preacherman76]

I dont believe in aliens.

[Legaia]

preacherman76, on 14 April 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

I dont believe in aliens.

Well that's good because you don't have to believe in 'aliens' to participate in good old fashioned UFO discussions!

Is your stance on aliens stretch to any type of alien life form? The word "belief" is very vague and doesn't really work here as it would with, say, a religion.

I ask out of pure curiosity, by the way. I'm not trying to be rude.

Edited by Legaia, 14 April 2012 - 02:28 PM.

[preacherman76]

Legaia, on 14 April 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

Well that's good because you don't have to believe in 'aliens' to participate in good old fashioned UFO discussions!

No doubt. I love the topic. If I had not seen what I saw, Id probably think folks who say they saw similar things to the one Ive seen were crazy.  NTM I know alot of folks including my mother, that saw the now famous hudson valley boomerang. UFO's are a reality I in no way could denie.

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Is your stance on aliens stretch to any type of alien life form? The word "belief" is very vague and doesn't really work here as it would with, say, a religion.

I ask out of pure curiosity, by the way. I'm not trying to be rude.

Im talking about the little gray big black eye'd aliens. I just havent seen anything that would make me believe they exist. I dont know who made or flew the UFO I saw, but I tend to believe they are made right here on earth. The most advanced plane we have, known to the public, is 40 years old. Top secret for 20 years, and in the publics eye for 20 years (at least). I think we have achieved far more advanced tech over that time.

As far as any life out in the great wide open that we call space, I really just dont know. I lean twards no, mostly cause I dont believe life can create its self under any condition without a designer, or creator. But thats a whole other subject.

[psyche101]

itsnotoutthere, on 13 April 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

The lack of any credible evidence & proliferation of third rate & fake ufo vids on youtube would tend to suggest something rather obvious wouldn't it?

Occams razor tends to point at us being the incorrect parameter in this equation. The replies have been very good (mostly) however, I predict the OP will place up another Skylab or Ice particle clip from Youtube in the near future, and call everyone who is not dazzled by it closed minded and so forth. I disagree with the OP's description of Stanton Friedman's method, and mentioning math as part of it. As far as I know Mr Friedman's prime method if investigation is eyewitness recollection (English) as opposed to someone like Bruce Macabee who does indeed tend to attempt to resolve his inconsistencies largely with math. IN fat the argument he won with Phill Klass pertained to a typeset.  But then again earlier we also saw names like McDonald who are largely to blame for the ET misconceptions and the notoriety they receive today. It seems rather blatant that after 60 years if we are still scratching our heads that these fellows may well have been on their own garden path so to speak, but that does not hinder their legacy of tales of wonderment to explain anomalies in the skies.

[DONTEATUS]

Theres many names that would be great to include to this thread.   a few astronauts,Aircraft designers ,Lots of Military peep`s ! I`ll be scratching my head until the Cows get Tipped !
Cheer`s from Texas !

[Timonthy]

1963, on 13 April 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

UFO Frustration Rant.
Hi all!

Am I alone in being at the point of giving up the search for video-validation of the ETH?...'if I click on another link that proclaims .. "Real UFO Caught On Film", and it turns out to be some innocuous fuzzy lights filmed from zillions of miles away, that could just as easily be a balloon, aeroplane or intentional hoax' ..
I mean...how many of these high altitude 'Orbs' can we view without yawning?..and how many distant 'Flashing Lights' are likely to be anything less prosaic than aeroplane lights?
And don't get me started on the recent advent of the dreaded'Chinese Lanterns'!!
...And I could rant for days about these awful 'Captured-Alien..dead or alive' vid's!
And there are only 'very few' out of the myriad Alien-Abduction claims that are worthy of consideration!

This is just a handful of examples of the irksome side of amateur-ufology...there are many more of these diseases that infest the field !.. With the biggest of these 'Cancers' being the dishonest people that for various reasons intend to deceive the innocent students of this very real world-wide phenomena!.. Hoaxers,Liars, Snake-oil-salesmen,Charlatans or whatever you prefer to call them, and for whatever reason they practise their art...Money,Fame,Egotism etc..They are the ones that are eating away at the legitimacy of this field of study and trivialising the honest endeavours of the truly studious figures, past and present that have devoted their lives to shedding light on this enigma in a solemn and honourable manner!...People such as MacDonald,Hynek,Haines,Maccabbee,Friedman, Vallee,etc!

And then there's the credulous factor!..the supporters of the likes of Meier,Dean,Adamski,Vesco,Von Daniken etc , that takes the subject down to well below the level of a snakes testicles, for which the mere mentioning of their names should bring with it a life-time ban from serious UFO/ET forums for the transgressors!

OK!...Rant over!..it's bedtime, goodnight all.

Cheers.

You think that's bad!? I've been waiting for Dr. Dre to release 'Detox' since 2001...  

But in all seriousness, with regards to the above album also, it gets to a point where you have to realise you might never get what you want.

It's better to take a sideline approach with these things, observe, be hopeful, but be aware that until the fact (UFO disclosure/the release of a long awaited album - which both most probably will not happen in our life times) you should take everything with a grain of salt.

Tim.

[linttrap]

In Science, the absence of evidence is NOT equivalent to evidence of absence.

It simply equates to Unknown. That is as far as my mind is willing to go. Beyond that, is an emotional reaction of disappointment, contempt, ego-satisfaction, and other such unobjective responses.

UFOs have not been disproven, which leaves them in the unidentified category. Show me evidence that the government is responsible for all of the sightings, that birds and swamp gas and whatever are definitely responsible for all sightings, and I will accept it.

But there remain too many that have not been explained by something else. Those cases tend to be ones that are not the result of current means of trickery. They have to be accounted for.

As long as there are unknowns, no one can state definitively that UFOs are not unidentified flying objects. By definition. Beyond that is speculation.

[morrowcosom]

I, along with several other people I know have seen very strange lights/shapes in the sky, some performing atypically acrobatic feats of maneuvering and speed.

Not one of us jumps to the conclusion that aliens are flying these objects. The term UFO does not necessitate alien occupants.

IMO, a UFO is more likely an unconventional human-flown craft or something weird going on in the atmosphere.


As far as my UFO's on video perspective:
If aliens are taken out of the UFO equation, why is it so hard to believe that many UFO videos are legitimate? Instead of thinking "that's a weird object in the sky", many people think "there is no such thing as aliens. This is fake"!

To the OP: you can rest assured that many weird objects are in the sky.

Edited by morrowcosom, 16 April 2012 - 02:58 AM.

[Philt]

It is getting harder and harder with CGI etc to filter out the real from the not so real.

I'm afraid ET will have to walk up to me and kick me in balls before I even take any notice.

[DONTEATUS]

Philt, on 16 April 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

It is getting harder and harder with CGI etc to filter out the real from the not so real.

I'm afraid ET will have to walk up to me and kick me in balls before I even take any notice.

Now thats an E.T-Ouch ! BUt just try to esplane that to anyone Lucy !

[Chrlzs]

psyche101, on 16 April 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

Occams razor tends to point at us being the incorrect parameter in this equation. The replies have been very good (mostly) however, I predict the OP will place up another Skylab or Ice particle clip from Youtube in the near future, and call everyone who is not dazzled by it closed minded and so forth. I disagree with the OP's description of Stanton Friedman's method, and mentioning math as part of it. As far as I know Mr Friedman's prime method if investigation is eyewitness recollection (English) as opposed to someone like Bruce Macabee who does indeed tend to attempt to resolve his inconsistencies largely with math. IN fat the argument he won with Phill Klass pertained to a typeset.  But then again earlier we also saw names like McDonald who are largely to blame for the ET misconceptions and the notoriety they receive today. It seems rather blatant that after 60 years if we are still scratching our heads that these fellows may well have been on their own garden path so to speak, but that does not hinder their legacy of tales of wonderment to explain anomalies in the skies.

Agreed.

Except..     I have big problems with much of Maccabee's work..  I have seen WAY too many examples of lengthy mathematical dissertations based on nothing but his say so - no previous cites or proofs, or any attempt by him to test his claims or enough details of his methodology to allow others to test it..  Some day I'd like to pick a best-of Maccabee investigation or two and poke some holes in them, in thorough and step-by-step fashion.  

Trouble is.. that's on my bucket list, and the bucket is rather full of other stuff..  A topic for another thread, anyways..

[JohnnyRico]

1963: I understand your frustration and am here to offer enlightenment.

Just buy my book "There's a sucker born every..." I mean "The Real Scoop on UFOs" on Amazon.  It includes a DVD featuring real UFO footage.  

[DONTEATUS]

JohnnyRico, on 16 April 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

1963: I understand your frustration and am here to offer enlightenment.

Just buy my book "There's a sucker born every..." I mean "The Real Scoop on UFOs" on Amazon.  It includes a DVD featuring real UFO footage.  

Thats too funny ! I`ll buy your book if you let me have it a few weeks to just look at the photos . Rants about everything are a great place to start a New thread.
Now was that book of the imagination or was it a CGI book,or a swamp creature evolved book ?
Anywho ! Welcome to the forum "Johnny R "