106 replies to this topic

[and then]

Kryso, on 14 April 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Back in the time when the Bible was penned, most people hadn't even traveled miles from where they were born, more or less heard of other continents. Or are you referring to no prophecies about America in general? A few places were mentioned using their actual name, but mostly, I'm lead to believe things are very ambiguous, hence why there's so many different interpretations and religions today. It would be much easier if it wasn't so critic and just said everything in layman's terms. But imagine how boring the world would be without so many conflicting religions and everyone was happy

Most of scripture that is considered by scholars to be pointing to future events concerning modern countries is written describing the people groups of the time and the land they possessed.  So Ammon, for example were the people who lived in the area now known as Jordan.  The Scythians of the Russian steppe were called Gog.  The writers would have used examples of peoples within their experience I imagine.  But John of Patmos wrote exclusively of nations that he knew nothing of in the book of Revelation.  Daniel wrote of 4 world dynasties and used animals as symbols for them.  But the greatest military power in history seems not to be mentioned at all.  I just find it to be a curious omission.

[and then]

Gromdor, on 14 April 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

Well, If revelations were true and were to happen today, I would say by the descriptions of Rev 18:1-18:24 that the Babylon that they talk about burning in the bible is actually the US.  Rev 18:11 mentions merchants gnashing their teeth because there was noone to buy ther goods anymore.  The US contains 5% of the worlds population but uses 25% of the energy, 50% of the worlds diamonds, 60% of the worlds drugs. I could google more stats but I think you get the idea.

I've often wondered about that reference but scholars seem to agree that it is referencing a revived Holy Roman Empire in the last days.

[ealdwita]

The existance of the American land-mass may be extrapolated from the story of the Flood. The enormous number of animals being housed on the Ark would have resulted in the production of many tons of the type of waste product so familiar to farmers and stable-owners. I suggest that the Noah family shovelled it all overboard where it lay until Columbus stumbled across it!

[Mr Right Wing]

and then, on 14 April 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

I realize there are many theories as to America's place in end time events.  Of those possibilities the closest fit seems to me to be a reference in Ezekiel 38 about Gog being burned with fire as well as "those that dwell carelessly in the Isles"  But there is never a real mention of America in the Bible.  For those who take the bible as the inspired word of God and a message from Him to us, I've often wondered how the most powerful nation on earth,EVER in history, could be completely ignored as though it never existed.

Does the Bible recognise Britain?

If it does as I believe it does then why should it recognise America as another nation? The Bible is not concerned with present day politics where those Brits have rebelled and formed their own country.

Maybe their rebellion doesnt last. Maybe when China and India take off us Brits settle our differences and reunite. You dont know what awaits for us.

[and then]

libstaK, on 14 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

Mandarin (Chinese) and Spanish are very close rivals to English as the most spoken languages in the world.  We see the world through our own database of experience - but we are not really seeing the world at all, we are just seeing our own little corner of it and assuming everything that matters revolves around what we understand or have been taught to be true by the media/govt etc.

It's all a form of propaganda, what a Chinese or Spanish soul sees of the world may not show America or the English speaking world as much of an influence or power at all depending on their lifestyle - to 90% of the planet America could easily be seen as quite irrelevant one way or the other, it's possible and worth considering how skewed our perpective of the western world's importance in world's events could be,- just a thought experiment I'm throwing into the mix to mull over .

I'm familiar with the ideas you speak of.  When I was in China our guide constantly referred to China as the "middle" kingdom.  I thought she was speaking of the dynasties within it's history and she said no...China is the center of the world.
I could run down a list of the things that I feel make the US the most exceptional country in history but that really isn't the point of the thread.  If others want to lay claim so be it.  Not a problem.  I think that any one who is being rational would at least have to admit that if the Palestinians are referred to, or the Saudi Arabians or Lebanon then America would probably merit a mention since we wield power unmatched by anyone else in the world today.  Yet America is NOT mentioned clearly.  I lean towards the idea that America doesn't rate a mention because the Bible is Israel centric.  And because when the final calamities begin, the US might have been destroyed.

[and then]

Mr Right Wing, on 14 April 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

Does the Bible recognise Britain?

If it does as I believe it does then why should it recognise America as another nation? The Bible is not concerned with present day politics where those Brits have rebelled and formed their own country.

Maybe their rebellion doesnt last. Maybe when China and India take off us Brits settle our differences and reunite. You dont know what awaits for us.

Ezekiel 38 mentions Tarshish and some scholars think this is a reference to GB.  As far as the Bible being unconcerned with the modern state of nations I feel that it is intimately concerned with them.  Christ told His disciples that He was telling them in advance what would happen to Jerusalem so that when they saw it happen they would believe.  prophecy is sort of the last warning before judgement.  And apparently most people in the world have become too intelligent to be fooled by such nonsense

[Meiliken]

libstaK, on 14 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

Mandarin (Chinese) and Spanish are very close rivals to English as the most spoken languages in the world.  We see the world through our own database of experience - but we are not really seeing the world at all, we are just seeing our own little corner of it and assuming everything that matters revolves around what we understand or have been taught to be true by the media/govt etc.

It's all a form of propaganda, what a Chinese or Spanish soul sees of the world may not show America or the English speaking world as much of an influence or power at all depending on their lifestyle - to 90% of the planet America could easily be seen as quite irrelevant one way or the other, it's possible and worth considering how skewed our perpective of the western world's importance in world's events could be,- just a thought experiment I'm throwing into the mix to mull over .

True enough.  Heck, even people on one side the the U.S. doesn't even know what's going on, on the other side.  I talked to this one rich person who actually thought the rest of the U.S. lived like she did.  She didn't even realize that there are people with no money.  Not to mention the U.S. is a fat country.  The majority of its population are overweight.  Personally, I wish I'd been born Japanese.  Least they still care about family.  And Health.  And morality.  Need I go on?

[wittyusernamefailed]

Well And-Then, if you read the whole endtimes timeline it sorta starts out with 2 KT event sized asteroids wtfpwning the world, if those hit anywhere near Europe or Asia the total destruction would sorta put a crimp on the prophecy's regarding that area of the world, so the only logical place would put ground zero at around the American landmass. Hence there would not need to be any mention about a no longer existing area of the world.

There was a movement to place america as one of the 10 Kingdoms that go all Rambo and attack "Babylon" in an hour. But that's really really stretching it, not to mention sounds like an idea you'd get after putting Michael Bay in a room with Revelations and a bucket of cocaine for a few hours.

[Eldorado]

Maybe, just maybe...

Countries and divisions are insignificant to God.

It's people who are important.  All people.

[Mr Right Wing]

Eldorado, on 14 April 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

Maybe, just maybe...

Countries and divisions are insignificant to God.

It's people who are important.  All people.

God created the nations and divisions as the Bible tells you.

God is not a liberal-socialist.

[libstaK]

Meiliken, on 14 April 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

True enough.  Heck, even people on one side the the U.S. doesn't even know what's going on, on the other side.  I talked to this one rich person who actually thought the rest of the U.S. lived like she did.  She didn't even realize that there are people with no money.  Not to mention the U.S. is a fat country.  The majority of its population are overweight.  Personally, I wish I'd been born Japanese.  Least they still care about family.  And Health.  And morality.  Need I go on?

There are alot of cultures that have very enviable family values - I heartily agree, western materialist cultures have lost a fundamental piece of understanding on how to care for loved ones in their race for the almighty dollar and the trappings it can provide.

Edited by libstaK, 14 April 2012 - 11:49 AM.

[Mr Right Wing]

and then, on 14 April 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

Ezekiel 38 mentions Tarshish and some scholars think this is a reference to GB.  As far as the Bible being unconcerned with the modern state of nations I feel that it is intimately concerned with them.  Christ told His disciples that He was telling them in advance what would happen to Jerusalem so that when they saw it happen they would believe.  prophecy is sort of the last warning before judgement.  And apparently most people in the world have become too intelligent to be fooled by such nonsense

Two points
1. Tarshish is a reference to the jungles of India
2. The Bible makes no predications for most nations on this planet.

[Karlis]

and then, on 14 April 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

I realize there are many theories as to America's place in end time events.  Of those possibilities the closest fit seems to me to be a reference in Ezekiel 38 about Gog being burned with fire as well as "those that dwell carelessly in the Isles"  But there is never a real mention of America in the Bible.  For those who take the bible as the inspired word of God and a message from Him to us, I've often wondered how the most powerful nation on earth,EVER in history, could be completely ignored as though it never existed.

Have you considered the following? There are hundreds of books on this topic.

British Israelism (also called Anglo-Israelism) is the belief that people of Western European descent, particularly those in Great Britain, are the direct lineal descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. The concept often includes the belief that the British Royal Family is directly descended from the line of King David.^[1][2]  There has never been a single head or organisational structure to the  movement. However, various British Israelite organisations were set up  across the British Commonwealth and in America from the 1870s, and many continue to exist.^[3]  Adherents may hold a diverse set of beliefs and claims that are  ancillary to the core genealogical theory, but there are central tenets  that all British Israelites follow, including Two House Theology, which is at the core of British Israelism.^[4]  A central teaching of the British Israelites' Two House Theology is  that, while Jews are considered to be Israelites, not all Israelites are  considered to be Jews.^[5] British Israelites believe that Jews descend only from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin), while the House of Israel gave rise to the British people or Anglo-Saxon-Celtic kindred peoples of northwestern Europe.
Source

[and then]

Eldorado, on 14 April 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

Maybe, just maybe...

Countries and divisions are insignificant to God.

It's people who are important.  All people.

It's a nice sentiment El, and one I agree with but the book doesn't read that way.  And if God wrote it through inspiration then I have to believe there's good reason for it to play the way it does.  It's enough for me that i'm not asked to do evil to my fellow man.

[libstaK]

and then, on 14 April 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I'm familiar with the ideas you speak of.  When I was in China our guide constantly referred to China as the "middle" kingdom.  I thought she was speaking of the dynasties within it's history and she said no...China is the center of the world.
I could run down a list of the things that I feel make the US the most exceptional country in history but that really isn't the point of the thread.  If others want to lay claim so be it.  Not a problem.  I think that any one who is being rational would at least have to admit that if the Palestinians are referred to, or the Saudi Arabians or Lebanon then America would probably merit a mention since we wield power unmatched by anyone else in the world today.  Yet America is NOT mentioned clearly.  I lean towards the idea that America doesn't rate a mention because the Bible is Israel centric.  And because when the final calamities begin, the US might have been destroyed.

I don't think "America" needs a special mention - my understanding of the battles of the end times is about opposing ideals - love of the world and it's things V love of God and sacrifice for fellow man before personal gain but then I rarely step into those realms of biblical lore, the symbolism is prone to personal perception and each person's will be different.