14 replies to this topic

[the-Unexpected-Soul]

do you think that most of the world problems will stop if America stopped supporting Israel

[The New Richard Nixon]

So The South China Sea problem is America's fault?
Russia fighting Rebels in Chechena?
The world's problems started during WW2 and the cold war.

[and then]

Wow, a white bread angry young man.  Those are rare, especially ones who hate Israel. Whatever, Soul.  BTW, can you smell the bodies from where you live in Syria?

This guy wants the US to stop helping the demon Israelis.  Did it ever occur to you, living in the neighborhood, what would happen to you if Israel suddenly found itself alone?
At some point some enterprising Arab leader would decide to eradicate this "cancer" from the landscape.  Maybe at the time this brave soul decides to stand up for the Palestinians he sees Israel's army has become weakened for lack of support from America.  And maybe an American president who, like Obama, really dislikes Israel, is in power and states publicly that he will not support Israel in a war.  Is this wet dream working for you so far?  So now Muhammad (I chose that name to be safe)begins to rally all the nations around Israel to his cause and they make their plans and martial their troops and attack.
The Golan is over run and southern Israel crumbles due to all the rocket fire from Hamas.  Judea and Samaria are in the midst of room to room fighting in the settlements.  Now Egypt comes across the border and it's tanks are on the way to TelAviv, or what's left of it after all the rockets from Lebanon.  Yep, it's a bad day for Israel.  The Nakba is finally being answered.  So the Israelis, seeing defeat, raise a white flag and beg for mercy for their children, right?  Nah, don't think so.  They know that to lose this war means to die.  ALL of them.  So, having nothing more to lose they keep the vow they made so many years ago...never again would they be killed without answering blood for blood.  F-16s and Jericho missiles begin a quick journey to Damascus, Cairo,Riyadh, Baghdad, Tehran, Moscow, Washington and maybe a few others.
What, Soul, do you really expect them to just sit at home and be butchered?  Or maybe you think Allah will deliver them into your hands?  If America and the West walk away from Israel or worse yet, actually turn on her, then relatively quickly the idiots in the region will push her into destroying them all.
As a Christian Zionist people accuse me of wanting just such a scenario.  If that were the case, wouldn't I be cheering for the Muslims?  Hoping they would attack as soon as possible?
The truth is that NO ONE pushes God into any kind of action.  He is the one who decides.

Edited by and then, 14 April 2012 - 09:52 PM.

[The New Richard Nixon]

and then, on 14 April 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

Wow, a white bread angry young man.  Those are rare, especially ones who hate Israel. Whatever, Soul.  BTW, can you smell the bodies from where you live in Syria?

This guy wants the US to stop helping the demon Israelis.  Did it ever occur to you, living in the neighborhood, what would happen to you if Israel suddenly found itself alone?
At some point some enterprising Arab leader would decide to eradicate this "cancer" from the landscape.  Maybe at the time this brave soul decides to stand up for the Palestinians he sees Israel's army has become weakened for lack of support from America.  And maybe an American president who, like Obama, really dislikes Israel, is in power and states publicly that he will not support Israel in a war.  Is this wet dream working for you so far?  So now Muhammad (I chose that name to be safe)begins to rally all the nations around Israel to his cause and they make their plans and martial their troops and attack.
The Golan is over run and southern Israel crumbles due to all the rocket fire from Hamas.  Judea and Samaria are in the midst of room to room fighting in the settlements.  Now Egypt comes across the border and it's tanks are on the way to TelAviv, or what's left of it after all the rockets from Lebanon.  Yep, it's a bad day for Israel.  The Nakba is finally being answered.  So the Israelis, seeing defeat, raise a white flag and beg for mercy for their children, right?  Nah, don't think so.  They know that to lose this war means to die.  ALL of them.  So, having nothing more to lose they keep the vow they made so many years ago...never again would they be killed without answering blood for blood.  F-16s and Jericho missiles begin a quick journey to Damascus, Cairo,Riyadh, Baghdad, Tehran, Moscow, Washington and maybe a few others.
What, Soul, do you really expect them to just sit at home and be butchered?  Or maybe you think Allah will deliver them into your hands?  If America and the West walk away from Israel or worse yet, actually turn on her, then relatively quickly the idiots in the region will push her into destroying them all.
As a Christian Zionist people accuse me of wanting just such a scenario.  If that were the case, wouldn't I be cheering for the Muslims?  Hoping they would attack as soon as possible?
The truth is that NO ONE pushes God into any kind of action.  He is the one who decides.

You know if America didn't help Israel, the problems would have still existed but with new countries, The USSR would have done the same if it was in America's position.

[wittyusernamefailed]

Also Israel is for better or worse, one of the few allies we have in the region. And i tend to doubt that changing colors and plunging a dagger in Israels back would make any of the millions of people that hate the U.S. for over 50 years worth of policy; to suddenly start going all loving. No, they would still hate us, we would still be the "Great Satan," we'd just have 1 less ally. Not a really bright move.

[ninjadude]

And then, you have this jones for Israel for religious reasons. Personally it's just not that important. The entire region has an inflated view of itself. Remove the religious nonsense and the "conflicts" attain their true significance.

[Babe Ruth]

I agree that the US government is about 75% under the control of the Israeli government.  Hand in glove, is a good way to describe the relationship between the countries.  

[and then]

ninjadude, on 15 April 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

And then, you have this jones for Israel for religious reasons. Personally it's just not that important. The entire region has an inflated view of itself. Remove the religious nonsense and the "conflicts" attain their true significance.

This is true, I never denied it.  And, Dude, it really is that important if you open your mind to what the day after would look like in the rest of the world.  No matter how much anyone vilifies this country they still have the bomb.  As Tom Clancy said in one of his novels: "If you're going to kick a tiger in it's ass, you might want to have a plan for what to do with it's teeth."
Meaning that the Palestinians and the Arabs are playing this for keeps.  They well and truly want to eradicate the State of Israel and KILL ALL THE JEWS.  Those aren't my words, they belong to people like Abbas, Assad, Nasrallah and Meshael.  You know, Israel's closest neighbors?
And whether you or I believe their issues are nonsense is irrelevant.  They obviously feel they are worth killing and dying for.  If Israel loses the support of the US then no one would fill that vacuum.  They would very soon be attacked by their neighbors and IF they were close to being over run they would use their nukes.  No question about this.  A lot who discuss their military power just assume they can handle any contingency.  Any military can lose a battle - look at Lebanon in 2006.  This is more than just some esoteric political contrivance to them.  It is survival to them.  The myth is that everything would be dandy if Israel went back to the '47 lines.  Those were the lines they had to defend against 6 Arab armies that would not countenance their existence in the first place.  The sentiment still hasn't changed.  But Israel's ability to enforce their will has.

[ninjadude]

and then, on 15 April 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

the day after would look like in the rest of the world.

the day after what? is this more secret zionist code?

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They well and truly want to eradicate the State of Israel and KILL ALL THE JEWS.  

there are nations that want to kill all the US, UK, western europe, etc. The jews don't get any special consideration.

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If Israel loses the support of the US then no one would fill that vacuum.

then Israel would stop being beliigerent and deal with it's neighbors.

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  But Israel's ability to enforce their will has.

and you wonder why Iran wants one too.

[MichaelW]

Angry brainwashed Syrian is angry brainwashed Syrian.

[B Jenkins]

and then, on 15 April 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

This is more than just some esoteric political contrivance to them.  It is survival to them.  The myth is that everything would be dandy if Israel went back to the '47 lines.  Those were the lines they had to defend against 6 Arab armies that would not countenance their existence in the first place.  The sentiment still hasn't changed.  But Israel's ability to enforce their will has.

More mythologies, 4% of the Jewish Palestine population served in the British armed forces, and another 5% performed police and Home Guard functions. The British trained another 1,500 Jews as saboteur-commandos (later to become the "Palmah" unit of the Haganah) in the event of German occupation of Palestine. The Haganah was a loose militia in the 1920s, became more disciplined in the 1930s, and its use by the British during WWII conferred upon it quasi-legality.  By the end of 1942, 43,000 British-trained Jews from Palestine were under arms, most selected by the Jewish Agency. Many of these later became members of the Haganah, an illegal Jewish army under Mandate law.

The Six Day War was a joke, Israeli Air Force flew 500 sorties that attacked 19 Egyptian air bases in the Sinai, the Nile Delta, the Nile Valley, and Cairo. Israeli Air Force destroyed 309 of 340 servicable Egyptian combat aircraft including all 30 Tu-16 bombers.

Jordan lost its whole air force (20 planes), Syria lost two-thirds of its air force, and nearly all of Egypt's combat planes were destroyed. Total Arab combat aircraft lost during the Six Day War was 416. Of which 393 were destroyed while on the ground. I repeat 393 Arab combat aircraft were destroyed while grounded.

The Egyptian Army lost 80% of the its equipment including 700 tanks. Israel lost but 61 tanks.

The Arab casualties were between 20,000-30,000. Israeli casualties were between 759-766.

The old military maxim always rings true "he who controls the air, controls the war".

[and then]

Ambush Bug, on 11 September 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

More mythologies, 4% of the Jewish Palestine population served in the British armed forces, and another 5% performed police and Home Guard functions. The British trained another 1,500 Jews as saboteur-commandos (later to become the "Palmah" unit of the Haganah) in the event of German occupation of Palestine. The Haganah was a loose militia in the 1920s, became more disciplined in the 1930s, and its use by the British during WWII conferred upon it quasi-legality.  By the end of 1942, 43,000 British-trained Jews from Palestine were under arms, most selected by the Jewish Agency. Many of these later became members of the Haganah, an illegal Jewish army under Mandate law.

The Six Day War was a joke, Israeli Air Force flew 500 sorties that attacked 19 Egyptian air bases in the Sinai, the Nile Delta, the Nile Valley, and Cairo. Israeli Air Force destroyed 309 of 340 servicable Egyptian combat aircraft including all 30 Tu-16 bombers.

Jordan lost its whole air force (20 planes), Syria lost two-thirds of its air force, and nearly all of Egypt's combat planes were destroyed. Total Arab combat aircraft lost during the Six Day War was 416. Of which 393 were destroyed while on the ground. I repeat 393 Arab combat aircraft were destroyed while grounded.

The Egyptian Army lost 80% of the its equipment including 700 tanks. Israel lost but 61 tanks.

The Arab casualties were between 20,000-30,000. Israeli casualties were between 759-766.

The old military maxim always rings true "he who controls the air, controls the war".

You seem to be complaining that Israel was able to use surprise to tip the advantage their way.  You do realize they were at war, right?  Are you so childish in your outlook as to think that when people are actively killing each other they are going to be fair about how they do it?  And that's my point, Bug, the war that's coming will be no different.  The Arabs lose, spectacularly, in this one.  So badly that they finally have to make peace - at least for awhile.

[MichaelW]

Ambush Bug, on 11 September 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

Jordan lost its whole air force (20 planes), Syria lost two-thirds of its air force, and nearly all of Egypt's combat planes were destroyed. Total Arab combat aircraft lost during the Six Day War was 416. Of which 393 were destroyed while on the ground. I repeat 393 Arab combat aircraft were destroyed while grounded.

Generally speaking, that's what happens when you have the element of surprise. The enemy is caught flat-footed and you have the opportunity to achieve whatever goals necessary.

One of the basics of modern, or indeed, any form of warfare in general. I'm surprised that you find this incredible.

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The Egyptian Army lost 80% of the its equipment including 700 tanks. Israel lost but 61 tanks.

Ineffective Soviet tank tactics might have played a part in this. The Soviets trained the Egyptians in Soviet tank doctrines of the time: keeping their armour static in prepared, hull-down positions which made it difficult or near impossible for the Egyptians to react efficiently and adapt to the fluidity of battle.

The Israelis lost few tanks because their tanks were used what they were intended for: armoured spearheads, driving deep behind enemy lines and causing general chaos. Much like the Blitzkrieg tactics the Germans used against France and the Low Countries with similar effect.

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The Arab casualties were between 20,000-30,000. Israeli casualties were between 759-766.

The Egyptians/Arabs in general could field vastly larger armies than the Israelis could and Israel knew this and so tried to prevent unnecessary waste of men and materiel.

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The old military maxim always rings true "he who controls the air, controls the war".

Duh.

[Babe Ruth]

For all practical purposes, Israeli interests control the US government, especially in certain areas of foreign policy.

[Corp]

the-Unexpected-Soul, on 14 April 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

do you think that most of the world problems will stop if America stopped supporting Israel

No, not in the slightest. And it's beyond silly to suggest otherwise.


NHL lockout? Damn you America for supporting Israel!!!