80 replies to this topic

[karmakazi]

Meiliken, on 16 April 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

The earth needed plastic, didn't know how to make it, needed us.

Heh, rest in peace George Carlin.  

I second that!

[Leonardo]

LucidElement, on 15 April 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

Hey All, It's been a while since i've been on this site. Been a member since 2003. I actually spent most of my time in the History section. But, as a born and raised Catholic, first communion, and my confirmation all being achieved,.... I came across a question tonight online with the simple question.. "Why DOES GOD EXIST"? I know its a very debatable question (obviously) but im just curious to know what some of your perspectives are. For example, WE know why he "EXISTS" (we all have our own conclusions, that believe) but who created him? Where did he come from? I feel like someone always answers to someone?

Your question is analogous to another question of debatable merit - "Why does the universe exist?"

I say these are questions of debatable merit because both presume some purpose to the existence of something which (in both cases) is alleged to have an eternal existence. If there is such a thing as 'eternal existence', then whatever has that as a property of itself can have no 'purpose' in existing.

In the case of a conscious entity, such as an eternal god, we might be able to point to some temporary purpose for some duration of it's existence - but that purpose would be self-defined and cannot be said to be the 'purpose' for the existence of such a being.

[FurthurBB]

and then, on 15 April 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

I think God exists because to assume there is no Creator is the greatest conceit a man can imagine.  The ultimate in willfulness.  That we, imperfect and grasping at answers as we are, could be the sum of everything? Really?  I believe Atheism is a "shake of the fist" to add emphasis to that conceit.  Not that I blame Atheists for wanting proof.  But if a night sky or the complexity of the human body and mind aren't enough then they could never be satisfied short of God appearing in person.  They also can feel they've claimed the high ground in the discussion because of the stupid, silly and just fruitless things that have been done in the name of world religion.  I have NO IDEA why God exists.  He is sovereign and He'll let me know what I need to know as I need to know it.  And as much as that attitude mystifies or even angers some people, I'm completely okay with it.  But that's just me.

Funny, I think believing in a god is the ultimate conceit because it leads one to believe they are somehow better and divinely created.  The night sky and the human body are only proof of the night sky and the human body, so that is really not a good analogy.

[FurthurBB]

and then, on 16 April 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

My point was that if we do not accept the existence of a Creator, then we essentially are, all that there is.  A random occurrence without meaning that came and went no matter how much we try to enjoy or create.  I don't believe that.  I believe that those who have not come to faith see no need for God and busy themselves with reinventing every design and emotion that has been here since the first man awakened.  And to me that is a conceit.

I am sorry, that way is no better.  It is not conceited to be curious and inventive, it is human nature.

[LucidElement]

After reading all your replies, some are very good. I realize that those who believe dont need an explanation, and those that dont believe in Evolution. But im just trying to figure out a couple ideas on HOW God came to Exist. Its kind of like the last name situation. Someone made up a last name years and years and years ago, from there we pass our name down. But someone started the first sequence of last names... However,  I just want to see your ideas on why God Exists.

[jivens]

We will never know the answer to that question. God made our minds finite so that we wouldn't know these mysteries. Jesus Christ is our lord and savior, and one needs to live in his word, that's ALL I'm concerned about. God himself put us in a dimension of time and space, and God is outside of that dimension, so we will never understand a lot of things.

It's funny how scientists insist that evolution is real, even though the fossil record shows incredibly small amounts of evidence, and can they explain the cambrian explosion away??

There is scientific proof of God's existence. In the bible itself it speaks of washing your hands in running water, the earth "hanging on nothing", the universe expanding, blood being what supports life, and numerous other topics, waaaaaaaay before science acknowledged any of these. Repent now to Jesus Christ the lord and savior or forever be lost.

[J. K.]

jivens, on 28 April 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

We will never know the answer to that question. God made our minds finite so that we wouldn't know these mysteries. Jesus Christ is our lord and savior, and one needs to live in his word, that's ALL I'm concerned about. God himself put us in a dimension of time and space, and God is outside of that dimension, so we will never understand a lot of things.

For me, this is a key to understanding.  God exists outside of our time and space existence, and we cannot fully grasp that....yet.  I think that our ultimate spiritual destiny will result in our understanding more of how it works.

As for why God exists (this question being directed at believers, for it assumes the existence of God), I don't think we can comprehend that yet either.  I've heard it said that God has to exist because He is the ultimate supreme being, but I find that to be untenable, almost a cop-out.

[Englishgent]

jivens, on 28 April 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

We will never know the answer to that question. God made our minds finite so that we wouldn't know these mysteries. Jesus Christ is our lord and savior, and one needs to live in his word, that's ALL I'm concerned about. God himself put us in a dimension of time and space, and God is outside of that dimension, so we will never understand a lot of things.

It's funny how scientists insist that evolution is real, even though the fossil record shows incredibly small amounts of evidence, and can they explain the cambrian explosion away??

There is scientific proof of God's existence. In the bible itself it speaks of washing your hands in running water, the earth "hanging on nothing", the universe expanding, blood being what supports life, and numerous other topics, waaaaaaaay before science acknowledged any of these. Repent now to Jesus Christ the lord and savior or forever be lost.

It's a shame that what you wrote above is ALL you are concerned about.
If you studied evolution as much as you appear to study that fictional novel called the bible, you would understand just how much evidence there is to support evolution.
Also, there is NO evidence that your god, or any other god exists. Your god did NOT write the bible. Man did. (once he had evolved siufficiently well to be able to write!)
Well, it looks like I am gong to be lost forever, as I have absolutely nothing to repent

[antonT]

God exists for those that believe in him because they have evolved a need for him through Natural Selection.  He would not need to have come from anywhere as he would have existed forever.

Only humans need to have a beginning and an end as they don't seem to be able to handle existence without them. Strange.

Which came first - something or nothing? Something always comes first because for there to be no thing there has to have been a thing in the first place for us to refer to.

Energy and matter are the same thing - this is proven. (E=mc2).  Energy/Matter  is the thing that has always existed.

Thus Energy = God  and for those of you who believe in God, Divine energy = God.

[Arbenol68]

jivens, on 28 April 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

It's funny how scientists insist that evolution is real, even though the fossil record shows incredibly small amounts of evidence, and can they explain the cambrian explosion away??

Yes they can. But that has nothing to do with this thread.

[HavocWing]

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Codependency

[dougeaton]

I find it amazing and arrognt how people have it all figured out.

doug

[blind pew]

LucidElement, on 15 April 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

Hey All, It's been a while since i've been on this site. Been a member since 2003. I actually spent most of my time in the History section. But, as a born and raised Catholic, first communion, and my confirmation all being achieved,.... I came across a question tonight online with the simple question.. "Why DOES GOD EXIST"? I know its a very debatable question (obviously) but im just curious to know what some of your perspectives are. For example, WE know why he "EXISTS" (we all have our own conclusions, that believe) but who created him? Where did he come from? I feel like someone always answers to someone?

god doesn't exist, never has   never will. I used to be fairly religious and prayed and what did I get? dick, that's what I got. If, and that's a BIG if, this so called god exists, and IF I ever see it I'm gonna punch it in the face and say thanks for nothing!

[Mr Walker]

LucidElement, on 16 April 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

But where did that spirit come from?

Out of the darkness came light. Out of the silence came sound. Out of nothing came something. Out of the unconscious came the conscious. Out of the non- aware came the aware.
I am with seeker on this. God is an evolved entity and, like us, is a natural product of the evolution of the "universe' .Neither god nor we require a reason, or a designer, or a plan, to be here and now as we are.  We are all "children" of the universe we live in.

God and we and, as seeker says, many other "informational constructs" have evolved as the universe has evolved. Many have evolved a self aware sapience or transcendental consciousness. I am not sure that was inevitable, but it happened and so we are here and, looking back, it appears as if it was inevitable; but that dont make it so.
Because god, like us and like the universe itself is a physical/ natural "thing", it is capapble of being measured and qualified/quantified by human science and human minds. Just not quite yet.

Heck we arent yet quite at the point of fully understanding our own selves. (eg the nature of human consiousness or why we all develop different languages; and certainly we are still conjecturing about the nature and origins of the universe as we curently perceive it. We cant yet manipulate matter and energy at atomic levels, at any more than a primitive level, and we cant transmit and receive physical objects or thoughts very effectively yet. But eventually, given time, we wil get there. We will know ourselves, know the universe, and thus as part of this process, know god.

God is "woven into the fabric of our unverse" itself, through evoluton and technology, and before too long we will be able to accomplish this ourselves. Then we will be able to understand and comunicate with god much more clearly and effectively.

Edited by Mr Walker, 30 April 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[Bella-Angelique]

God exists because existence demands that there be order.