80 replies to this topic

[LucidElement]

Hey All, It's been a while since i've been on this site. Been a member since 2003. I actually spent most of my time in the History section. But, as a born and raised Catholic, first communion, and my confirmation all being achieved,.... I came across a question tonight online with the simple question.. "Why DOES GOD EXIST"? I know its a very debatable question (obviously) but im just curious to know what some of your perspectives are. For example, WE know why he "EXISTS" (we all have our own conclusions, that believe) but who created him? Where did he come from? I feel like someone always answers to someone?

[preacherman76]

From my POV God is eternal. Out side of time and space. As hard as that is to conceive, when I think about, it really cant go any other way. At the very least something has always been. And what ever that eternal something is, all things came from it, or him. There never could have been a time of nothingness, cause if that were so, how could anything ever be? From our limited understanding, 0+0=0 every time, with out fail. Not only that but what ever or who ever that eternal something is, it must also have willed all we see into existance.

[Alienated Being]

I think the more important question that should be asked is not "why", but rather simply, "does a god exist?".

[and then]

I think God exists because to assume there is no Creator is the greatest conceit a man can imagine.  The ultimate in willfulness.  That we, imperfect and grasping at answers as we are, could be the sum of everything? Really?  I believe Atheism is a "shake of the fist" to add emphasis to that conceit.  Not that I blame Atheists for wanting proof.  But if a night sky or the complexity of the human body and mind aren't enough then they could never be satisfied short of God appearing in person.  They also can feel they've claimed the high ground in the discussion because of the stupid, silly and just fruitless things that have been done in the name of world religion.  I have NO IDEA why God exists.  He is sovereign and He'll let me know what I need to know as I need to know it.  And as much as that attitude mystifies or even angers some people, I'm completely okay with it.  But that's just me.

[Seeker79]

LucidElement, on 15 April 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

Hey All, It's been a while since i've been on this site. Been a member since 2003. I actually spent most of my time in the History section. But, as a born and raised Catholic, first communion, and my confirmation all being achieved,.... I came across a question tonight online with the simple question.. "Why DOES GOD EXIST"? I know its a very debatable question (obviously) but im just curious to know what some of your perspectives are. For example, WE know why he "EXISTS" (we all have our own conclusions, that believe) but who created him? Where did he come from? I feel like someone always answers to someone?

Simple. All informational constructs through evolution evenchually lead to transcendent concousness. All there has to be is something, then evenchually universal concousness must evolve. Of course with infinity, this has occured infinantly long ago and is in a state of continual evolution. There must be a great spirit. If there is not, there will be. If there will be, most likely there already was one.

Edited by Seeker79, 15 April 2012 - 11:48 PM.

[LucidElement]

But where did that spirit come from?

[Cybele]

and then, on 15 April 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

I think God exists because to assume there is no Creator is the greatest conceit a man can imagine.  The ultimate in willfulness.  That we, imperfect and grasping at answers as we are, could be the sum of everything? Really?  I believe Atheism is a "shake of the fist" to add emphasis to that conceit.

I think it more conceited of us to believe that we are special enough to have warranted creation and esteem by a god. Just about all religions are incredibly self-centered in that they place man in the center of the universe; the ultimate preoccupation of some omnipotent and omniscient being. It is the religious viewpoint, not the atheistic one, which considers us to be the pinnacle of existence. Really, we're insignificant on a cosmic scale.

[Arbenol68]

and then, on 15 April 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

I think God exists because to assume there is no Creator is the greatest conceit a man can imagine.  The ultimate in willfulness.  That we, imperfect and grasping at answers as we are, could be the sum of everything?

I can't agree with this at all. I think the bolded part of your post there reflects what a lot of religious people think. That humans are "the sum of everything" and the raison d'etre of the universe. It is absolutely incorrect to say that a disbelief in god would be associated with this type of thinking.

I can't speak for all, but my view of humans is that we occupy an almost infinitesimally small part of the cosmos, for an almost infinitesimally small period of time, and that our existence is entirely inconsequential in the whole scheme of things. And I don't think that's a bleak and hopeless view because, whilst we're here, our individual and collective existence is what we should all value and make the most of. The universe will keep chugging along long after we've gone,just as it did before we arrived on the scene.

I think that's about as far from conceit as you can get. But that's just me.

[and then]

Arbenol68, on 16 April 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

I can't agree with this at all. I think the bolded part of your post there reflects what a lot of religious people think. That humans are "the sum of everything" and the raison d'etre of the universe. It is absolutely incorrect to say that a disbelief in god would be associated with this type of thinking.

I can't speak for all, but my view of humans is that we occupy an almost infinitesimally small part of the cosmos, for an almost infinitesimally small period of time, and that our existence is entirely inconsequential in the whole scheme of things. And I don't think that's a bleak and hopeless view because, whilst we're here, our individual and collective existence is what we should all value and make the most of. The universe will keep chugging along long after we've gone,just as it did before we arrived on the scene.

I think that's about as far from conceit as you can get. But that's just me.

My point was that if we do not accept the existence of a Creator, then we essentially are, all that there is.  A random occurrence without meaning that came and went no matter how much we try to enjoy or create.  I don't believe that.  I believe that those who have not come to faith see no need for God and busy themselves with reinventing every design and emotion that has been here since the first man awakened.  And to me that is a conceit.

[ZaraKitty]

Why do WE exist?

[Meiliken]

ZaraKitty, on 16 April 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

Why do WE exist?

The earth needed plastic, didn't know how to make it, needed us.

Heh, rest in peace George Carlin.  

[Alienated Being]

and then, on 15 April 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

I think God exists because to assume there is no Creator is the greatest conceit a man can imagine.  The ultimate in willfulness.  That we, imperfect and grasping at answers as we are, could be the sum of everything? Really?  I believe Atheism is a "shake of the fist" to add emphasis to that conceit.  Not that I blame Atheists for wanting proof.  But if a night sky or the complexity of the human body and mind aren't enough then they could never be satisfied short of God appearing in person.  They also can feel they've claimed the high ground in the discussion because of the stupid, silly and just fruitless things that have been done in the name of world religion.  I have NO IDEA why God exists.  He is sovereign and He'll let me know what I need to know as I need to know it.  And as much as that attitude mystifies or even angers some people, I'm completely okay with it.  But that's just me.

While it is complex, I see no evidence of intelligent design. In fact, one fine piece of evidence to suggest the contrary of intelligent design is the layout of the laryngeal nerve.

Edited by Alienated Being, 16 April 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[Cybele]

and then, on 16 April 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

My point was that if we do not accept the existence of a Creator, then we essentially are, all that there is.

This is a very anthropocentric view. If there is no creator, we are still and incredibly small part of all that there is. We're far outnumbered and will be far outlived, on a species level, by insects on this planet. If we go extinct, evolution and life on Earth will continue. And of course the Earth is only an incredibly small part of the universe and probably of life in the universe.

[Seeker79]

LucidElement, on 16 April 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

But where did that spirit come from?

Evolution.

[lightly]

o