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God Vs Logic


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#1    1Ophelia

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:13 AM

I am simply going to dot point information suggesting God was not real. Debate them if you please.

1.Probably the most asked question about god! Christians say that God created everything, everything that exsists. Who created God?

2.Christians also say that you should love everybody and treat them fairly.
Example of hatred caused by God/Christians.
a) Have you ever seen Missippi burning the movie? They used religion as an excuse to treat these people like animals (and many other excuses) this really did happen, in case your not aware of that?
B) Fights are caused over Religions. It's happened in the past, it's happening in the present and will be happening in the future. So much love.
c) Hate on Homosexual? against your religon.
d) Send non believers to hell? Even if the non believer has not done anything significally bad, Oh I suppose not believing in a God that's never seen or has evidence he ever exsisted is a terrible sin and we sha'll be punished for it?
e)Nazi's were christians?
f)Crusaders who raped, killed and looted people in the name of "God".

Simply look at your history and see how much "love" Christians/Gods have caused. Witches are a good example. If a women was accused of being a witch she were to be burned alive. So loving.

Now I'm not saying that ALL christians are non loving, though just open your eyes and see what your 'loving' faith has done.

3. The bible states that God created Adam and Eve, first before any other life (Besides plantation I'm assuming) Humans they were ofcourse. So what do you call those archeaological discoveries known as dinosaurs?

4.


#2    1Ophelia

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:25 AM

4. It's impossible to inpregnant someone unless they had sexual intercourse. So how did the "virgin mary" fall pregnant again?

5. Simply there isn't any evidence of God exsisting, if there is any please post a reply.

There are many reasons why God hasn't, isn't and never will exsist, only in our imaginations ;) Ofcourse.

Sorry about the previous post, it seemed to have automatically posted itself? Rather annoying actually. Didn't get to check my grammar, Oh well you get the point.


#3    Timonthy

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:56 AM

View Post1Ophelia, on 16 April 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:

4. It's impossible to inpregnant someone unless they had sexual intercourse. So how did the "virgin mary" fall pregnant again?
Not impossible at all. What about AI?

She could have fallen pregnant by means other than contemporary sexual intercourse.

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#4    _Only

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:13 AM

Here's some answers, for the sake of interest. Some may be what I believe, some what I think could be possible, some may be me being a devil's advocate. I'm not saying which is which. :D

1. God wasn't created. God always has been, and always will be.

2. Wasn't a question, but just going to say that not all who believe in various forms of "God" are Christians, and those less than desirable deeds you mentioned were done by the will of man, with the interpreted moral backing of their God. And maybe "Hell" isn't such a literal burning pit of endless pain and suffering, but a state of mind, or being. But main point, man will do what man will do. I don't see how blaming their god will account for their wrongdoings, even when they might.

3. Again, think you're taking a commonly morphing symbolic story that has been in many different religions and mythologies, and trying to paint it in black and white hues, taking it at a literal face value.

4. See answer #3.

5. I would have been right with you on this one in the past, but was shocked myself when I had received some evidence, very personally. But it goes beyond what someone could tell someone else I believe, even if I was able to write it all out and share it with you. I feel these things are fine-tuned to our self, and to share our personal experiences (or evidence), it wouldn't be translated as it should be understood. I think maybe if you're looking for evidence of God outside of yourself from others, you're right, you will get none. Reminded of this quote from the now deceased Yogi Bhajan:

Quote

"We are all trained in the Piscean Age to find God outside of us. That's [what] the religion has taught us... that look for God... and the way some of our children and teenagers are confused, as once we were confused, because we did not teach them to find God within the self. So when you do not try to find God within yourself, you do not find God at all."

I don't think it's safe for you, a mere mortal woman, to say with such certainty that a God does or does not exist, based on how you see the world. :P And if you can't trust what goes on in your own mind, what can you trust? Not yourself, that's for sure. You can't trust someone who thinks you're insane.

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#5    Meiliken

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:47 AM

View Post_Only, on 16 April 2012 - 03:13 AM, said:

Here's some answers, for the sake of interest. Some may be what I believe, some what I think could be possible, some may be me being a devil's advocate. I'm not saying which is which. :D

1. God wasn't created. God always has been, and always will be.

An assumption based on nothing.

View Post_Only, on 16 April 2012 - 03:13 AM, said:

3. Again, think you're taking a commonly morphing symbolic story that has been in many different religions and mythologies, and trying to paint it in black and white hues, taking it at a literal face value.

That's all religions throughout history since the beginnings of the written language.

The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself
Sir Richard Francis Burton

There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance
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A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence.
David Hume

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
Aldous Huxley

#6    everwonder

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 04:06 AM

Iv always wonderd about the dinosaur part.. and what if during the big bang, if that's how it all really started.. maby a concious being (god) manifested from it and is all around us :)      or maby if there is a spiritual place maby, the atoms and protons and all that stuff leaked of into this realm or deminsion and cause the big bang or something... I think the aliens had a big part in religion.. they used a big nuke weapon or pulled a comet in and killed the big lizards to make room for their creation. Ok I'm just.rambling now ;)


#7    everwonder

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 04:06 AM

Iv always wonderd about the dinosaur part.. and what if during the big bang, if that's how it all really started.. maby a concious being (god) manifested from it and is all around us :)      or maby if there is a spiritual place maby, the atoms and protons and all that stuff leaked of into this realm or deminsion and cause the big bang or something... I think the aliens had a big part in religion.. they used a big nuke weapon or pulled a comet in and killed the big lizards to make room for their creation. Ok I'm just.rambling now ;)


#8    _Only

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 04:45 AM

View PostMeiliken, on 16 April 2012 - 03:47 AM, said:

An assumption based on nothing.

I guess so. But see #5. Try it out some time. Really try it out. You might surprise yourself on some random day. Or it could be nothing. If so, any opinion on the subject is an assumption based on nothing.


Quote

That's all religions throughout history since the beginnings of the written language.

How they were meant to be, or how they are commonly interpreted? Because they are interpreted both literally, and as metaphor, often by varying opinions on a same "side".

Edited by _Only, 16 April 2012 - 04:52 AM.

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#9    Meiliken

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:00 AM

View Post_Only, on 16 April 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

I guess so. But see #5. Try it out some time. Really try it out. You might surprise yourself on some random day. Or it could be nothing. If so, any opinion on the subject is an assumption based on nothing.

Aye, though even people that are taking drugs can have a hallucination.  It doesn't make their experience real.  The human brain is an very interesting piece of biology.  Chemical imabalances can make all sorts of things happen.  Case in point, if a person sees shadow creatures, it's an indication of schizophrenia, though the person may think it is demons following him.  I would never take a vision at face value.  Good rule of thumb.

The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself
Sir Richard Francis Burton

There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance
Hippocrates

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence.
David Hume

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
Aldous Huxley

#10    Englishgent

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:23 AM

View Post_Only, on 16 April 2012 - 03:13 AM, said:

I don't think it's safe for you, a mere mortal woman, to say with such certainty that a God does or does not exist, based on how you see the world. :P And if you can't trust what goes on in your own mind, what can you trust? Not yourself, that's for sure. You can't trust someone who thinks you're insane.

Hi _Only
With all due respect, I think it is perfectly safe for a ''mere mortal'' woman or man to say with certainty that there is no god. Just as safe as it is for believers to say there is. Which one of us is the insane person?  Neither.
I can say with absolute certainty that there is no god because that is what I truly believe and nobody has yet convinced me otherwise.  You, and other believers would say totally the opposite. I can respect that and have no problem with it. :)

edit....typo :)
second edit....by the way, logic would suggest there is no god :innocent:

Edited by Englishgent, 16 April 2012 - 05:25 AM.


#11    _Only

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:30 AM

View PostEnglishgent, on 16 April 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

Hi _Only
With all due respect, I think it is perfectly safe for a ''mere mortal'' woman or man to say with certainty that there is no god. Just as safe as it is for believers to say there is. Which one of us is the insane person?  Neither.
I can say with absolute certainty that there is no god because that is what I truly believe and nobody has yet convinced me otherwise.  You, and other believers would say totally the opposite. I can respect that and have no problem with it. :)

edit....typo :)

Perfectly safe to say there is no god. Not perfectly safe to say with certainty, though, that you know it is the truth. Believing and knowing are two very different things. Absolute certainty isn't a term to throw around loosely, especially when others will get easily offended when you aren't able to back up why.

And I personally don't follow any religion, or believe in any certain God, by the way. I am just open to the idea. But I can't pretend to know with absolute certainty.

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#12    White Crane Feather

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:32 AM

View PostEnglishgent, on 16 April 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

Hi _Only
With all due respect, I think it is perfectly safe for a ''mere mortal'' woman or man to say with certainty that there is no god. Just as safe as it is for believers to say there is. Which one of us is the insane person?  Neither.
I can say with absolute certainty that there is no god because that is what I truly believe and nobody has yet convinced me otherwise.  You, and other believers would say totally the opposite. I can respect that and have no problem with it. :)

edit....typo :)
second edit....by the way, logic would suggest there is no god :innocent:
The abrahamic god or any collective god? And if any how how exactly does logic suggest that?

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#13    Englishgent

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:37 AM

View Post_Only, on 16 April 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

Perfectly safe to say there is no god. Not perfectly safe to say with certainty, though, that you know it is the truth. Believing and knowing are two very different things. Absolute certainty isn't a term to throw around loosely, especially when others will get easily offended when you aren't able to back up why.

And I personally don't follow any religion, or believe in any certain God, by the way. I am just open to the idea. But I can't pretend to know with absolute certainty.

Well _Only.
There are people here who will say, with absolute certainty that there IS a god.  They will say they know this,,,,well,,because they do!  They cant back it up other than saying, they just know.
I dont see how me saying that with absolute certainty there is NO god can offend anyone. It is what I believe just as they believe the opposite. I dont get offended at them so why should they be offended by what I say?


#14    Englishgent

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:44 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 16 April 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

The abrahamic god or any collective god? And if any how how exactly does logic suggest that?
Hi Seeker,
I dont find it logical to believe in texts that were written thousands of years ago which cannot be backed up by evidence, whether it be the bible or any other religous book. For logical answers I prefer the scientific methods of proving one thing or another.


#15    _Only

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:05 AM

View PostEnglishgent, on 16 April 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

Well _Only.
There are people here who will say, with absolute certainty that there IS a god.  They will say they know this,,,,well,,because they do!  They cant back it up other than saying, they just know.
I dont see how me saying that with absolute certainty there is NO god can offend anyone. It is what I believe just as they believe the opposite. I dont get offended at them so why should they be offended by what I say?

But getting even with the other side of the fence by saying the same thing they do, but from your side, doesn't make you, or them, any more certain than you or they believe.

And you know why some would get offended. They believe something. But your belief is that they are wrong. No one wants to be told that they are wrong. Especially in something they devote their life and morals to. I don't think an atheist devotes their lives, emotions, and morals to nothing, which is what you believe in. Easy to not get offended when there is no dedication to defend. That's where the difference is that I think you miss. :P

Edited by _Only, 16 April 2012 - 06:10 AM.

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