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5 Founding Fathers whose Skepticism would


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#1    THE MATRIX

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:32 PM

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To hear the Religious Right tell it, men like George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were 18th-century versions of Jerry Falwell in powdered wigs and stockings. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Unlike many of today’s candidates, the founders didn’t find it necessary to constantly wear religion on their sleeves. They considered faith a private affair. Contrast them to former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (who says he wouldn’t vote for an atheist for president because non-believers lack the proper moral grounding to guide the American ship of state), Texas Gov. Rick Perry (who hosted a prayer rally and issued an infamous ad accusing President Barack Obama of waging a “war on religion”) and former Pennsylvania senator Rick Santorum (whose uber-Catholicism leads him to oppose not just abortion but birth control).

There was a time when Americans voted for candidates who were skeptical of core concepts of Christianity like the Trinity, the divinity of Jesus and the virgin birth. The question is, could any of them get elected today? The sad answer is probably not.



#2    SolarPlexus

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:42 PM

I know this one ...

"I would sooner believe that two Yankee professors lied, than that stones fell from the sky"
~ Thomas Jefferson, 1807 after hearing an eyewitness report of falling meteorites.

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#3    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:42 PM

I think at least some of the GOP would have Washington throwing his wooden teeth at them in a fit of pique frankly.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
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#4    questionmark

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:48 PM

There is nothing wrong with using religion as a guide, the problem is when it ends in bigotry and hypocrisy.  Which is what mixing religion with politics always ends up with in the US.

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#5    preacherman76

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:05 PM

I like what Ron Paul had to say about how his Christian up bringing would effect his administration. I cant remember word for word, but it was something to the effect of giving him conviction to take his oath of office as serious as possible.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#6    and then

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 11:10 PM

The matrix seems to be on an anti Christianity rant today.  What's wrong, man?  Did it suddenly occur to you that America and the world would just be better off without Christians?

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#7    Aus Der Box Skeptisch

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:06 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 17 April 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

I think at least some of the GOP would have Washington throwing his wooden teeth at them in a fit of pique frankly.
You do know they were not wooden... yes?

"Though I stand in opposition to you, I am not opposed to you. Night and Day stand in opposition to each other, but they are not opposed to each other -they are merely two halves of the same coin."

#8    Ashotep

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:09 AM

Look at it this way, if they are ranting on about their religion at least I know what they are about.  I do wish they would keep their religion out of politics. I think religion is fine but I don't want it running our government or making our laws.  Newt is a fine one to talk about morals.


#9    THE MATRIX

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:16 AM

View Postand then, on 17 April 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

The matrix seems to be on an anti Christianity rant today.  What's wrong, man?  Did it suddenly occur to you that America and the world would just be better off without Christians?

What and let Christianity get away with all the hypocrisy, corruption, fear and war mongering, intolerance, and oppression  by hiding behind the good book in order to continue to justify doing those things. Hell no!


#10    Babe Ruth

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:58 AM

The First Amendment and other parts of the US Constitution require the government to be NEUTRAL in matters of religion.  Freedom of religion, and freedome from religion.

Religion must stay IN the church house, and OUT OF the state house.


#11    preacherman76

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:57 AM

View PostTHE MATRIX, on 18 April 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

What and let Christianity get away with all the hypocrisy, corruption, fear and war mongering, intolerance, and oppression  by hiding behind the good book in order to continue to justify doing those things. Hell no!


0bama is doing all that right now without any holy book.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#12    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:56 AM

View PostAus Der Box Skeptisch, on 18 April 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

You do know they were not wooden... yes?
They are Walrus tusk weren't they? Or Hippopatmus tooth, one of the two.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

You may think you're cool, but you'll never be as cool as Peter Capaldi with an electric guitar, on a tank, playing the Doctor Who theme.

#13    Corp

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:37 PM

I think the whole slavery and wiping out the Natives issues would have also caused them problems in modern elections :P

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#14    Bama13

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 05:39 PM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 17 April 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

I think at least some of the GOP would have Washington throwing his wooden teeth at them in a fit of pique frankly.

Do you think he would be happy with the Democrat's? I believe our founders would be wondering WTH happened to the plan they left us. And the freedoms. And the small, non-intrusive government.

" Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything —you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" - Robert Heinlein

#15    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:26 PM

View PostBama13, on 18 April 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

Do you think he would be happy with the Democrat's? I believe our founders would be wondering WTH happened to the plan they left us. And the freedoms. And the small, non-intrusive government.
Ahh but Washington wasn't a Democrat was he? He'd be roundly appalled at the sorry lot of them in all parties, but to se what the Republicans have become would sicken him I think.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

You may think you're cool, but you'll never be as cool as Peter Capaldi with an electric guitar, on a tank, playing the Doctor Who theme.




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