Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

What is Being?


  • Please log in to reply
55 replies to this topic

#1    ChloeB

ChloeB

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,050 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Female

  • “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” — Leonardo da Vinci

Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:00 AM

Quote

Martin Heidegger (September 26, 1889 – May 26, 1976); was a German philosopher known for his existential and phenomenological explorations of the "question of Being."[3]

Heidegger argues that philosophy is preoccupied with what exists and has forgotten the question of the "ground" of being. We find ourselves "always already" fallen into a world that already existed; but he insists that we have forgotten the basic question of what being itself is. This question defines our central nature. He argues that we are practical agents, caring and concerned about our projects in the world, and allowing it to reveal, or "unconceal" itself to us. He also says that our manipulation of reality is often harmful and hides our true being as essentially limited participants, not masters, of the world which we discover.

Heidegger wrote about these issues in his best-known book, Being and Time (1927), which is considered to be one of the most important philosophical works of the 20th century.

Heidegger claimed that Western philosophy since Plato has misunderstood what it means for something "to be", tending to approach this question in terms of a being, rather than asking about Being itself.  In other words, Heidegger believed all investigations of being have historically focused on particular entities and their properties, or have treated Being itself as an entity, or substance, with properties.  A more authentic analysis of being would, for Heidegger, investigate "that on the basis of which beings are already understood," or that which underlies all particular entities and allows them to show up as entities in the first place   But since philosophers and scientists have overlooked the more basic, pre-theoretical ways of being from which their theories derive, and since they have incorrectly applied those theories universally, they have confused our understanding of being and human existence. To avoid these deep-rooted misconceptions, Heidegger believed philosophical inquiry must be conducted in a new way, through a process of retracing the steps of the history of philosophy.

Heidegger argued that this misunderstanding, beginning with Plato, has left its traces in every stage of Western thought. All that we understand, from the way we speak to our notions of "common sense", is susceptible to error, to fundamental mistakes about the nature of being. These mistakes filter into the terms through which being is articulated in the history of philosophy—such as reality, logic, God, consciousness, and presence.
http://en.wikipedia....artin_Heidegger

First off, I'd ask what you think "being" is?  I see consistently,  people show up here and go on God and how God doesn't exist, no evidence for such, but is this difficulty with understanding what being is a contributing factor to understanding what God is?  And as Heidegger suggests we are so preoccupied with what "exists" and forgotten the question of the "ground of being", and as I bolded above the investigations have been focused on entities but a more authentic search would be for what underlies all entities and allows them to show up in the first place...........doesn't that sound more like what a God would be?  Yet we make and insist to look for God as an entity, a being, but not the source of being or the ground of being.  Is that the mistake we make in any kind of attempt at a discussion about God?

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”
― William W. Purkey

#2    jugoso

jugoso

    One Love

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,552 posts
  • Joined:13 Apr 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexico

  • "Freedom is free of the need to feel free. Free your mind and you ass will follow. The kingdom of heaven is within"
    G.Clinton

Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:25 AM

Awesome post!!
Real quickly between classes, Id say that being is our divine, timeless nature. It is our very essence and pure potentiality contrasted with doing which  involves  the miracle of life which gives us the concept of time and the ability to actually create and manifest this "being"into our lives. And yes, I think we have forgotten this.
I know for myself, it is very difficult for me to stop the constant chatter in my mind. I totally identify with it and I seem to never be able to shut it off. I think that´s one reason I´ve become much more interested in Eastern Philosophies . Things like Yoga and Tai Chi (hope you´re still sticking with it CloeB!) and other "meditative" practices have been around for centuries for a reason and my understanding (which isn´t very deep!)is they are designed to calm the mind amongst other things. I think tey allow us to "dis-entangle" ourselves from the world of forms (including thoughts)allowing us to perhaps get a peak at our true nature.

Edited by jugoso, 18 April 2012 - 01:44 AM.

"Freedom is free of the need to feel free.
Free your mind and you ass will follow.
The kingdom of heaven is within"
G.Clinton

#3    StarMountainKid

StarMountainKid

    Cheese

  • Member
  • 3,560 posts
  • Joined:17 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Star Mountain, Corporate States of America

  • We have problems because we stray from what is innocent and pure.

Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:52 AM

I quote from the OP's quote:

Quote

He also says that our manipulation of reality is often harmful and hides our true being as essentially limited participants, not masters, of the world which we discover.
I would say that when we manipulate reality we loose an intuitive understanding of that reality. When we allow reality and ourselves to just "be" with no interference, the "ground of being" is revealed.

The acceptance of authority does not lead to intelligence.
A mind untouched by thought...the end of knowledge.
My credentials: http://www.unexplain...ic=87935&st=225

#4    ChloeB

ChloeB

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,050 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Female

  • “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” — Leonardo da Vinci

Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:19 AM

View Postjugoso, on 18 April 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

Awesome post!!
Real quickly between classes, Id say that being is our divine, timeless nature. It is our very essence and pure potentiality contrasted with doing which  involves  the miracle of life which gives us the concept of time and the ability to actually create and manifest this "being"into our lives. And yes, I think we have forgotten this.
I know for myself, it is very difficult for me to stop the constant chatter in my mind. I totally identify with it and I seem to never be able to shut it off. I think that´s one reason I´ve become much more interested in Eastern Philosophies . Things like Yoga and Tai Chi (hope you´re still sticking with it CloeB!) and other "meditative" practices have been around for centuries for a reason and my understanding (which isn´t very deep!)is they are designed to calm the mind amongst other things. I think tey allow us to "dis-entangle" ourselves from the world of forms (including thoughts)allowing us to perhaps get a peak at our true nature.

Isn't it interesting though, that his world of forms is just what we've learned to think being is....to be fill in the blank, but then isn't what we are saying and SMK's post highlights this is as well, that Being is that very thing left when we disentangle ourselves from the world of form, that world Heidegger describes that we've already fallen into that already existed.  I'm not surprised to hear that at all about you, Jugoso, that you've been looking into Eastern Philosophies.  I am the same way, identifying with the mind chatter, I even catch myself telling that part to stop and knock it off.  Who is that or what is that, the one who observes the thoughts and the mind chatter is the question of all questions.  YES!  I'm still hanging in there with tai chi.  I went Saturday and Texas was blasted with super winds and we were out at the park trying to be all balanced, it was a unique challenge.  It's tough and he notices me getting frustrated with myself for not learning the form faster and he will say, as long as you relax and breathe, you are getting the benefits of it and I do always feel better.

Edited by ChloeB, 18 April 2012 - 02:36 AM.

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”
― William W. Purkey

#5    ChloeB

ChloeB

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,050 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Female

  • “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” — Leonardo da Vinci

Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:23 AM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 18 April 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

I quote from the OP's quote:

I would say that when we manipulate reality we loose an intuitive understanding of that reality. When we allow reality and ourselves to just "be" with no interference, the "ground of being" is revealed.

It's still hard to say what to just "be" is though isn't it?  I mean in my head it's not really, but I guess what Jugoso said, when you shut down on the mind chatter is that what you would say is to just be?

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”
― William W. Purkey

#6    Beany

Beany

    Poltergeist

  • 3,029 posts
  • Joined:26 Jul 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California

  • If music is the most universal language just think of me as one whole note. Nikki Giovanni

Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:51 AM

I've been thinking about the nature of being myself, and have had several conversations with a friend about it. I saw on a science show that we are breathing argon molecules that have been around for thousands of years, as has the air we're breathing. We share 99% of our DNA with the great apes, and all of our DNA comes from our ancestors. Some credible people believe that we are not separate from our environment, but are rather a part of it and that separation is an illusion. So I've been thinking about who we are beneath the skin, so to speak.

Do our bodies just sort of carry around or move around parts of the physical environment, temporarily rearranging it for a time? We certainly can't claim to be unique, given our DNA inheritance from thousands of generations of ancestors. Are we just the latest update of our ancestors? Do we carry their knowledge & experiences in our bodies as genetic memory? How much of what we assume to be "us" on a personal level is really part of a larger thing or consciousness? Are we simply an extension of physical/quantum reality? I find these thoughts a little unnerving, because they challenge a lot of my precepts and are causing me to rethink many of my ideas about what it means to be human, what it means to be Beany, what the nature of reality is at least as I can perceive it. I think what I find unsettling is not so much the letting go of some valued and cherished beliefs & assumptions, but that the ground moving forward seems really squishy. Does anyone have any thoughts about any of these ideas? I've got some blanks, but I'm not filling them in very well.

Edited by Beany, 18 April 2012 - 02:53 AM.


#7    ChloeB

ChloeB

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,050 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Female

  • “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” — Leonardo da Vinci

Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:09 AM

View PostBeany, on 18 April 2012 - 02:51 AM, said:

I've been thinking about the nature of being myself, and have had several conversations with a friend about it. I saw on a science show that we are breathing argon molecules that have been around for thousands of years, as has the air we're breathing. We share 99% of our DNA with the great apes, and all of our DNA comes from our ancestors. Some credible people believe that we are not separate from our environment, but are rather a part of it and that separation is an illusion. So I've been thinking about who we are beneath the skin, so to speak.

Do our bodies just sort of carry around or move around parts of the physical environment, temporarily rearranging it for a time? We certainly can't claim to be unique, given our DNA inheritance from thousands of generations of ancestors. Are we just the latest update of our ancestors? Do we carry their knowledge & experiences in our bodies as genetic memory? How much of what we assume to be "us" on a personal level is really part of a larger thing or consciousness? Are we simply an extension of physical/quantum reality? I find these thoughts a little unnerving, because they challenge a lot of my precepts and are causing me to rethink many of my ideas about what it means to be human, what it means to be Beany, what the nature of reality is at least as I can perceive it. I think what I find unsettling is not so much the letting go of some valued and cherished beliefs & assumptions, but that the ground moving forward seems really squishy. Does anyone have any thoughts about any of these ideas? I've got some blanks, but I'm not filling them in very well.

I have always just been amazed and this is just so wild to me, that every atom we are made of once was part of stars!  I think I have those same blanks too, but I'm right there where you are too, it being a little unnerving and challenging, but then I kind of like that too, pushing my limits.  But what you said, just made me think about that about stars and this quote by Carl Sagan:

Some part of our being knows this is where we came from. We long to return. And we can. Because the cosmos is also within us. We're made of star-stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.   I've always thought if you switch out Cosmos and God in that, it makes sense to me, even so much as a meaning of life for why we would be created, a way for God or the cosmos to know itself.  You called it something once, and I said I was going to borrow that, what was it?  Intelligent energy, that works for me in some way in my head.  All this is very hard to express, lol.

Edited by ChloeB, 18 April 2012 - 03:16 AM.

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”
― William W. Purkey

#8    Leonardo

Leonardo

    Awake

  • Member
  • 14,851 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

  • Hell is a guilty conscience

Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:38 AM

View PostChloeB, on 18 April 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:


First off, I'd ask what you think "being" is?

The state of self-aware existence.

Descartes rendition is probably the most famous.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#9    Black Red Devil

Black Red Devil

    Mean as Hell

  • Member
  • 2,297 posts
  • Joined:04 Oct 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney

  • I would if I could
    But I can't, so I won't

Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:33 AM

What is "being"?  It's the brain perceiving and interpreting essence through our 5 senses.  The important question is, why?

We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell

- Oscar Wilde

#10    ChloeB

ChloeB

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,050 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Female

  • “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” — Leonardo da Vinci

Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:26 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 18 April 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

The state of self-aware existence.

Descartes rendition is probably the most famous.

Hey Leo!  But does that work really?  If we look at wikipedia on self-awareness, this is what we've got:

Self-awareness is the capacity for introspection and the ability to reconcile oneself as an individual separate from the environment and other individuals. Self-awareness, though similar to sentience in concept, includes the experience of the self, and has been argued as implicit to the hard problem of consciousness.
http://en.wikipedia..../Self-awareness

And if you'll look over to the side on the link there, it says the mirror test is a measure of self-awareness.  I have a big goofy black lab and it's just one of my favorite things when he does this, but I've got a glass book case and he will every once in awhile be staring at it growling.  I laugh so much at him when he does it and I egg him on to get that dog, lol.  Once I even caught him standing up on his hind legs, front paws on the bathroom counter like a short hairy man staring at that strange dog in his bathroom!  So anyway, my dog, he's clueless that is him, he lacks self-awareness, but can we say he's not in a state of being?

Edited by ChloeB, 18 April 2012 - 01:27 PM.

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”
― William W. Purkey

#11    ChloeB

ChloeB

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,050 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Female

  • “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” — Leonardo da Vinci

Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:30 PM

View PostBlackRedLittleDevil, on 18 April 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

What is "being"?  It's the brain perceiving and interpreting essence through our 5 senses.  The important question is, why?

Okay, that gets my dog back into being, but so what you're saying is basically conscious, sentient right?  So would someone in a coma, in a state of unconsciousness not be in a state of being?  They are in a state of existence but not in a state of being?  

And that would lead me into my next question and all these does God "exist" debates......does something need to "exist" as we understand "exist" to be in a state of being?  Point being, God as a ground of all being, but existing isn't really what God is about...........maybe..........or I think, haha.

Edited by ChloeB, 18 April 2012 - 01:30 PM.

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”
― William W. Purkey

#12    Beany

Beany

    Poltergeist

  • 3,029 posts
  • Joined:26 Jul 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California

  • If music is the most universal language just think of me as one whole note. Nikki Giovanni

Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:02 PM

I think perceiving and interpreting involves more than 5 senses. I think there's an intuitive sense, an ESP kind of sensing, a pre-cognitive sensing, a genetic/body memory sensing, and possibly many more. While we definitely dwell in our bodies, I think there's a greater consciousness working that extends beyond our bodies that allows us to have experiences beyond the 5 sense.


#13    Leonardo

Leonardo

    Awake

  • Member
  • 14,851 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

  • Hell is a guilty conscience

Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:03 PM

View PostChloeB, on 18 April 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Hey Leo!  But does that work really?  If we look at wikipedia on self-awareness, this is what we've got:

Self-awareness is the capacity for introspection and the ability to reconcile oneself as an individual separate from the environment and other individuals. Self-awareness, though similar to sentience in concept, includes the experience of the self, and has been argued as implicit to the hard problem of consciousness.
http://en.wikipedia..../Self-awareness

And if you'll look over to the side on the link there, it says the mirror test is a measure of self-awareness.  I have a big goofy black lab and it's just one of my favorite things when he does this, but I've got a glass book case and he will every once in awhile be staring at it growling.  I laugh so much at him when he does it and I egg him on to get that dog, lol.  Once I even caught him standing up on his hind legs, front paws on the bathroom counter like a short hairy man staring at that strange dog in his bathroom!  So anyway, my dog, he's clueless that is him, he lacks self-awareness, but can we say he's not in a state of being?

Yes.

Your dog is not a 'being' (a la, the 'being' in "human being") as we would define it. Your dog exists, and has a sensory experience of it's environment - but it is not aware of it's self. I suppose you could argue it does not have a 'self'.

Your dog might have a personality, be able to feel and express emotions, etc - but all that means is those attributes are not necessarily requisite for the existence of 'self', or 'self-awareness'.

Your dog is conscious but not self-conscious, which is what seems to be essential for 'being'.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#14    Beany

Beany

    Poltergeist

  • 3,029 posts
  • Joined:26 Jul 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California

  • If music is the most universal language just think of me as one whole note. Nikki Giovanni

Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:11 PM

View PostChloeB, on 18 April 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....artin_Heidegger

First off, I'd ask what you think "being" is?  I see consistently,  people show up here and go on God and how God doesn't exist, no evidence for such, but is this difficulty with understanding what being is a contributing factor to understanding what God is?  And as Heidegger suggests we are so preoccupied with what "exists" and forgotten the question of the "ground of being", and as I bolded above the investigations have been focused on entities but a more authentic search would be for what underlies all entities and allows them to show up in the first place...........doesn't that sound more like what a God would be?  Yet we make and insist to look for God as an entity, a being, but not the source of being or the ground of being.  Is that the mistake we make in any kind of attempt at a discussion about God?
Thinking of God as an entity is limiting. What you call God I call Spirit, but my term is limiting, too. Back to informed intelligence! I sense or feel something huge, that's everywhere, permeating everything, that keeps the ball rolling, and is benign. As my ideas & perceptions shift, my understanding of it changes, but I may never fully understand it, which is OK.


#15    ChloeB

ChloeB

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,050 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Female

  • “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” — Leonardo da Vinci

Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:24 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 18 April 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Yes.

Your dog is not a 'being' (a la, the 'being' in "human being") as we would define it. Your dog exists, and has a sensory experience of it's environment - but it is not aware of it's self. I suppose you could argue it does not have a 'self'.

Your dog might have a personality, be able to feel and express emotions, etc - but all that means is those attributes are not necessarily requisite for the existence of 'self', or 'self-awareness'.

Your dog is conscious but not self-conscious, which is what seems to be essential for 'being'.

Well if we are using being as an entity, which is what Heidegger was saying the problem is, then my dog is a being, but I like where you're going with this.  I would say my dog has a self, that is what he is, himself, his personality and ability to feel and have emotions is his self, but what he doesn't have is that observer of his thoughts, as we've said that awareness of his self, and that we might say is what Being is, which some might argue is something separate from self.

“You've gotta dance like there's nobody watching,
Love like you'll never be hurt,
Sing like there's nobody listening,
And live like it's heaven on earth.”
― William W. Purkey




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users