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Who does NOT beleive in other lifeforms?


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#16    Aus Der Box Skeptisch

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:47 AM

Just to clarify... I'm not a Bible type personality.... just wanted to make that clear......

"Though I stand in opposition to you, I am not opposed to you. Night and Day stand in opposition to each other, but they are not opposed to each other -they are merely two halves of the same coin."

#17    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:16 AM

I wouldn't perhaps go as far as to say I Believe that the are, since (in the views of many, if not all) there doesn't seem to be defnite proof yet, but it seems very probable, in view of the fact the universe is, as a wise man once said, Big.

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

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#18    JayMark

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:49 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 18 April 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

I think if you used the search function you would find about a gazzillion thread asking the very same question.

Fair enough. But I haven't found any thread asking this very question.

Quote

The question of life outside of earth has never to my knowledge been put forth as unlikely on this board, and considering the number of members who are obviously academics, I do not see how anyone could think your question would apply to anyone on the board.

There is a diffrence between life and intelligent life. I have met various religious people for instance in my life that think that life is only confined to our planet. They had this very same argument as poster by Aus Der Box Skeptisch which is: "God would have told us if there was life other than our own. There is nothing in the Bible that would agree to other life...."

Quote

What anyone thinks about "deeply inside" matters only to that person so I do not see why anyone would put themselves into a position where their innermost feelings are exposed.

Many people here do expose their inner feelings. I see it everywhere in various forums and it is part of many discussions. I'm not forcing anyone to do so nor am I asking them to talk about very personal stuff.

Quote

And I do  not see what personal feelings have to do with the subject to be quite honest. If I have read the request wrong, could you please elaborate further.

Well, that was my question. Seems like you are interpreting it wrong. I am simply asking for those who do not beleive in other intelligent lifeforms to tell me why. And I was asking about how they feel about it inside to avoid going into the "lack of scientific evidence" argument simply because it does not in any way prove that other intelligent lifeforms exist anyways. I just wanted personal opinions on the question. I don't think I'm asking people to expose their entire inner-self.

Aus Der Box Skeptisch is a good example. He said the bible says no, but then said that's not how he feels about it. 747400 is also another good example. He says he dosen't really because of lack of evidence but at the same time feels that it is probable.

But now since there dosen't seem to be any people here who personaly don't beleive in it, we shall then keep going with what is said and bring other points.

I hope you get a better picture bro. I may have expressed myself in a not-so-clear way in the OP as well. No harm intended or taken.

Peace.

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#19    Mentalcase

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:34 PM

Pretty general, rhetorical question IMO. I assume that life is common in the Universe and intelligent life, not so common. :)

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#20    TSS

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:17 PM

I remember a similar discussion to this breaking out on ATS right back in the early days, when it was the old board. I do remember one person posting that he believed we were the most intelligent life in our galaxy, I don't know if he said the only intelligent life, but I remember him saying the most intelligent. Obviously that led to many people asking why he thought that, from memory his beliefs went as follows:

If you pictured time as all happening now, past present and future happening all together, that the Gods and mythology we wrote about in the past is just us in the future, and that the reason there is no tangible proof of any God existing is because it would be akin to questioning yourself on a subject you haven't yet learnt.....i'm guessing he wasn't implying we ascend to Gods in the future, simply that we didn't recognise ourselves in the future, when viewed from now or the past, hence attributing it to a higher power

Anyway, because of that, and because there has never been any proof forthcoming of an intelligent life out there, or God/s, which he believed would be undeniable on a global scale should it exist, then we must be the most intelligent at this current point in time, and it'll be us that are seen as God/s by upcoming life forms in tens and hundreds of centuries to come...

It was great thread from what I remember, plenty of ideas being thrown about....if I remember what user name I was using at the time, and assuming ATS archived all the old stuff before changing over, i'll pm you a link, cause it made for an interesting read if nothing else...


#21    JayMark

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:47 PM

View PostThe Sky Scanner, on 19 April 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

I remember a similar discussion to this breaking out on ATS right back in the early days, when it was the old board. I do remember one person posting that he believed we were the most intelligent life in our galaxy, I don't know if he said the only intelligent life, but I remember him saying the most intelligent. Obviously that led to many people asking why he thought that, from memory his beliefs went as follows:

If you pictured time as all happening now, past present and future happening all together, that the Gods and mythology we wrote about in the past is just us in the future, and that the reason there is no tangible proof of any God existing is because it would be akin to questioning yourself on a subject you haven't yet learnt.....i'm guessing he wasn't implying we ascend to Gods in the future, simply that we didn't recognise ourselves in the future, when viewed from now or the past, hence attributing it to a higher power

Anyway, because of that, and because there has never been any proof forthcoming of an intelligent life out there, or God/s, which he believed would be undeniable on a global scale should it exist, then we must be the most intelligent at this current point in time, and it'll be us that are seen as God/s by upcoming life forms in tens and hundreds of centuries to come...

It was great thread from what I remember, plenty of ideas being thrown about....if I remember what user name I was using at the time, and assuming ATS archived all the old stuff before changing over, i'll pm you a link, cause it made for an interesting read if nothing else...

Quite interesting. I'll check the link.

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#22    ZaraKitty

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:00 AM

Comprehend the vastness of the universe, then explain why we're the only things out there >.>

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#23    psyche101

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:34 AM

View PostJayMark, on 19 April 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Fair enough. But I haven't found any thread asking this very question.

I am sure with a modicum of effort that you will find the question is plentiful, to the best of my recollection, the majority seem to be of the same opinion that S2F is. That life may well be abundant, but using our pool of one, it would seem that intelligent life is likely to be rare. Forgive my terseness, but I see subjects repeated quite a lot here. It seems frustrating to keep going back to square one when some excellent members have already answered such questions, and in my opinion, have done a stirling job on the subject.

View PostJayMark, on 19 April 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

There is a diffrence between life and intelligent life. I have met various religious people for instance in my life that think that life is only confined to our planet. They had this very same argument as poster by Aus Der Box Skeptisch which is: "God would have told us if there was life other than our own. There is nothing in the Bible that would agree to other life...."

Again, sorry, but that seems quite a redundant question to me. If one thinks about it for a second, one can see that life has to arise and evolve, considering how close this planet has come to total extinction, it can only be that life whilst seemingly abundant (due to the building blocks for life prominent in space) it will have a hard time attaining intelligence, and that a period of evolution must precede such. Therefore, the majority of ife is unlikely to be intelligent. I feel our evolution has answered this quite definitively for us already.

View PostJayMark, on 19 April 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Many people here do expose their inner feelings. I see it everywhere in various forums and it is part of many discussions. I'm not forcing anyone to do so nor am I asking them to talk about very personal stuff.

I just cringe at seeing feeling involved. Looking at the Alpha-Draconian thread, we can see one member not happy that many members are asking the same questions of "where is the evidence" I feel asking personal opinions is only going to lead into that style of conflict. Too many people seem to have great difficulty with separating personal opinion and fact. It seems all that can be accomplished with that question is animosity.

View PostJayMark, on 19 April 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Well, that was my question. Seems like you are interpreting it wrong. I am simply asking for those who do not beleive in other intelligent lifeforms to tell me why. And I was asking about how they feel about it inside to avoid going into the "lack of scientific evidence" argument simply because it does not in any way prove that other intelligent lifeforms exist anyways. I just wanted personal opinions on the question. I don't think I'm asking people to expose their entire inner-self.

Aus Der Box Skeptisch is a good example. He said the bible says no, but then said that's not how he feels about it. 747400 is also another good example. He says he dosen't really because of lack of evidence but at the same time feels that it is probable.

But now since there dosen't seem to be any people here who personaly don't beleive in it, we shall then keep going with what is said and bring other points.

This is just the short cut that continuing another thread would have offered. You would have jumped straight to this point.


I think that is why you will find everyone is here to discuss the possibilities of ET Life. Even I think that it is not only probable, but one day likely, although I feel it is more likely to be communications than physical contact. I do not know of a single member to ever say "No, it is not probable". Many say, "there is no proof that such has happened to date" Personally on top of that I feel that the vastness of space is a hurdle that few are willing to actually look at, but dismiss far too simply with Sci Fi premises.
Perhaps what you will garner here is the depth of peoples probabilities?

View PostJayMark, on 19 April 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

I hope you get a better picture bro. I may have expressed myself in a not-so-clear way in the OP as well. No harm intended or taken.

Peace.

I think I have a better understanding of what you are trying to convey. I certainly perceive no animosity from you, it is I who have taken the terse tone, I hope now that you understand why. Good luck, and I hope you find the answers you are looking for. Thank you for being understanding and asking me directly about my grievances. I very much respect that. It is the mark of a good poster, I hope to see more from you considering this.

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#24    psyche101

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:40 AM

View PostThe Sky Scanner, on 19 April 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

I remember a similar discussion to this breaking out on ATS right back in the early days, when it was the old board. I do remember one person posting that he believed we were the most intelligent life in our galaxy, I don't know if he said the only intelligent life, but I remember him saying the most intelligent. Obviously that led to many people asking why he thought that, from memory his beliefs went as follows:

If you pictured time as all happening now, past present and future happening all together, that the Gods and mythology we wrote about in the past is just us in the future, and that the reason there is no tangible proof of any God existing is because it would be akin to questioning yourself on a subject you haven't yet learnt.....i'm guessing he wasn't implying we ascend to Gods in the future, simply that we didn't recognise ourselves in the future, when viewed from now or the past, hence attributing it to a higher power

Anyway, because of that, and because there has never been any proof forthcoming of an intelligent life out there, or God/s, which he believed would be undeniable on a global scale should it exist, then we must be the most intelligent at this current point in time, and it'll be us that are seen as God/s by upcoming life forms in tens and hundreds of centuries to come...

It was great thread from what I remember, plenty of ideas being thrown about....if I remember what user name I was using at the time, and assuming ATS archived all the old stuff before changing over, i'll pm you a link, cause it made for an interesting read if nothing else...


Now that is most certainly an interesting viewpoint, and considering it, Jaymark, I feel perhaps I stand corrected concerning peoples "feelings".

This is a conversation I would not mind reading. Quite an alternative viewpoint to say the least! It certainly makes a change from regurgitating the regular answers. If you have a link SS, I would be appreciative.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#25    Bildr

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 02:50 AM

Let's do a short math. Some scientist think that their is about 500 Billions galaxy in our universe. Most galaxy tend to have between 200 & 500 solar system. If we do a 'rude' calculus between those two can can sum up that ''possibly'' 100000000000000000000000 solar system exist in our entire universe. so if only 1% of all those solar system could contain one habitable planet for life, then we have about 1000000000000000000000 possible habitable planet.

Theirs nothing scientific in my calculus, but you get my point.

http://www.universet...n-the-universe/ -->

Quote

Our Earth feels like all there is, but we know that it’s just a tiny planet in a vast Solar System. And our Solar System is just one member of a vast Milky Way galaxy with 200 to 400 billion stars. But how many galaxies are there in the entire Universe?

This is a difficult number to know for certain, since we can only see a fraction of the Universe, even with our most powerful instruments. The most current estimates guess that there are 100 to 200 billion galaxies in the Universe, each of which has hundreds of billions of stars. A recent German supercomputer simulation put that number even higher: 500 billion. In other words, there could be a galaxy out there for every star in the Milky Way.


Edited by Bildr, 21 April 2012 - 02:51 AM.

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#26    2twists33

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 03:31 AM

View PostZaraKitty, on 20 April 2012 - 05:00 AM, said:

Comprehend the vastness of the universe, then explain why we're the only things out there >.>

Didnt you mean out here?

Drake's equation quickly punches your theory.


#27    orangepeaceful79

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 04:24 AM

View PostJayMark, on 18 April 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

So who here does not beleive that any other intelligent lifeforms could exist somewhere in the whole universe?

I'm mainly refer to at least two types of intelligent beings.

- Could be an animal-like entity (lower intelligence)

- Could be a humanoid-like entity (higher intelligence)

I am not talking about bacterias or plants etc. That will belong to another discussion.

So if you don't, I would like to know why. I do not wish to discuss the issu of "lack of scientific evidence" but rather what you think about it deeply inside. If the lack of scientific evidence is your only concern, well be it and discuss it if you please.

Just curious.

Peace.
I tend to be open to the idea that there is something else out there.  Humans simply can't be the smartest kids on the whole block.  

Having said that - its a psuedo-belief which I have never seen any credible evidence to support - none.  

All I have to go on is that humanity is perilously stupid, and the universe unimaginably large - there has to be something better out there.  
When I see ETs I will believe in them, but not until then.


#28    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 06:51 AM

View Post2twists33, on 21 April 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

Didnt you mean out here?

Drake's equation quickly punches your theory.
Drake's Equation is not actually fact, like the Theory of Relativity*, say; it's merely a hypothesis based entirely on probability.

* perhaps

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#29    DONTEATUS

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 07:19 PM

View Post747400, on 21 April 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

Drake's Equation is not actually fact, like the Theory of Relativity*, say; it's merely a hypothesis based entirely on probability.

* perhaps
IT is so true 747 I love it when I read the Facts are this !--- or That --- ! space is really big remember Drake Equation was made by a man,on earth, in a time of this understanding.
Now fast forward ten thousand years if you please. If were still around that is.
THere will be another Drake,and another Relativity in play for us. Who knows ? THere out there Man to coin a Wacky Texan ! There out there Man !
THat will never get old now ! But alas we all do and E.T better hurry up across the vastness of Deep space to meet & Greet us !
Other wise were going to all bee gone ! Sad but true.
So I say party like a Rock Star until the Cows get tipped ! And dont forget the Texas B.B.Q ! :tu:

This is a Work in Progress!

#30    badeskov

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:50 AM

View Post747400, on 21 April 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

Drake's Equation is not actually fact, like the Theory of Relativity*, say; it's merely a hypothesis based entirely on probability.

* perhaps

Just a tiny clarification here, if you so allow. The Theory of Relativity is a theory, whereas Drake's equation is a hypothesis.  The difference between the two is that the Theory of Relativity offers explanations and predictions for observable events from which we can measure it's validity, whereas Drake's equation has no observable metrics whatsoever to measure it's validity against.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited for clarification.

Edited by badeskov, 23 April 2012 - 04:52 AM.

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