Arpee, on 19 April 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:
If Jesus really loves us then no one should be in hell. If he loved us he wouldn't subject us to ETERNAL suffering. Even if we are evil, it is unjust that a TEMPORARY evil can turn into ETERNAL suffering.
Hell should not have been created if this is the case in this religion.
Well get READY for a surprize. I AGREE WITH YOU...... mostly. First of all hell is not eternal torment. Let me post something I wrote on another forum. Many Christians blindly believe what their pastors or priests have told them based on loose interpetations of scripture. Also the lack of common sence in reasoning all the scriptures together into a proper context. Now I'm not trying to post a Bible classroom on this, but this subject being taught incorrectly for so long has caused more unbelief and hate towards God and Jesus Christ than just about anything else.
Remember I wrote this below on another forum but I hope you will take the time to read it.
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Eternal torment in hell is the lie of the Catholic church and many other churches. The Greek word Sheole means place of death and it is where the word hell comes from. The lake of fire is not hell but rather a final judgement of God that occurs 1,000 years after the Antichrist. So hell and the lake of fire are two different places. The Lake of fire is the final judgment of God to all unbelievers who took the mark of the beast or worshiped the Antichrist. The final judgment of the lake of fire occurs after being in prison with Lucifer for 1,000 years, then those who did are cast into the Lake of Fire to be destroyed body, soul and spirit. Once destroyed in the lake of fire there is no more torment, your soul is deleted forever along with your spirit and everything you ever were. After that it will be as you never existed, even your thoughts and memories are forever destroyed. (deleted) If God did not do this, then all non believers would suffer eternally because in essence everyone has an eternal soul.
Things to consider:
Jesus said do not fear those that can kill the flesh but fear he that has the power to destroy your soul in hell. (Lake of fire) Jesus is saying that after the final judgments that non believing souls are destroyed, not tormented forever and ever. Jesus is saying that a soul can be destroyed, deleted and forever erased.
Soul is spirit, its realm cannot be destroyed except by the power of God Almighty, but if you reject Jesus Christ and take the mark of the beast there is still good reason to fear. The judgments of God in the flesh and then a soul prison for 1,000 years with Lucifer are terrible judgements. Just because it is only 1,000 years for most believe me when I tell you they are still judgments you never ever want to experience. There are no exceptions in scripture for taking the mark of the beast. God will forgive most sins, even forgive you for the same sins over and over again, but the buying and selling mark of the future Antichrist,or the worship of his image or the direct worship of the Antichrist is something God Almighty and Jesus Christ will never forgive.
The Lake of Fire is where justice is finished and Jesus puts them out of their misery, otherwise they would suffer eternally.
Jason said: Nope sorry it says
And the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name. Revelation 14:11
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My Response:
Listen carefully to what I say next.
Notice it says the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, it does not say they are tormented forever. Where it says no rest day or night this is about those who worship the beast or those who took his mark. However it cannot mean eternity because it says in scripture that after the new Jerusalem descends from heaven and the new heavens and earth are established that there is no more day or night as we understand it now. Read the scripture below.
Revelation 22:5
And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever
In verse Revelation 14:10 there is a reference that you did not include. Verse 10 says" And they will be tormented with fire and burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb. Notice the Holy Angels and the Lamb, is the lamb present forever and ever while the unbelievers are tormented forever? We know the Lamb is Jesus in this reference so does that mean Jesus never again sits on his throne because he is present forever and ever tormenting the non believers? Lets get real. Now finally why would you believe God who took flesh, limited himself in power and then suffered on a cross for everyone here because he loves us, that then he would cause anyone to be tortured for all eternity for a mere 70 years of sins or for rejecting him. Why would you believe such a thing, why would you want to serve a God like that?
The Jesus of eternal torment and hell is the same crap so many Christians teach because they never bothered to study the scriptures for themselves, but just believed any preacher who tells them this, also many of these same preachers are in many cases begging for money like God is broke. Now yes the scriptures can be confused on this subject if you don't look carefully, but the judgment of God is not eternal torment. It is temporary torment and punishment, then eternal separation without torment after non believers and those who took the mark of the beast are thrown in the Lake of fire.
The eternal separation is permanente deletion of the soul, after being cast in the Lake of fire the punishment for non believers end, along with their suffering. Their punishment was finished during the 1,000 year prison sentence, not to mention all they suffered before being put there after dying from taking taking the mark. Jesus Christ is not even going to torment the fallen angels forever, not even Lucifer. But rest assured anyone who serves the future Antichrist or takes his buying and selling mark will consider the Lake of Fire a blessing after the 1,000 year punishment in prison, not to mention what they suffered in the flesh for taking the mark.
One last thing about soul deletion in the Lake of fire.
Once again Jesus said: Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (Lake of fire)
This saying from Jesus means the eternal soul can be destroyed by God. It means God can delete the soul like we do a DOD 14 pass deletion of our hard drive.
My point is this: since Jesus has made it very clear that the eternal soul can be destroyed by God if he so decides, then why would he allow a soul of his enemies to be tormented forever in light of my previous post discussing this before this one. Justice is one thing but it does not have to be eternal and if the punishment was eternal where the person is kept alive for the only purpose of being tortured some more, then that punishment would not be just. Eternal torture for serious sins of maybe 80 years for a man or woman, 14,000 years for some fallen angels still would not be just. The real Jesus Christ is just and would never torment for all eternity.
Jesus taught his believers to judge not and to forgive even our enemies. So how is Jesus going to justify tormenting his enemies for all eternity after what he has taught me to do concerning forgiving my enemies? Especially when considering that Jesus himself said that God had the power to destroy what otherwise would be an eternal soul. In other words God who has the power to destroy a soul and spiritual suffering would have to decide not too do so. In other words God would have to decide to torture someone forever in spite of everything he taught about forgiving .
So now matter how you look at it God has the power to not torment a soul for eternity, he also has the foundation of telling me I should forgive my enemies. So how could God become the ultimate hypocrite by tormenting his enemies for eternity. If God did that then he would be breaking his command and example to me concerning forgiving his enemies. Once again Jesus said: Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (Lake of fire) This saying from Jesus means the eternal soul can be destroyed by God. It means God can delete the soul like we do a DOD 14 pass deletion of our hard drive.
My point is this: since Jesus has made it very clear that the eternal soul can be destroyed by God if he so decides then why would he allow a soul of his enemies to be tormented forever in light of my previous post discussing this before this one. Jesus said to judge not and to forgive even our enemies. So how is Jesus going to justify tormenting his enemies for eternity after what he has taught me to do concerning forgiving my enemies? Especially when considering that Jesus himself said that God had the power to destroy what otherwise would be an eternal soul. So now matter how you look at it God has the power to not torment a soul for eternity, he also has the foundation of telling me I should forgive my enemies. So how could God become the ultimate hypocrite by tormenting his enemies for all eternity. If God did that then he would be breaking his command and example to me concerning forgiving his enemies.
Now some forgiveness from God requires that you to ask for it and to acknowledge you need forgiveness from God. That is something the fallen angels have never done, as well as many people. The mark of the beast is one of those things God cannot forgive. That is why the warnings are so severe. So just because God will ultimately put out of their misery those who take the mark of the beast in the future, this does not mean it is OK. If you take the mark you will wish you had never been born until you are thrown in the Lake of Fire.
Do you have pity for toilet seat germs? Of course not. Yet toilet seat germs are a life form regardless of how disgusting they are they are. Do toilet seat germs deserve your mercy, your forgiveness and your patience? Same thing with God. God will forgive almost everything when you ask in the name of Jesus. He will forgive rape, murder, gang banging, stealing and amost everything else. But if you take the mark of the beast God will think higher of the toilet seat germs than of you.
God's punishment is not eternal, but it should be greatly feared. GREATLY FEARED. Never take the future buying and selling mark of the beast. If you take it you will regret it beyond the ability of words can describe.
Jesus really does love you, (not talking about organized Chrisitianity) but Jesus. However even Jesus who is full of forgiveness and mercy has a place he draws the line in the sand. That line is future buying and selling mark of the Antichrist or the worship of the Antichrist. This is a line you can never cross and then return to God. Never take the mark.
P.S By the way 666 tattoos, pentagrams, or Satan tattoos are the mark of the beast. None of those things mean anything to God. However if a world leader rises and says you must be implanted with a buying and selling chip or mark on your body then DO NOT DO IT.
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Edited by MysteryX, 19 April 2012 - 07:08 AM.