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#1    markdohle

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:04 PM

Openness
(Our beliefs are a way of seeing and being in the world)

There are times when the only way to arrive at a certain point in ones life is to simply believe and move forward in expectation.  Trust in others is one such example.  If a person believes that people are not trustworthy, then no one who is trustworthy will be found.  Trust in another is not just a one way street, it goes both ways.  If one does not except the fact the some people are solid and make good friends, then friendship cannot be returned to someone, who may want a friendship and who is fact trustworthy.  So life can be truncated while the one refusing to accept the reality of trustworthy people may have good, rational reasons…. they are however just too narrow and perhaps, though not always, based on fear of simply taking a chance.  

One who does not believe that love is possible, will in fact, live in a loveless world.  It is a self-fulfilling prophesy, a closed circle in fact which only strengthens a limiting fear based belief.  To believe that love is a reality, opens up for the believer many avenues of exploring the richness of life and the excitement of getting to know and love others.   How and what we believe is a way of seeing, of being in the world.        

To open up to the richness of reality is also a call not to fear pain and failure.  It is also a challenge not to allow those who can’t be open to a broader reality, to limit ones own life.  There are more people who are open to life, love and trust, than those who are not.  At least from my own experience….this last statement is based on my subjective experience only.

Cynicism is in fact an easy way out, easy to acquire harder and more courageous to let go of.  



Edited by markdohle, 19 April 2012 - 12:07 PM.


#2    Beany

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 02:03 PM

I agree, Mark, that cynicism is the easy way, because it requires one to do nothing. It's a form of self-victmization.


#3    Sherapy

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:27 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 19 April 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

Openness
(Our beliefs are a way of seeing and being in the world)

There are times when the only way to arrive at a certain point in ones life is to simply believe and move forward in expectation.  Trust in others is one such example.  If a person believes that people are not trustworthy, then no one who is trustworthy will be found.  Trust in another is not just a one way street, it goes both ways.  If one does not except the fact the some people are solid and make good friends, then friendship cannot be returned to someone, who may want a friendship and who is fact trustworthy.  So life can be truncated while the one refusing to accept the reality of trustworthy people may have good, rational reasons…. they are however just too narrow and perhaps, though not always, based on fear of simply taking a chance.  

One who does not believe that love is possible, will in fact, live in a loveless world.  It is a self-fulfilling prophesy, a closed circle in fact which only strengthens a limiting fear based belief.  To believe that love is a reality, opens up for the believer many avenues of exploring the richness of life and the excitement of getting to know and love others.   How and what we believe is a way of seeing, of being in the world.        

To open up to the richness of reality is also a call not to fear pain and failure.  It is also a challenge not to allow those who can't be open to a broader reality, to limit ones own life.  There are more people who are open to life, love and trust, than those who are not.  At least from my own experience….this last statement is based on my subjective experience only.

Cynicism is in fact an easy way out, easy to acquire harder and more courageous to let go of.  


Very fun topic!
I agree that being an extreme of anything  can  affect ones personal experiences,  but to have a bit of distrust would be considered healthy according to Erickson's Psychosocial Theory.
http://en.wikipedia....ial_development

I'd even go as far as to say that there would  be situations that  having a high level of mistrust,  would  be a wise choice. Such situations would be walking in late at night by myself. My level of trust  is at zero. On the  internet, I would not  extend the same level of trust -- due to the anonymity factor.

I tended towards way to social in my real life, which was a  detriment. As I have gotten older I have modified my social openness and for me it works better. I have literally eliminated a lot of the problems that once  came with being to social.  Now,  I take things situation by situation, by seeking a happy medium.

On matters of love, for me It just  happens and I was not open to it at all. I had just come out of a very miserable marriage at the time, but ironically the night of my separation, I met the love of my life-- we have been crazy in love for 16 years.

Of course this is anecdotal, yet I do beleive that love comes whether you are open  to it or not..So perhaps the golden yummy of the OP is that our beliefs do weigh in. so  set  them up  in  ways that are functional.

Edited by Sherapy, 20 April 2012 - 07:27 PM.


#4    markdohle

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:35 PM

View PostSherapy, on 20 April 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Very fun topic!
I agree that being an extreme of anything  can  affect ones personal experiences,  but to have a bit of distrust would be considered healthy according to Erickson's Psychosocial Theory.
http://en.wikipedia....ial_development

I'd even go as far as to say that there would  be situations that  having a high level of mistrust,  would  be a wise choice. Such situations would be walking in late at night by myself. My level of trust  is at zero. On the  internet, I would not  extend the same level of trust -- due to the anonymity factor.

I tended towards way to social in my real life, which was a  detriment. As I have gotten older I have modified my social openness and for me it works better. I have literally eliminated a lot of the problems that once  came with being to social.  Now,  I take things situation by situation, by seeking a happy medium.

On matters of love, for me It just  happens and I was not open to it at all. I had just come out of a very miserable marriage at the time, but ironically the night of my separation, I met the love of my life-- we have been crazy in love for 16 years.

Of course this is anecdotal, yet I do beleive that love comes whether you are open  to it or not..So perhaps the golden yummy of the OP is that our beliefs do weigh in. so  set  them up  in  ways that are functional.


Thank you, good comments.  Of course we have to be careful, but still trust can be diffiuclt if one has been hurt in the past.

peace
mark

View PostBeany, on 20 April 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

I agree, Mark, that cynicism is the easy way, because it requires one to do nothing. It's a form of self-victmization.

As usual a deep and thoughtful response.  Your last sentence spoke to me strongly.

peace
mark


#5    Beany

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:00 AM

Trust is an important issue for many people, for some it's the primary issue. In thinking about myself in relation to the topic, I realize I trust Spirit to keep me safe & guide me away from those that are untrusthworthy. I also use my common sense, of course, but sometimes I get that creeped out feeling about someone and start slowly backing away. It's been my experience that untrustworthy people usually show up in a very short time for who they are, but those around them are slow to identify or recognize the behavior they are seeming, or engage in justifying or excusing the behavior, and then act surprised that the person hurt them. Keep a clear head, hold people responsible, and don't expect others to change. Either love them for who they are or let them go.


#6    Sherapy

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 04:29 AM

View PostBeany, on 21 April 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

Trust is an important issue for many people, for some it's the primary issue. In thinking about myself in relation to the topic, I realize I trust Spirit to keep me safe & guide me away from those that are untrusthworthy. I also use my common sense, of course, but sometimes I get that creeped out feeling about someone and start slowly backing away. It's been my experience that untrustworthy people usually show up in a very short time for who they are, but those around them are slow to identify or recognize the behavior they are seeming, or engage in justifying or excusing the behavior, and then act surprised that the person hurt them. Keep a clear head, hold people responsible, and don't expect others to change. Either love them for who they are or let them go.


Gosh, I love this! :tu:
For me, in the situations I am open to, I pay attention, look for those red flags.or aspects that I may have questions with and go from there. The only question I can ever really ask myself is can I accept this or not , if I can 'cool'-- I move forward, if not I move on in peace..


Then there is the trust one has with hubby, kids or close confidants.For me, this is the  trust that has been nurtured and cultivated over time, earned if you will, by being the person one says they are, because their  behavior and treatment of you shows them to be trustworthy.  
For me, having standards on trust is a good idea it can minimize being heart broken and disappointed..Yet, realistically  there are just those times that no matter how right one does everything they get hurt.. For me, I learn from it,  I find the value in it, go from there. Then  I start  over a little bit wiser the next time.


#7    markdohle

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:49 PM

View PostBeany, on 21 April 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

Trust is an important issue for many people, for some it's the primary issue. In thinking about myself in relation to the topic, I realize I trust Spirit to keep me safe & guide me away from those that are untrusthworthy. I also use my common sense, of course, but sometimes I get that creeped out feeling about someone and start slowly backing away. It's been my experience that untrustworthy people usually show up in a very short time for who they are, but those around them are slow to identify or recognize the behavior they are seeming, or engage in justifying or excusing the behavior, and then act surprised that the person hurt them. Keep a clear head, hold people responsible, and don't expect others to change. Either love them for who they are or let them go.

:clap:  :tsu:  :nw:  :clap:  :tsu:


#8    markdohle

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:52 PM

View PostSherapy, on 21 April 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

Gosh, I love this! :tu:
For me, in the situations I am open to, I pay attention, look for those red flags.or aspects that I may have questions with and go from there. The only question I can ever really ask myself is can I accept this or not , if I can 'cool'-- I move forward, if not I move on in peace..


Then there is the trust one has with hubby, kids or close confidants.For me, this is the  trust that has been nurtured and cultivated over time, earned if you will, by being the person one says they are, because their  behavior and treatment of you shows them to be trustworthy.  
For me, having standards on trust is a good idea it can minimize being heart broken and disappointed..Yet, realistically  there are just those times that no matter how right one does everything they get hurt.. For me, I learn from it,  I find the value in it, go from there. Then  I start  over a little bit wiser the next time.

Very good.  I think when we are hurt, and it is someone we have a good relationship with, we can forgive and talk it out or move on.  There are those that can't return friendship, so yes, accept them, be kind, but also boundaries are still needed.  The problem is when being hurt can shut out all trust, which is hard to overcome, I speak from experience.  I write from my struggles, not from being sucessful.

peace
mark


#9    Beany

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:27 PM

Often our beliefs get in the way of us seeing the world for what it really is. I would say if one is unhappy, then a review of one's belief system is called for to determine what it is that is causing the unhappiness. Happiness is an internal state, and is generally not reliant on external factors. We create our lives every moment; it behooves us to consciously decide what we want to create and make our actions & words congruent with that.


#10    markdohle

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 12:19 PM

View PostBeany, on 21 April 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

Often our beliefs get in the way of us seeing the world for what it really is. I would say if one is unhappy, then a review of one's belief system is called for to determine what it is that is causing the unhappiness. Happiness is an internal state, and is generally not reliant on external factors. We create our lives every moment; it behooves us to consciously decide what we want to create and make our actions & words congruent with that.

We when we come to the understanding that we can consciously decide, it can lead to someting better, though it can be a uphill battle for many, it is for me at times.

peace
mark


#11    Beany

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:01 PM

One does not always need deep understanding to make conscious choices, sometimes one simply needs to choose. And sometimes one needs to act "as if." I speak from experience, Mark. I spent years studying, attending workshops, listening to recordings, etc. Then I realized that all of that was an avoidance tactic that allowed me to put off the actual doing, of putting into practice the things I learned, because I guess I just didn't feel like I could live up to the challenge. And it was a challenge. Not so much anymore, because I've spent years being a practicioner. The more I practice, the better I get at it. But initially I wasn't certain I could make the changes necessary to live my ideals. After all, it's so much easier to talk about something than to actually do it. But without the doing, there is no real change.


#12    markdohle

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:57 PM

View PostBeany, on 22 April 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

One does not always need deep understanding to make conscious choices, sometimes one simply needs to choose. And sometimes one needs to act "as if." I speak from experience, Mark. I spent years studying, attending workshops, listening to recordings, etc. Then I realized that all of that was an avoidance tactic that allowed me to put off the actual doing, of putting into practice the things I learned, because I guess I just didn't feel like I could live up to the challenge. And it was a challenge. Not so much anymore, because I've spent years being a practicioner. The more I practice, the better I get at it. But initially I wasn't certain I could make the changes necessary to live my ideals. After all, it's so much easier to talk about something than to actually do it. But without the doing, there is no real change.

No disagreement here my friend, yes talking is easy ;-)...just do it.  Sometimes when I don't feel strong enough, I play a game with myself.....I pretend.....I am loving, forgiving paitent etc.  It seems to bridge the gap. Emotional states are passing.   Also I pray a lot.  Keeps me rooted in what I feel life is all about.

Peace
Mark


#13    Beany

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:45 AM

View Postmarkdohle, on 22 April 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

No disagreement here my friend, yes talking is easy ;-)...just do it.  Sometimes when I don't feel strong enough, I play a game with myself.....I pretend.....I am loving, forgiving paitent etc.  It seems to bridge the gap. Emotional states are passing.   Also I pray a lot.  Keeps me rooted in what I feel life is all about.

Peace
Mark
Mark, pretending or acting "as if" are often effective strategies for bringing about change. You know, fake it til you make it. Often the very act of doing changes our perspective quicker than weeks of study; it's a kinesthetic way of learning that works well for a lot of people. It's learn by doing, and when it's employed it eliminates a lot of the mental agony & indecision & confusion.


#14    jugoso

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:52 AM

View PostBeany, on 23 April 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

Mark, pretending or acting "as if" are often effective strategies for bringing about change. You know, fake it til you make it. Often the very act of doing changes our perspective quicker than weeks of study; it's a kinesthetic way of learning that works well for a lot of people. It's learn by doing, and when it's employed it eliminates a lot of the mental agony & indecision & confusion.
I whole-heartedly agree with you on this one beanie. Wha´s that expression....talk is cheap. I think the other thing about talking is you feel you are actuallt doing when in fact, you´re just being a slacker!!

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Free your mind and you ass will follow.
The kingdom of heaven is within"
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#15    Sherapy

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:24 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 21 April 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

Very good.  I think when we are hurt, and it is someone we have a good relationship with, we can forgive and talk it out or move on.  There are those that can't return friendship, so yes, accept them, be kind, but also boundaries are still needed.  The problem is when being hurt can shut out all trust, which is hard to overcome, I speak from experience.  I write from my struggles, not from being sucessful.

peace
mark

Mark, I am partial to a psychological approach, and the one that comes to mind is the stages of grieving for your case. I have had experiences in my life that have dropped me to my knees and getting back up was easier said then done.  

In other words,  the healing process  involved  honoring the  process as it unfolded. After my best friend committed suicide I had major trust issues with myself and for me no amount of telling myself to get over it worked/helped.  I stayed in the stage of not trusting as long as I needed too and in doing so I came to understand that no emotional  state lasts forever(often we get in our own way)  if we just honor the process it passes. For me, I have completely redefined many things-- personally , my approach to friendship, my approach to trust, and most importantly where I fell short before.This is where  I found I had control, not in what  was lost, but in what I could do next time. based on what I learned from the journey.  It's okay to be sad , to cry your tears, it's the bodies way of healing. There may just be things that  we never get over, we just find a way to go on, and it has to be okay . Yet, you still can nurture yourself, comfort yourself, learn  while allowing yourself  the room to heal. It sounds to me as if you think  you need to be at a place you are just not at yet. I'd say allow  yourself the  time to heal, at your own pace.

Edited by Sherapy, 23 April 2012 - 07:27 PM.





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