31 replies to this topic

[itsnotoutthere]

[and then]

itsnotoutthere, on 27 April 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

OMG!!!!  This guy is PRICELESS    I wonder how he REALLY feels about the UN?     

[itsnotoutthere]

and then, on 27 April 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

OMG!!!!  This guy is PRICELESS    I wonder how he REALLY feels about the UN?     

Pat Condell, look him up. He's tells it like it is & no b*llsh*t.

[Black Red Devil]

BlackRedLittleDevil, on 29 April 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

Although 4 years old, this video explains some of the "tactics" used by the Zionist Govt of Israel (against the will of many normal Israeli's) in their endeavour to eradicate Palestinians from their land and how people in the West are tricked into believing the Israeli's are the victims in this whole shamozzle.

seller2006, on 19 April 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

i am sick and tired of reading pro zionist and Israeli propaganda.

Although 4 years old, this video explains some of the "tactics" used by the Zionist Govt of Israel (against the will of many normal Israeli's may I add) in their endeavour to eradicate Palestinians from their land and how people in the West are tricked into believing the Israeli's are the victims in this whole shamozzle.

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil, 29 April 2012 - 01:53 AM.

[and then]

Thanks for those.  Ibish and Fisk are always good for a chuckle.  The reality of the situation is that Israel gained access to those lands after being attacked repeatedly by their neighbors.  They stay in Judea and Samaria because the land has great historical significance for them.  Israeli governments have made offers to give up land for just a promise of peace and are rejected.  In the case of Sharon and Gaza, the IDF had no sooner forcibly evicted Jewish settlers than rockets and mortars began to fall.  The hatred between Jew and Arab will lead us all into a great war and their is nothing we can do to stop it.  The "Palestinians" will never regain the land they lost and the nations bordering Israel will all be defeated in the attempt to destroy her. Read Psalm 83.  It WILL happen.  It looks to be about to happen in the coming months or few years.
The truth is that the "Palestinians" could have peace and prosperity if they gave up the hatred.  But the hatred is all they have and no one likes to admit they've been wrong.  The truth, for anyone actually interested in such an archaic thing, is that when the "Palestinians" speak of occupation they are speaking of every square inch of the land of Israel.
The real question to ask yourself is why does it or should it, matter to anyone who doesn't live there or have family there?  And why is there verse after verse in the Bible, written a couple thousand years ago, outlining the actions and motivations of modern nations in the region?  People blow it off as coincidence or less.  But if the next middle eastern war actually involves all the nations sharing a physical border with Israel ( 5 nations) and they are ALL defeated by Israel then I think a few eyes will finally be opened.  The willfully stupid will just perish like all the other fools down through the ages....so be it.

[Black Red Devil]

Well there you have it.  Now its all clear.  The simple answer to the occupation and atrocities is because It's in the Scriptures therefore it's God's will.
The Promised Land or Land of Israel (Genesis 15:18-21) includes Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and parts of Iraq.  I suppose it's just a matter of time before Israel defeats all it's enemies and conquers what it Rightly deserves.  I'm sure you'll be happily contributing to their success through your financial donations via the means of taxes.

A person avoids posting in the Religious threads because of all the infantile and surreal claptrap that makes Gulliver's Travels sound more realistic and now we have the same rammed down our throats in the political section.  Wow, you just can't escape these fanatical religious fundamentalists.

Also, it's funny how you can chuckle at the opinions of political experts but find delight from the opinion of a xenophobic english redneck who spawns hatred from every pore for anything non english (he probably barely supports scots and welsh just because they live on the same island).

Anyway, I'll answer one of your few poiltical points by throwing you back a question:

The truth is that the "Palestinians" could have peace and prosperity if they gave up the hatred.  How are they supposed to have peace and prosperity under occupation?

[and then]

BlackRedLittleDevil, on 29 April 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

Well there you have it.  Now its all clear.  The simple answer to the occupation and atrocities is because It's in the Scriptures therefore it's God's will.
The Promised Land or Land of Israel (Genesis 15:18-21) includes Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and parts of Iraq.  I suppose it's just a matter of time before Israel defeats all it's enemies and conquers what it Rightly deserves.  I'm sure you'll be happily contributing to their success through your financial donations via the means of taxes.

A person avoids posting in the Religious threads because of all the infantile and surreal claptrap that makes Gulliver's Travels sound more realistic and now we have the same rammed down our throats in the political section.  Wow, you just can't escape these fanatical religious fundamentalists.

Also, it's funny how you can chuckle at the opinions of political experts but find delight from the opinion of a xenophobic english redneck who spawns hatred from every pore for anything non english (he probably barely supports scots and welsh just because they live on the same island).

Anyway, I'll answer one of your few poiltical points by throwing you back a question:

The truth is that the "Palestinians" could have peace and prosperity if they gave up the hatred.  How are they supposed to have peace and prosperity under occupation?

As always BRLD you are too kind to me, thank you.  I believe in all seriousness that if the Arab stepchildren truly wanted to live as neighbors in the West Bank and in Gaza that they could prove it by ceasing all hostilities.  This has always been the crux of the matter for both they and the Israelis, hasn't it?  If the Palis were to cease fire completely and ask for an equivalent amount as the Israelis receive of (non-military) aid from the West to repair the ravages of wars and build an economy, the Western governments would GLADLY hand over the cash, make loan guarantees, aids in kind etc.  Gaza could be polished into a jewel that would rival Havana and Beirut in their glory days.  The Israelis would be FORCED into finally giving up Samaria and Judea almost completely but they would be rid of the constant grief and shellfire from their neighbors and could go about building their own prosperity. How is this a bad plan?  Gaza and most of the WB under complete autonomy with the exception ofsome restrictions of airspace.  But it would be rejected out of hand as an offer because the "Palestinians" consider every square inch of the land of Israel to be "OCCUPIED" territory.  You see, BRLD, they want ALL THE LAND.  Not some or most but ALL.  And because they are all or nothing they'll get....nothing.
BTW, this section is about news of the middle East.  If you know how to separate what's happening there from it's religious underpinnings then you may have stumbled upon an answer the world has been seeking for quite a while.  Until then I will continue to post things which are topical even if they harm your fragile psyche.

[Black Red Devil]

and then, on 29 April 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

I believe in all seriousness that if the Arab stepchildren truly wanted to live as neighbors in the West Bank and in Gaza that they could prove it by ceasing all hostilities.  This has always been the crux of the matter for both they and the Israelis, hasn't it?

Well, you're slightly off target with your assumption. The crux of the problem is that Israel hasn't stopped building settlements on occupied territories. This has been an integral condition of every peace process since Camp David when Jimmy Carter was President and before you go on replying that it's because the "Palis" keep on launching rockets, hear what the man himself had to say about it when he published his book a few ago.

and then, on 29 April 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

If the Palis were to cease fire completely and ask for an equivalent amount as the Israelis receive of (non-military) aid from the West to repair the ravages of wars and build an economy, the Western governments would GLADLY hand over the cash, make loan guarantees, aids in kind etc.  Gaza could be polished into a jewel that would rival Havana and Beirut in their glory days.  The Israelis would be FORCED into finally giving up Samaria and Judea almost completely but they would be rid of the constant grief and shellfire from their neighbors and could go about building their own prosperity. How is this a bad plan?

The Palis aren't allowed to build an economy because of the blockade and the wall around the WB (built on occupied territories) which limits their growth.  If you would have read some of the Human Rights links people have been posting, you would realise it's not all glamour like the pro Israeli media would like you to think.  Then again, if you're inclined to disregard all views that don't suit your personal agenda, whether these are motivated by religious beliefs, related to your hereditary background or simply out of pure hatred, then it's pointless and a waste of time because you'll never be objective about it.

and then, on 29 April 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

Gaza and most of the WB under complete autonomy with the exception ofsome restrictions of airspace. But it would be rejected out of hand as an offer because the "Palestinians" consider every square inch of the land of Israel to be "OCCUPIED" territory.  You see, BRLD, they want ALL THE LAND.  Not some or most but ALL.  And because they are all or nothing they'll get....nothing.

But, isn't this what you're claiming the Israeli agenda is because it's written in the Scriptures?

and then, on 29 April 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

BTW, this section is about news of the middle East.  If you know how to separate what's happening there from it's religious underpinnings then you may have stumbled upon an answer the world has been seeking for quite a while.  Until then I will continue to post things which are topical even if they harm your fragile psyche.

I don't have the answer but it sounds like you do.  LOL and then, you believe in some story written by singers and musicians 2600 years.
Anyhow, by all means go ahead, who am I to get in the way of progress, truth and eternal knowledge.

[and then]

BlackRedLittleDevil, on 30 April 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

Well, you're slightly off target with your assumption. The crux of the problem is that Israel hasn't stopped building settlements on occupied territories. This has been an integral condition of every peace process since Camp David when Jimmy Carter was President and before you go on replying that it's because the "Palis" keep on launching rockets, hear what the man himself had to say about it when he published his book a few ago.





The Palis aren't allowed to build an economy because of the blockade and the wall around the WB (built on occupied territories) which limits their growth.  If you would have read some of the Human Rights links people have been posting, you would realise it's not all glamour like the pro Israeli media would like you to think.  Then again, if you're inclined to disregard all views that don't suit your personal agenda, whether these are motivated by religious beliefs, related to your hereditary background or simply out of pure hatred, then it's pointless and a waste of time because you'll never be objective about it.



But, isn't this what you're claiming the Israeli agenda is because it's written in the Scriptures?



I don't have the answer but it sounds like you do.  LOL and then, you believe in some story written by singers and musicians 2600 years.
Anyhow, by all means go ahead, who am I to get in the way of progress, truth and eternal knowledge.

The sarcasm is trite and boring.  I actually DO read/listen to the material that is posted in discussions because I have a genuine desire to see how people can be so deluded and in the bag for the Palestinians.  You still have not addressed my primary concern.  You cannot refute my point that the Palestinians desire all the land that Israel sits on and will accept nothing less.  All the talk of apartheid and borders is just smoke and mirrors until that issue is addressed.  Fences and walls were erected to stop bombings and sniper fire.  I've not been asleep over the past decade and can remember the atrocities of the second intifada.  
Enough Israelis are desperate for peace that the settlements would be dismantled in the WB within a month if there was a real chance the rocket fire would cease and no new bombings would take place.  Dismantling those outposts would probably cost Israeli lives and might push things nearly to civil war but Israel IS a democracy and a strong one and in the end would do the right thing...IF there were a real chance for peace.  Eventually I think the international community will force Israel into giving up yet more land and when the Palestinian assaults begin from their new acquisitions, what will be the new excuse?
You make jest at my belief system and maybe even find it abhorrent  but I really believe you will see the predictions I have related from scripture will come to be.  What you do with that evidence is up to you.  
You make me out to be some kind of irrational zealot but I'll stand on what I've said and the community can choose who is being fair minded in the discussion.

For there to be peace between any two warring parties either one must obliterate the other completely or the two must come to some accommodation where each receive part of what they want.  The "Palestinians" of Gaza elected the Hamas to lead them.  Read the Hamas charter and you will have your answer.  The 3rd intifada awaits....

[Black Red Devil]

and then, on 30 April 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

The sarcasm is trite and boring.  I actually DO read/listen to the material that is posted in discussions because I have a genuine desire to see how people can be so deluded and in the bag for the Palestinians.

Well, this is tough.  I suppose I may have to toss the coin on this one to decide whether I should consider myself to be delusional because I believe in the reports from independent Human Rights Groups from around the world, World Leaders, UNHRC Reports and the general international community or consider myself NOT delusional and believe in the words of someone who believes in the story of minstrels (more like goat herders considering the time and age) strumming their harps while predicting the future of humanity 2600 years later.

and then, on 30 April 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

You still have not addressed my primary concern.  You cannot refute my point that the Palestinians desire all the land that Israel sits on and will accept nothing less.

Your point is futile because the peace process does not involve Hamas. The PLA acknowledged Israel's existence. Fatah is a faction of the PLA.  So where does your point go from here?

and then, on 30 April 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

All the talk of apartheid and borders is just smoke and mirrors until that issue is addressed.  Fences and walls were erected to stop bombings and sniper fire.  I've not been asleep over the past decade and can remember the atrocities of the second intifada.

The second Infitada broke out, why? Lets hear your objective views.   

and then, on 30 April 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

Enough Israelis are desperate for peace that the settlements would be dismantled in the WB within a month if there was a real chance the rocket fire would cease and no new bombings would take place. Dismantling those outposts would probably cost Israeli lives and might push things nearly to civil war but Israel IS a democracy and a strong one and in the end would do the right thing...IF there were a real chance for peace.

Really!!?  So why is the Israeli Govt trying to legalise these outposts?  Here you go, fresh off the press,

http://channel6newso...-the-west-bank/

and then, on 30 April 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

Eventually I think the international community will force Israel into giving up yet more land and when the Palestinian assaults begin from their new acquisitions, what will be the new excuse?

Give up what land?

and then, on 30 April 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

You make jest at my belief system and maybe even find it abhorrent  but I really believe you will see the predictions I have related from scripture will come to be.  What you do with that evidence is up to you.  
You make me out to be some kind of irrational zealot but I'll stand on what I've said and the community can choose who is being fair minded in the discussion.

The end is nigh. As I said, you want to talk politics, lets do so.  You want to talk religious hocus pocus well, sorry buddy.............

and then, on 30 April 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

For there to be peace between any two warring parties either one must obliterate the other completely or the two must come to some accommodation where each receive part of what they want.  The "Palestinians" of Gaza elected the Hamas to lead them.  Read the Hamas charter and you will have your answer.  The 3rd intifada awaits....

The bolded part is what the Road Map for Peace is all about.  But, I'll repeat it for the umpteenth time, Hamas is not involved in the Peace talks so your point is again futile.  If the Israeli Govt was ever interested in progressing the Road Map they would have stopped the settlements years ago.  But they never have!  Why is that?

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil, 30 April 2012 - 10:32 AM.

[and then]

If Hamas is not involved then how can there ever be peace?  Does Israel shake hands with some of the terror mongers and lay down their weapons so that the others can destroy them?   Why won't you answer the question?   Hamas is a political entity that was chosen democratically by the majority of the Arab stepchildren in Gaza.  The entity has as part of it''s charter that Israel must be destroyed.  If the State of Israel makes peace with every other Arab nation and even Hezbollah there will still be no peace because of a murderous renegade group with arms and intent.  Dancing around the issue is very transparent.  It's the same as admitting that you believe Israel has no legitimate right to exist and you don't care if they were destroyed.  Can you say that's not true?  That you want Israel to have all the land given to them in the mandate as well as defensible borders as part of a fair peace?  Because if you can't say that then you have to accept the futility of the situation.  Anyone who really believes that Israel will just someday give up their home and emigrate to Europe and the US is a bigger believer in fairytales than the worst religious fanatic.  They would turn the surrounding nations into ash before they let themselves be destroyed.

[Black Red Devil]

and then, on 30 April 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

If Hamas is not involved then how can there ever be peace?  Does Israel shake hands with some of the terror mongers and lay down their weapons so that the others can destroy them?   Why won't you answer the question?   Hamas is a political entity that was chosen democratically by the majority of the Arab stepchildren in Gaza.  The entity has as part of it''s charter that Israel must be destroyed.  If the State of Israel makes peace with every other Arab nation and even Hezbollah there will still be no peace because of a murderous renegade group with arms and intent.  Dancing around the issue is very transparent.  It's the same as admitting that you believe Israel has no legitimate right to exist and you don't care if they were destroyed.  Can you say that's not true?  That you want Israel to have all the land given to them in the mandate as well as defensible borders as part of a fair peace?  Because if you can't say that then you have to accept the futility of the situation.  Anyone who really believes that Israel will just someday give up their home and emigrate to Europe and the US is a bigger believer in fairytales than the worst religious fanatic.  They would turn the surrounding nations into ash before they let themselves be destroyed.

Just by constantly replying doesn't mean you're making in roads into a debate.  Specially when you're not answering specific questions and you're throwing back assumptions and baseless accusations.

Does Israel shake hands with some of the terror mongers and lay down their weapons so that the others can destroy them?   Why won't you answer the question?  Is a baseless statement and accusation that has no logic in the current scenario and seems to indicate you don't know what you're on about or more likely, are confused.  It's probably both, with the addition of being totally biased and oblivious to any objectivity.  Don't even know why I'm wasting my time but I'll try one last time.

There is a peace process.  It involves a Diplomatic Quartet (Delegates from the EU, UN, US & Russia), Palestinians (PA) & Israel. The objective is to reach an agreement and progress a two state solution,  Hamas is not involved in any discussions, but, there has been suggestions they may be included in peace talks one day.
Now, whether Hamas joins this party in future or not, is irrelevant and the peace process will continue eventually IMHO.  By not being part of the peace process, Hamas would become in-influential to the point they would loose all credibility first and foremost towards the same people that elected them.  Eventual scenario, reaction to an action, they most likely would not accept a back seat role and may resort to violence.  If this occurred, it's easy to predict that they would most likely get squashed into submission by the coalition of the two State members, their own Palestinian brethren (who would be forced into a situation of assisting Israel into taking action against Hamas) and Israel themselves. Ultimately, and if necessary (but I doubt it), forces from the quartet would have an invested interest that NOTHING gets in the way of PEACE and may be called upon to get involved.  Basically, Hamas would have absolutely nowhere to hide.

The reason peace talks have broken down over time is because Israel, despite international uproar, keeps on building on these illegal settlements and, if you bothered opening up the link I posted in my previous post, they're now trying to consolidate the illegal land they occupy.  This is undeniable proof that the reason there is no peace in the Middle East is not because of the Palestinians but because of the Right Wing Govt of Isreal headed by Mr Netanyahu who has obviously different agendas on his mind other than PEACE.

Your warmongering Zionistic ideals seem to fog up your objective views and I've got no idea what you're talking about with "Anyone who really believes that Israel will just someday give up their home and emigrate to Europe and the US is a bigger believer in fairytales than the worst religious fanatic".

In the end, your beliefs that Israel will be granted the Promised Land because it's mentioned in the "Holy Scriptures" by someone thousands of years ago and my opinions, mean absolutely zilch in the grand scheme of things.  But boy are you waaaaay off target!

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil, 01 May 2012 - 04:46 AM.

[and then]

BlackRedLittleDevil, on 01 May 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

Just by constantly replying doesn't mean you're making in roads into a debate.  Specially when you're not answering specific questions and you're throwing back assumptions and baseless accusations.

Does Israel shake hands with some of the terror mongers and lay down their weapons so that the others can destroy them?   Why won't you answer the question?  Is a baseless statement and accusation that has no logic in the current scenario and seems to indicate you don't know what you're on about or more likely, are confused.  It's probably both, with the addition of being totally biased and oblivious to any objectivity.  Don't even know why I'm wasting my time but I'll try one last time.

There is a peace process.  It involves a Diplomatic Quartet (Delegates from the EU, UN, US & Russia), Palestinians (PA) & Israel. The objective is to reach an agreement and progress a two state solution,  Hamas is not involved in any discussions, but, there has been suggestions they may be included in peace talks one day.
Now, whether Hamas joins this party in future or not, is irrelevant and the peace process will continue eventually IMHO.  By not being part of the peace process, Hamas would become in-influential to the point they would loose all credibility first and foremost towards the same people that elected them.  Eventual scenario, reaction to an action, they most likely would not accept a back seat role and may resort to violence.  If this occurred, it's easy to predict that they would most likely get squashed into submission by the coalition of the two State members, their own Palestinian brethren (who would be forced into a situation of assisting Israel into taking action against Hamas) and Israel themselves. Ultimately, and if necessary (but I doubt it), forces from the quartet would have an invested interest that NOTHING gets in the way of PEACE and may be called upon to get involved.  Basically, Hamas would have absolutely nowhere to hide.

The reason peace talks have broken down over time is because Israel, despite international uproar, keeps on building on these illegal settlements and, if you bothered opening up the link I posted in my previous post, they're now trying to consolidate the illegal land they occupy.  This is undeniable proof that the reason there is no peace in the Middle East is not because of the Palestinians but because of the Right Wing Govt of Isreal headed by Mr Netanyahu who has obviously different agendas on his mind other than PEACE.

Your warmongering Zionistic ideals seem to fog up your objective views and I've got no idea what you're talking about with "Anyone who really believes that Israel will just someday give up their home and emigrate to Europe and the US is a bigger believer in fairytales than the worst religious fanatic".

In the end, your beliefs that Israel will be granted the Promised Land because it's mentioned in the "Holy Scriptures" by someone thousands of years ago and my opinions, mean absolutely zilch in the grand scheme of things.  But boy are you waaaaay off target!

I've certainly been way off target before.  Obviously you have a great deal more confidence in a peace plan than I.  Because of my religious leanings and my peculiar interest in the region I have had an interest in what goes on there for a long time.  Since about October of '73.  In that time I've seen peace made a couple of times due to the US buying it from Egypt and Jordan but when it comes to the Arab stepchildren - never.  They have been convinced through the rhetoric of the Arab nations at large that this land is theirs and that one day they will have it ALL.  As  a bonus they have become  dependent for a couple of generations on welfare from the UN.  I realize that they had to have help but that kind of situation gets into the psyche after a while.  The point is that time and time again I've seen US administrations attempt to coddle, cajole and even force the two parties to the table and ..... nothing comes of it.  This is an instance where one of two implacable foes is going to have to be destroyed out of the land.  Peace is only possible when you have two parties interested in it.  Israel is struggling internally with the consolidation of the settlements and I admit that land grabs are happening.  But when Oby first came to power he forced a 10 month moratorium on construction just so the two sides could talk.  Abbas refused to talk and added more preconditions.  I doubt that you will find another individual at UM who stays more up to date on the twists and turns of events in the Mid East than I do.  But I also have a long view that I see being born out daily and down the last 4 decades that shows me where it's all headed.  Throwing your little jabs about my faith must get boring after awhile but I don't mind so much.  You, like a couple others I've discussed this with here at UM have proven to me that even in the face of some damned MIRACLE of fulfillment you'd still never allow your ego to admit you might have been wrong, even for an instant.  It's a great way to go through life with self assurance.  I do the same thing, except my assurance is in the Creator.  
Bottom line is that I am and always will be in the tank for Israel and frankly will be happy to see them in possession of all the land in my life time.  The people you continually hold up s paragons of virtuous suffering are just thugs who kill.  Jews, Christians, each other, their wives, children..... so be proud that you chose the right side to be so puffed up and indignant for.  We are , after all, known by the company we keep.

[Black Red Devil]

and then, on 01 May 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

I've certainly been way off target before.  Obviously you have a great deal more confidence in a peace plan than I.  Because of my religious leanings and my peculiar interest in the region I have had an interest in what goes on there for a long time.  Since about October of '73.  In that time I've seen peace made a couple of times due to the US buying it from Egypt and Jordan but when it comes to the Arab stepchildren - never.  They have been convinced through the rhetoric of the Arab nations at large that this land is theirs and that one day they will have it ALL.  As  a bonus they have become  dependent for a couple of generations on welfare from the UN.  I realize that they had to have help but that kind of situation gets into the psyche after a while.  The point is that time and time again I've seen US administrations attempt to coddle, cajole and even force the two parties to the table and ..... nothing comes of it.  This is an instance where one of two implacable foes is going to have to be destroyed out of the land.  Peace is only possible when you have two parties interested in it.  Israel is struggling internally with the consolidation of the settlements and I admit that land grabs are happening.  But when Oby first came to power he forced a 10 month moratorium on construction just so the two sides could talk.  Abbas refused to talk and added more preconditions.  I doubt that you will find another individual at UM who stays more up to date on the twists and turns of events in the Mid East than I do.  But I also have a long view that I see being born out daily and down the last 4 decades that shows me where it's all headed.  Throwing your little jabs about my faith must get boring after awhile but I don't mind so much.  You, like a couple others I've discussed this with here at UM have proven to me that even in the face of some damned MIRACLE of fulfillment you'd still never allow your ego to admit you might have been wrong, even for an instant.  It's a great way to go through life with self assurance.  I do the same thing, except my assurance is in the Creator.  
Bottom line is that I am and always will be in the tank for Israel and frankly will be happy to see them in possession of all the land in my life time.  The people you continually hold up s paragons of virtuous suffering are just thugs who kill.  Jews, Christians, each other, their wives, children..... so be proud that you chose the right side to be so puffed up and indignant for.  We are , after all, known by the company we keep.

You just keep on throwing baseless statements of personal belief.  I give you facts and you respond back with "gut feelings"  based on....religious upbring....beliefs conditioned by media with hidden agendas....personal religious interests....heritage....whatever. Your rationality and objectivity in any of your discussions is questionable to say the least.  Without wanting to sound arrogant, but I'm truly starting to believe that I've get better things to do than waste my time trying to prove evident facts with someone who is proving to be deaf and dumb to reason.

Yes, the US bought peace from Egypt and Jordan.  The US aided Israel into a regional powerhouse for personal interest, not out of good will BTW.
But, who are these Arab stepchildren who have become dependent on US welfare?

Quote

The point is that time and time again I've seen US administrations attempt to coddle, cajole and even force the two parties to the table and ..... nothing comes of it.  This is an instance where one of two implacable foes is going to have to be destroyed out of the land.  Peace is only possible when you have two parties interested in it.  Israel is struggling internally with the consolidation of the settlements and I admit that land grabs are happening.  But when Oby first came to power he forced a 10 month moratorium on construction just so the two sides could talk.  Abbas refused to talk and added more preconditions.

As I've told you again and again, the breakdown in the peace process is caused by Israel, because they keep on building on illegal settlements.  You can try and twist it around as much as you want but this is the be all and end all of the whole issue.  Don't blame it on anyone else but the Israeli Govt and their personal agenda, whatever that is.

and then, on 01 May 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Bottom line is that I am and always will be in the tank for Israel and frankly will be happy to see them in possession of all the land in my life time.  The people you continually hold up s paragons of virtuous suffering are just thugs who kill.  Jews, Christians, each other, their wives, children..... so be proud that you chose the right side to be so puffed up and indignant for.  We are , after all, known by the company we keep.

Sorry, but this whole point is absolutely ludicrous and just proves you're judicial, biased opinions are worthless even debating.

[and then]

BlackRedLittleDevil, on 01 May 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

You just keep on throwing baseless statements of personal belief.  I give you facts and you respond back with "gut feelings"  based on....religious upbring....beliefs conditioned by media with hidden agendas....personal religious interests....heritage....whatever. Your rationality and objectivity in any of your discussions is questionable to say the least.  Without wanting to sound arrogant, but I'm truly starting to believe that I've get better things to do than waste my time trying to prove evident facts with someone who is proving to be deaf and dumb to reason.

Yes, the US bought peace from Egypt and Jordan.  The US aided Israel into a regional powerhouse for personal interest, not out of good will BTW.
But, who are these Arab stepchildren who have become dependent on US welfare?



As I've told you again and again, the breakdown in the peace process is caused by Israel, because they keep on building on illegal settlements.  You can try and twist it around as much as you want but this is the be all and end all of the whole issue.  Don't blame it on anyone else but the Israeli Govt and their personal agenda, whatever that is.



Sorry, but this whole point is absolutely ludicrous and just proves you're judicial, biased opinions are worthless even debating.

I have been completely honest about my stance regarding Israel.  You tell me Israel is 100% to blame for all the issues between themselves and their neighbors and I disagree with you.  The fact that I have no skill as a debater seems to annoy you but if you just accept the fact that I'm only talking about my beliefs it makes me much easier to understand.  If I am unworthy of your time then ignore my posts.  I have trouble understanding why a differing opinion bothers you so much.  I have my suspicions of why they do but it's pointless and off topic to bring them up now.  
Here you go:  Israel is evil.  They are thieves, liars and bullies.  They practice apartheid, genocide and various other atrocities concurrently.  Their enemies are only seeking dignity and justice and as such have done no wrong...ever....  Israel needs to leave the land they have stolen and give every square inch back to the Palestinians.
These are the things the world seems to believe.  I assume that you do as well.  Even if every word of it was true..... Israel has said they will never be pushed from the land again.  I believe them.  The world obviously does also since no concerted effort has (recently) been made to evict them.  They have NUCLEAR weapons.  They have proven they will take tremendous risk to survive and have shown an unerring ability to do so in the face of incredible odds.  Did I mention that they have nuclear weapons?  Yet their enemies stay doggedly after them, year after decade and never stop banging the drum or repeating the lies.  When it finally reaches a critical point the world will burn.  And ALL because of hatred for a relatively small group of human beings who want nothing more than what the rest of us want.  Just to live and be free from fear.
How does it feel to believe you are right about every point in anargument yet realize you'll ultimately lose anyhow?
Cheers