71 replies to this topic

[Setton]

Meiliken, on 22 April 2012 - 05:47 AM, said:

Gotta love selective reasoning.  People see/witness what they want to see/witness.  Personal bias does not make something true.  Like how a co-worker of mine refuses to accept the sky is blue due to light refraction in the water molecules in the air and reflection from the ocean.  They're stance was "god did it" and literally covered their ears to refuse hearing the facts of why the sky is blue.  Selective reasoning.  The weakness of all religious believers.

Everyone uses selective reasoning. Without it, we'd just have to accept everything anyone told us ever. For example, I wouldn't believe you if you told me you have a pet mongoose called Alan who plays tennis at weekends. Because I've decided it's unlikely and that I will only believe things where I have evidence for them. I would believe you if you told me the sky is blue, because it tallies with my own experience.

The only difference between this and a viewpoint on god(s) is what criteria have been selected. You wont believe a 2000 year old story but you will believe a scientific paper. You've just set different standards, not necessarily correct or better ones.

Sakari, on 22 April 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Or make the finger pulling the trigger not pull it?

Free will?

If God exists and judges us on our choices, what's the point in living if He'll interfere with our choices?

Personally, I think he's incredibly lucky or has a really quick thinking guardian angel. But as BM says, who cares what saved him, the important thing is that he's still alive and, in this case, even if he claims it was Alan the mongoose, I'm not going to complain

[csspwns]

give thanks to karma not the myth about god

[Meiliken]

Setton, on 23 April 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Everyone uses selective reasoning. Without it, we'd just have to accept everything anyone told us ever. For example, I wouldn't believe you if you told me you have a pet mongoose called Alan who plays tennis at weekends. Because I've decided it's unlikely and that I will only believe things where I have evidence for them. I would believe you if you told me the sky is blue, because it tallies with my own experience.

The only difference between this and a viewpoint on god(s) is what criteria have been selected. You wont believe a 2000 year old story but you will believe a scientific paper. You've just set different standards, not necessarily correct or better ones.

Not everyone uses selective reasoning.  I may want to believe people are good, but the evidence shows different.  That becomes not selective reasoning, that becomes acceptance of evidence.  I have no bias which is why I'm a scientist.  I accept only what can be proven, and adjust it when evidence changes and evolves.  That is not selective.  So am I the exception?  Doubtful.

The criteria is that one is based on scientific evidence, the other on fantasy that has no evidence whatsoever in a story riddled with plot holes and contradictions.  It will always be better to base ones viewpoint on what can be proven then something which has no proof.  You know there are people today that have formed a religion based on star wars the force, and perhaps in 2000 years people will think it is real based on fantasy books.  

[Parsip]

I think you all assume that God's supposed intervention was meant to save the boy's life, and only that. In that case, "why didn't God prevent the bullet from being fired in the first place?" is a valid question. But no, I believe that if God did intervene, it's possible that he wanted it to be this way. He wanted the bullet to be fired and barely miss the boy, so that he takes this as a spiritual message, to strengthen his faith, or spread God's word, or do good in the world, or something.

Edited by Parsip, 24 April 2012 - 06:16 AM.

[Left-Field]

Euphorbia, on 22 April 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

I find it kind of funny how some Christians say "only god knows the answers", yet in church there are plenty of people willing to state exactly what god wants, needs, knows, etc. etc.

The Bible, being the word of God, gives us answers to some, and maybe even all, of what you stated above. It does not, however, explain to us why God would allow the life of one person on Earth to be extended and not the life of another - at least not to the detailed extent I believe some are looking for.

In the end though, God saves all of those who believe in Him. So in that regard those that die of unfortunate circumstances here on Earth are still very much alive.

[Rlyeh]

Setton, on 23 April 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Free will?

If God exists and judges us on our choices, what's the point in living if He'll interfere with our choices?

Isn't this the same god who hardened the Pharaoh's heart?

[Setton]

Meiliken, on 24 April 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

Not everyone uses selective reasoning.  I may want to believe people are good, but the evidence shows different.  That becomes not selective reasoning, that becomes acceptance of evidence.  I have no bias which is why I'm a scientist.  I accept only what can be proven, and adjust it when evidence changes and evolves.  That is not selective.  So am I the exception?  Doubtful.

The criteria is that one is based on scientific evidence, the other on fantasy that has no evidence whatsoever in a story riddled with plot holes and contradictions.  It will always be better to base ones viewpoint on what can be proven then something which has no proof.  You know there are people today that have formed a religion based on star wars the force, and perhaps in 2000 years people will think it is real based on fantasy books.  

But how many of the things you accept as fact have you personally tested and found to be true? My point is that everyone has to trust someone to be reliable or we'd all have to work out everything for ourselves. You select only evidence that comes from what you feel to be reliable sources. So do people who believe the Bible or even that Star Wars is real. The only difference is who they have decided is reliable.

Rlyeh, on 24 April 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

Isn't this the same god who hardened the Pharaoh's heart?

Depends who you ask.

[The_Sensual_One]

It was his Guardian Angel. We all have them.

[Beckys_Mom]

Angel Left Wing, on 24 April 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

In the end though, God saves all of those who believe in Him. So in that regard those that die of unfortunate circumstances here on Earth are still very much alive.

Is this because you know for a fact that many believers have tragically been killed  on earth over time,  and you cannot explain why they were saved  on earth  like this kid in the OP  <-- Just asking

I fully understand and respect your belief.- ...Can I ask you why  not the non believers?  You only mention those who beleive?...   I personally believe  God saves all and takes all in the end.. and anything that happens, will be Gods decision...

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 24 April 2012 - 12:24 PM.

[JasonExplosion]

If God had something special in mind for this kid, wouldn't he want him in Heaven sooner? I'm calling sorcery on this one.

[Beckys_Mom]

JasonExplosion, on 24 April 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

If God had something special in mind for this kid, wouldn't he want him in Heaven sooner? I'm calling sorcery on this one.

That is a tricky one... Because we know for a fact  many little children alike have been taken from this world very early....I do not think  there is a believer in God who can seriously  give you a straight forward reply to that ...Without  inserting  a belief of their own..

We could ask... - Are our paths  truly chosen?..........If so...Why are so many little children  who beleive n God and God is special to them too and there are little children who do not understand God as yet, they are too young...So  ....Those who are  - Raped / killed... shot dead,  knifed to death,... beaten to death... poisoned to death .fell very ill and not treated.....left to starve to death  and so on.. all suffering in their short little lives....Was their path  truly made out for them by God?  If so, what would be Gods reasoning?   I believe this is a tricky think to ask...and I do not beleive anyone can truly give a real answer to that... Without  sticking in a personal belief

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 24 April 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[ealdwita]

This lad must be somebody really special to warrant God's personal intervention. Even Pope John Paul II only got Our Lady of Fatima in 1981!

[Alienated Being]

Feelingz, on 24 April 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

It was his Guardian Angel. We all have them.

What evidence do you have to support this claim?

[Rlyeh]

Feelingz, on 24 April 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

It was his Guardian Angel. We all have them.

They must have been on lunch break when a few hijacked planes flew into buildings.

Edited by Rlyeh, 24 April 2012 - 05:28 PM.

[Left-Field]

Beckys_Mom, on 24 April 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Is this because you know for a fact that many believers have tragically been killed  on earth over time,  and you cannot explain why they were saved  on earth  like this kid in the OP  <-- Just asking

I'm assuming you meant "weren't" rather than "were."

To answer your question though, no, that is not the reason why I said, "God saves all of those that believe in Him." I made that statement based upon what the Bible tells us.

Beckys_Mom, on 24 April 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

I fully understand and respect your belief.- ...Can I ask you why  not the non believers?  You only mention those who beleive?...   I personally believe  God saves all and takes all in the end.. and anything that happens, will be Gods decision...

I will not say that God doesn't save all of mankind because I am not familiar enough with the Bible to claim that He won't. I do know that He will definately save those who do believe in Him, however.