77 replies to this topic

[The Silver Thong]

As far as the OP goes does god answer prayers that are selfish. IMO why would he or it answer any prayer as they are all selfish.

Edited by The Silver Thong, 21 April 2012 - 10:17 PM.

[ChloeB]

The Silver Thong, on 21 April 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

Health, love, family ect. just sayin  I have money yet I am very poor.

Awwwwww?  Very poor?  Nothing more pitiful than a ronery and sadry Silver Thong!     





  

[Beckys_Mom]

I think it would be   great to live in a world that  did not require  money at all


I think about Star Trek  on this one...

[The Silver Thong]

ChloeB, on 21 April 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Awwwwww?  Very poor?  Nothing more pitiful than a ronery and sadry Silver Thong!     





  

That was awesome     ok not quite that wonwe  

[libstaK]

When it comes to "Ask and ye shall receive ...".  I think we need to consider a "good parenting" response from God.   For instance, if you are asking for wealth and riches, what you may be saying is you have a flawed understanding of the value of material things and are really asking to be educated on their absolute lack of any real value to you and especially your eternal non material soul.

Food, shelter and clothing are all that we require to be in action, to live life on Earth - above this we enter the realm of greed and the effects of greed - you may find your question is answered, you just may not be conscious of the REAL question you asked .

We might want to consider, sitting infront of our laptops/PCs etc that asking for "riches" on a universal scale could be a little disingenuous given we are right up there in the 10% of the wealthiest part of the world's population to start with.

[Mistydawn]

libstaK, on 22 April 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

When it comes to "Ask and ye shall receive ...".  I think we need to consider a "good parenting" response from God.   For instance, if you are asking for wealth and riches, what you may be saying is you have a flawed understanding of the value of material things and are really asking to be educated on their absolute lack of any real value to you and especially your eternal non material soul.

Food, shelter and clothing are all that we require to be in action, to live life on Earth - above this we enter the realm of greed and the effects of greed - you may find your question is answered, you just may not be conscious of the REAL question you asked .

We might want to consider, sitting infront of our laptops/PCs etc that asking for "riches" on a universal scale could be a little disingenuous given we are right up there in the 10% of the wealthiest part of the world's population to start with.

I get your point Ibstak, but do you get mine? Ask for what you want, is what I read and understand by the scripture, but we all read into it in our own way, does it mean then, there is a "hidden get-out clause?"

[Paranoid Android]

Mistydawn, on 25 April 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

I get your point Ibstak, but do you get mine? Ask for what you want, is what I read and understand by the scripture, but we all read into it in our own way, does it mean then, there is a "hidden get-out clause?"

I know this wasn't directed at me, but it gets to the heart of what I asked in my first post a few days ago - what is it that we are to ask for?  Is it anything at all?  In my first post, I suggested going to the Bible, and in particular a suggestion not to ignore Luke's gospel.  Of particular note, what does Luke 11 say about "ask and you shall receive"?  Answer that, and I think you'll see the question is not limitless to anything at all that we may want.  It's not exactly a "get-out clause", it's just a statement of what the question is referring to.

Just a thought,

Edited by Paranoid Android, 25 April 2012 - 07:52 PM.

[J. K.]

We also shouldn't forget the context of that Scripture.  Matthew 6:33-34 states "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

That chapter speaks about heavenly treasures rather than earthly treasures.

Also keep in mind that God is not a cosmic genie who is required to grant our wishes.  Prayer is much more than just asking for things.

[Paranoid Android]

J. K., on 25 April 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

We also shouldn't forget the context of that Scripture.  Matthew 6:33-34 states "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

That chapter speaks about heavenly treasures rather than earthly treasures.

Also keep in mind that God is not a cosmic genie who is required to grant our wishes.  Prayer is much more than just asking for things.

You kind of stole my thunder there, J.K.  That was kind of what I was getting at.  It was entirely about heavenly treasure.  Matthew skirts the issue.  Luke 11 goes over similar detail but adds one crucial detail - a reference to God giving the Holy Spirit to those who ask.  Matthew hints at a heavenly treasure, Luke shouts it out loud.  If you as an earthly father would give food and clothes (earthly necessities of living) to those who ask, how much more will God give the Holy Spirit (spiritual necessities for living) to those who ask.

And you are of course right.  God is not a "genie-in-a-bottle", to be rubbed when needed and then put on the shelf when not required any longer.  Too many people tend to think of God this way.  I wish it were not so, but there it is.

I suppose the reference to the "Holy Spirit" is a get-out clause but that makes it sound like God is being duplicitous, like he promises one thing and doesn't deliver because of some hidden clause.  It's not a get-out clause, it's just a statement of what is and what isn't - it's just that some who read this text believe it is saying more than they think it is saying.

~ Regards, PA

[and then]

Some of the most gratifying prayers I have ever engaged in were prayers of thanks.  I recently learned in a very literal way the blessing of a deep breath.  You do it a million times in life and never think of it.  Let it stop and it's the ONLY thing you can think of...pure panic... yes, there are lots of different kinds of wealth.  The fact that we concentrate on money is more about wanting power than possessions. JMO

[libstaK]

Mistydawn, on 25 April 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

I get your point Ibstak, but do you get mine? Ask for what you want, is what I read and understand by the scripture, but we all read into it in our own way, does it mean then, there is a "hidden get-out clause?"

Ah, no I think PA is right in the need to comprehend the context within scripture.  "Ask and ye shall receive .. knock and the door shall be opened to you" is quite distinct in it's implication that it is the nature of the Kingdom of Heaven that is available to the seeker, those that "ask" shall receive .  The material world may offer what we need to journey into knowledge but wisdom is not an attribute of the material world or material wants. Only in the distinct and clear understanding of what is of intrinsic value to ask for at all can a comprehension of totality of the gift of receiving  such knowledge be available.

When you say "we all read it in our own way", to my mind the implication is we comprehend only as much as our current awareness of the nature of the Kingdom of Heaven allows us to.

For those that do not comprehend an alternate nature or "kingdom" within, then the words "ask and ye shall receive" can only be read in the satiation of material desire and all the emotions that are tied to material desires.  Dissappointment is inevitable, for the reasons I have stated but not because of a "get out clause" but because what is supplied is always and only ever in line with that which will bring us closer to God, if a million dollars will not do that then it is not what our "soul" is truly asking for - the importance of this understanding cannot be underestimated.

It is one of the first and most profound "revelations" in any person when they espy the fact that the world and it's desires enslave, deafen and blind us to our true nature and the true nature of life, God, and the Kingdom.

It may help to reflect on a common theme throughout the teaching which applies and first needs to be fully understood "listen if you have ears to hear".  Strange as it is for some to understand, this repeated theme does not apply at all to our physical bodies' auditory senses ....and in that fact is a key "tell" that the nature of the teaching is also not directed at our physical body or it's wants.

When you reflect in the teaching holistically one of many understandings that one arrives at is that it is not God who enacts a "get-out clause" but humanity who are allowed that option and take it all too often in favour of the pleasures of the world - the "get-out" clause is an attribute of free will and choice - choosing to remain in ignorant bliss of the nature of the Kingdom is an option many are happy to take, with that choice comes also ignorance of what can be asked for .....

[Seeker79]

Mistydawn, on 21 April 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

"Ask and it shall be given you....etc"

If you pray for years for the guidance to show more patience then suddenly decide no, you are going to pray for wealth... others will tell you that no, this is not what God meant by ask and it shall be given you...

Did I miss a 'get-out clause' somewhere in his offer??

Prayer for what you want involves your full being. If you are not willing to Persue a prayer for yourself, why would you expect god to? I don't think anything is unobtainable if you put forth the right effort and thought.

If you want 50 mil, just buy something for $1,000 that you know you can sell for a mark up of 20%... Then with proceeds do it again about 50 times. seems a lot easier than god maneuvering the cosmos just so one person can be lazy. He gave us the most complex and powerful brain that we know of..... might as well use it.

[Mistydawn]

gentai, on 21 April 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

whats your definition of wealth? you arent "wealthy" yet? do you mean money? you have no money? if everyone asks the same question, how does the answer manifest itself? maybe the money is already in the vicinity and the 1st person to take one step after "praying" gets his "question" answered 1st.

My whole point isn't wjat my definition of wealth is necessarily. Just, why is the biblical quote"Ask and you shall recieve" perceived as, you can only ask for a/ or b/ and not c?

[Mistydawn]

Paranoid Android, on 21 April 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

Ask for what?  Yeah, I normally make longer posts than this, but this one's pretty short - when Jesus says "ask and it shall be given", what is he talking about?  Anything and everything, or certain things only?  Check the passage (don't ignore Luke, Matthew is not the only place where Jesus says this) and get back to me, ok

~ Regards,

My point exactly, .... where does it specify that you cannot ask for certain things?

[Mistydawn]

The Silver Thong, on 21 April 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

As far as the OP goes does god answer prayers that are selfish. IMO why would he or it answer any prayer as they are all selfish.

Thongy,... aren't all requests of "God" selfish??