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Gentle whisper


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#1    markdohle

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:18 PM

Gentle whisper


The reason I often fail to live out my beliefs, comes about when I stop thinking and pondering what they actually are.  We are either growing deeper in understanding, or becoming less attuned to our own souls and also the gentle whisper of the living Spirit that lives within, who is one with us and wishes us ever fuller life.  The words of Jesus can never be fully understood, they need to lived. The call to love is deep and the self knowledge that is needed to grow in love, comes from failure and a new beginning, over and over again.  To fail, is a call to begin anew, the pondering (prayer) that is needed to take ever deeper root in the call of the Eternal -One.


Ideology

When ones path of any sort becomes closed,
it then becomes an ideology,
which is doomed to collapse sooner or later.




#2    Mr Walker

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 01:46 AM

View Postmarkdohle, on 21 April 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

Gentle whisper


The reason I often fail to live out my beliefs, comes about when I stop thinking and pondering what they actually are.  We are either growing deeper in understanding, or becoming less attuned to our own souls and also the gentle whisper of the living Spirit that lives within, who is one with us and wishes us ever fuller life.  The words of Jesus can never be fully understood, they need to lived. The call to love is deep and the self knowledge that is needed to grow in love, comes from failure and a new beginning, over and over again.  To fail, is a call to begin anew, the pondering (prayer) that is needed to take ever deeper root in the call of the Eternal -One.


Ideology

When ones path of any sort becomes closed,
it then becomes an ideology,
which is doomed to collapse sooner or later.

Thoughtful comments and  IMO true.


In a non christian (or more universal)  context,

Quote

It is important to emphasize that spiritual development is not fundamentally an intellectual or a faith-driven enterprise. Enlightenment is not attained by reading and studying, nor by fervent belief in something outside yourself. The development of higher states of consciousness primarily comes down to regularly and systematically experiencing deeper values of the Self and then integrating that into one’s daily life. The specific experiences an individual has on this journey, will necessarily vary, based on the spiritual tradition and practice one follows, but also based upon your own personal history and tendencies.

http://www.anhglobal.org/en/node/591

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#3    Beany

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 05:13 AM

As Obi Wan would say, Mark, "Use the force." And what did Skywalker have to do? Uh-huh.


#4    White Crane Feather

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 05:55 AM

View Postmarkdohle, on 21 April 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

Gentle whisper


The reason I often fail to live out my beliefs, comes about when I stop thinking and pondering what they actually are.  We are either growing deeper in understanding, or becoming less attuned to our own souls and also the gentle whisper of the living Spirit that lives within, who is one with us and wishes us ever fuller life.  The words of Jesus can never be fully understood, they need to lived. The call to love is deep and the self knowledge that is needed to grow in love, comes from failure and a new beginning, over and over again.  To fail, is a call to begin anew, the pondering (prayer) that is needed to take ever deeper root in the call of the Eternal -One.


Ideology

When ones path of any sort becomes closed,
it then becomes an ideology,
which is doomed to collapse sooner or later.

Yes failure and triumph over that failure ... Its part of our saveing grace isn't it,  many days I wish I were not human... Then others I get high off of the fact that I exist. Go figure.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#5    Meiliken

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:53 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 22 April 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

Yes failure and triumph over that failure ... Its part of our saveing grace isn't it,  many days I wish I were not human... Then others I get high off of the fact that I exist. Go figure.


Mankind has no saving grace.  Love doesn't exist.  It is what people call money, sex, and power.

The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself
Sir Richard Francis Burton

There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance
Hippocrates

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence.
David Hume

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
Aldous Huxley

#6    Mr Walker

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:48 AM

View PostMeiliken, on 22 April 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

Mankind has no saving grace.  Love doesn't exist.  It is what people call money, sex, and power.
I hate  this form of optimistic thinking. It just gives people false hopes about the goodness of mankind. Get real. :devil:  

LOL. It must be tiring, living in a world perceived like this.

I live in a world where; money, power, and certainly sex, have no currency or value at all.
Love not only exists; in a very real sense it is all that exists, and all that human beings need for survival. Given love between people, everything else is provided, via expressions of that love..A child only survives, via the expression of its parent's love, as one example.
In a family, clan, tribe, town, city, or nation where everyone loves each other, no one goes hungry, unsheltered,  unwanted, or uncared for. And while our failures in these areas are glaring, so too are our successes. Around the world, millions of adult humans survive on the love of other humans.

Where once love, caring, and compassion, was only extendable to those in our family tribe or clan, today i can extend the practical power of love across the world, as a postitive aspect of globalisation.

Edited by Mr Walker, 22 April 2012 - 07:51 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#7    Meiliken

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:27 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 22 April 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

I hate  this form of optimistic thinking. It just gives people false hopes about the goodness of mankind. Get real. :devil:  

LOL. It must be tiring, living in a world perceived like this.

I live in a world where; money, power, and certainly sex, have no currency or value at all.
Love not only exists; in a very real sense it is all that exists, and all that human beings need for survival. Given love between people, everything else is provided, via expressions of that love..A child only survives, via the expression of its parent's love, as one example.
In a family, clan, tribe, town, city, or nation where everyone loves each other, no one goes hungry, unsheltered,  unwanted, or uncared for. And while our failures in these areas are glaring, so too are our successes. Around the world, millions of adult humans survive on the love of other humans.

Where once love, caring, and compassion, was only extendable to those in our family tribe or clan, today i can extend the practical power of love across the world, as a postitive aspect of globalisation.


Aye, it is tiring seeing the world for what it is.  I suppose that is why some people commit suicide out of sheer exhaustion.  I wish humanity was as beautiful as you make it sound, but human nature isn't pretty.  It's not even passively ok to look at.  I've walked into churches seeing the vile webs people spin around themselves and nearly vomited.  Saying that people congregate into families is due to love is ignoring the basics of survivability.  Love does not factor into survivability.  There is physical strength in numbers.  The more people there are, the higher likelihood of survivability.  Children don't survive due to love, they survive due the instincts to perpetuate the species.  Animals naturally do this.  Or do you attribute human mentality to animals?

Seriously I wish mankind was as good as you try to portray, in fact I'm desperate for it, but I can't blind myself.  In fact, that is my purpose in life.  To find something worth saving in humanity.  I've yet to find anything.

The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself
Sir Richard Francis Burton

There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance
Hippocrates

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence.
David Hume

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
Aldous Huxley

#8    Mr Walker

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:29 AM

View PostMeiliken, on 22 April 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

Aye, it is tiring seeing the world for what it is.  I suppose that is why some people commit suicide out of sheer exhaustion.  I wish humanity was as beautiful as you make it sound, but human nature isn't pretty.  It's not even passively ok to look at.  I've walked into churches seeing the vile webs people spin around themselves and nearly vomited.  Saying that people congregate into families is due to love is ignoring the basics of survivability.  Love does not factor into survivability.  There is physical strength in numbers.  The more people there are, the higher likelihood of survivability.  Children don't survive due to love, they survive due the instincts to perpetuate the species.  Animals naturally do this.  Or do you attribute human mentality to animals?

Seriously I wish mankind was as good as you try to portray, in fact I'm desperate for it, but I can't blind myself.  In fact, that is my purpose in life.  To find something worth saving in humanity.  I've yet to find anything.
I honestly cant say if this is caused by the environment you live in or by something in you, which would cause you to see any social environment in that way. It is not my place to feel sorry for you, but i certainly wouldn't want to walk in your shoes. In fact I would refuse to.

Personally, I have found that ALL; beliefs, attitudes, emotions, etc., are something we can choose and create for ourselves, through; will, intellect, training and effort. Happiness is a construct of the human mind, and anyone can construct it. On the other hand, there is increasing evidence that some people have a hapiness gene which gives them a greater propensity towards happiness, and others do not. In your case (joke here) it almost sounds like you have a misery gene. :devil:

On the other hand societies have measurable indicators of health and well being. I live in many layers of society, from my nuclear family, out through my wide and multi generational extended family, into a comunity; where people are almost unfailingly, good kind caring and loving. Love is probably the greatest single factor in human survivability. Almost every person i know who has committed suicide (not caused by chemical/clinical depression) has lacked love as a major component in their life. Sometimes that lack has been real, sometimes just perceived.
Love is in part a chemical reaction evolved in humans to cause them to stay together long enough to raise a child. But in humans love, like many other things, is a construct of language, emotion, symbolism and reality. So, for example, when i met my wife i was "hit by the thunderbolt"  I was in love with her on all the above levels from chemical through emotional to intellectual love . However, like all human constructs love has a pattern and requires wiork and effort . Discipline, planned behaviour, self knowledge comparative awareness etc allow me to create a love for my wife which transcends time, aging and everything else. ANd so today I love her as passionately fiercely protectively madly etc as i did when i met her 40 years ago. My parents created the same form of love. SO did hers.
But love can be created and genuinely felt for any and all human beings. I hold a genuine but differnt love for all humans. Thats why i care for them, try to help them, take them into my home feed clothe etc people from all around the world.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#9    markdohle

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 12:14 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 22 April 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

Thoughtful comments and  IMO true.


In a non christian (or more universal)  context,


http://www.anhglobal.org/en/node/591

I agree, it is the day to day living it out my friend.

peace
mark


#10    markdohle

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 12:16 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 22 April 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

Yes failure and triumph over that failure ... Its part of our saveing grace isn't it,  many days I wish I were not human... Then others I get high off of the fact that I exist. Go figure.

The ups and downs of life  :ph34r: , we all have them  :yes:

Peace
Mark


#11    markdohle

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 12:17 PM

View PostBeany, on 22 April 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

As Obi Wan would say, Mark, "Use the force." And what did Skywalker have to do? Uh-huh.

Does that mean I get a cool saber :sk  :geek:  :sk ?


#12    White Crane Feather

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 01:29 PM

View PostMeiliken, on 22 April 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

Mankind has no saving grace.  Love doesn't exist.  It is what people call money, sex, and power.
Hmmmm not for everyone my friend. There are those that simply care about being with their family.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#13    White Crane Feather

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 01:44 PM

View PostMeiliken, on 22 April 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

Aye, it is tiring seeing the world for what it is.  I suppose that is why some people commit suicide out of sheer exhaustion.  I wish humanity was as beautiful as you make it sound, but human nature isn't pretty.  It's not even passively ok to look at.  I've walked into churches seeing the vile webs people spin around themselves and nearly vomited.  Saying that people congregate into families is due to love is ignoring the basics of survivability.  Love does not factor into survivability.  There is physical strength in numbers.  The more people there are, the higher likelihood of survivability.  Children don't survive due to love, they survive due the instincts to perpetuate the species.  Animals naturally do this.  Or do you attribute human mentality to animals?

Seriously I wish mankind was as good as you try to portray, in fact I'm desperate for it, but I can't blind myself.  In fact, that is my purpose in life.  To find something worth saving in humanity.  I've yet to find anything.
Love certainly is an instinct for survivability as MW pointed out.  Animals love aswell. What you are missing is transcendence. Emergent properties often transcend their original functions to become something far greater. Love may be born of instincts, but this capacity transcends those basic genes and instincts. Again as MW pointed out in great numbers the web of synergy that develops is incredible.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#14    Beany

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 05:18 PM

View PostMeiliken, on 22 April 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

Mankind has no saving grace.  Love doesn't exist.  It is what people call money, sex, and power.
If your declarations are a reflection of your life, you have my deepest sympathy.


#15    markdohle

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:46 PM

View PostBeany, on 22 April 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

If your declarations are a reflection of your life, you have my deepest sympathy.

True, he seems to have gone through a horrid time, yet, as he says and I belive him, he tries to live a life of compassion and empathy for others.  We all run deep, healing takes a life time.  

peace
mark





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