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Social Model Is Europe’s Solution


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#1    questionmark

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    Cinicus Magnus

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:52 PM

www.bloomberg.com said:

In the wake of the financial crisis, Europe's leaders are calling the continent's social model into question -- it is "done," according to European Central Bank President Mario Draghi. That's a travesty.

The crisis is, above all, financial.Yet governments aren't addressing the malfunctions that caused this problem. Instead, they are forcing ordinary people to pay and attacking the social systems that support them.

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#2    and then

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:37 AM

Is the problem not caused primarily by governments promising too much in social welfare benefits to too few workers paying too little in taxes?  I know this is an over simplification but is this not the nut of the problem?  In the US if social programs were drastically cut the deficit and debt would be under control in no time.  We'd have rioting in the streets and old or sick people dying in large numbers but the debt would be retired...

Edited by and then, 24 April 2012 - 02:38 AM.

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#3    Leonardo

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:38 AM

View Postand then, on 24 April 2012 - 02:37 AM, said:

Is the problem not caused primarily by governments promising too much in social welfare benefits to too few workers paying too little in taxes?  I know this is an over simplification but is this not the nut of the problem?  In the US if social programs were drastically cut the deficit and debt would be under control in no time.  We'd have rioting in the streets and old or sick people dying in large numbers but the debt would be retired...

You could turn this around and say the Governments in Europe are putting the welfare of people ahead of a love of money. Then the issue becomes those that earn do not appear to care about the welfare of their fellow human beings.

Essentially, the issue is our (human beings') basic selfish nature.

Is the European social model better at addressing and moderating this, or is the US's model?

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#4    and then

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:20 AM

View PostLeonardo, on 24 April 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

You could turn this around and say the Governments in Europe are putting the welfare of people ahead of a love of money. Then the issue becomes those that earn do not appear to care about the welfare of their fellow human beings.

Essentially, the issue is our (human beings') basic selfish nature.

Is the European social model better at addressing and moderating this, or is the US's model?
The European model seems to be more humane but it also is faltering because of a lack of productivity.  In the US, productivity isn't so much a problem but we cannot create enough wealth to pay for the demands of our welfare state.  There has to be a compromise but the most important thing for both models is that gainful employment must be created so that people can have dignity and security.  I refuse to believe that this cannot be accomplished.

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#5    Leonardo

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:29 AM

View Postand then, on 24 April 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

The European model seems to be more humane but it also is faltering because of a lack of productivity.  In the US, productivity isn't so much a problem but we cannot create enough wealth to pay for the demands of our welfare state.  There has to be a compromise but the most important thing for both models is that gainful employment must be created so that people can have dignity and security.  I refuse to believe that this cannot be accomplished.

When you say 'productivity', you are referring to the generation of money, yes?

Which still suggests that money is more important than the welfare of people. The 'issues' all our modern societies face is that we have invested in a belief that something we have created, is more important than us. The problem is not 'striking a balance', that is merely a symptom of the real problem. The problem is what we have created - money.

Edited by Leonardo, 24 April 2012 - 10:30 AM.

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#6    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:56 PM

Actually i think the real problem is that we have raised a society that is welfare dependent rather than self reliant.

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#7    questionmark

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 01:00 PM

View Postand then, on 24 April 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

The European model seems to be more humane but it also is faltering because of a lack of productivity.  In the US, productivity isn't so much a problem but we cannot create enough wealth to pay for the demands of our welfare state.  There has to be a compromise but the most important thing for both models is that gainful employment must be created so that people can have dignity and security.  I refuse to believe that this cannot be accomplished.

Ten years ago everybody was telling the Germans that their model was of the past and the future was the US model of dog eats dog. Now we are where Germany has 6% unemployed (many of them politically intended and in retraining programs) and the US like 9%. Germany is the worlds biggest net exporter (forget China) and has the highest average incomes for the middle class (where it is demonstrating also that the unions are killing us howls are pure incapability).

While you can argue that socialistic models don't work either (where I am not so convinced looking at Sweden and Norway) the bottom line is that the right way to go is to balance capitalism and socialism, at least in the long run, you know at the point where the last dog eaten the second to last dog and is about to starve.

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#8    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 01:05 PM

'I have lived your future & it didn't work'  :-

http://www.youtube.c...&v=bM2Ql3wOGcU#!

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#9    ouija ouija

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:15 PM

View Postand then, on 24 April 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

The European model seems to be more humane but it also is faltering because of a lack of productivity.  In the US, productivity isn't so much a problem but we cannot create enough wealth to pay for the demands of our welfare state.  There has to be a compromise but the most important thing for both models is that gainful employment must be created so that people can have dignity and security.  I refuse to believe that this cannot be accomplished.
Do you have any ideas as to what 'gainful employment' for the thousands(millions) out of work at the moment, might be? Who would fund it at the start?

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