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Ghost Hunting - unprecedented levels


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#1    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:32 PM

So it is one thing to request evidence from people who've have anedoctal tales of hauntings and sightings.

But with the massive amount of organized and somewhat knowledgealbe groups that are currently investigating the paranormal (just look at the number of investigators and groups on this site alone) why has there not been one decent piece of evidence?

How do actual ghost hunters respond to this?  Do you guys think every other team is "donig it wrong" and you will be the lucky/skilled group that captures something definitive.  Or are the sketchy fuzzy bits of EVP or occassioanl EMF spike evidence enough?

I know the post sounds confrontational to a degree, and I accept that, but in reality I am VERY curious, I'm not at all convinced that there is nothing supernatural in our world, I just wonder if these "teams" are spinning their wheels in the wrong direction?

For example, some team decided FLIR was the it thing.  They didn't capture anything, no proof it helps in investigation, but now it's a go to tool for any "serious" ghost hunter.

EMF - again nothing solid, no proof that these meters do anything to help, yet teams have adopted this as standard equipment..why?

What time is it? "peeas nuh burder" and Jelly time!

#2    A Shadow

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:38 PM

Do you have any suggestions to help in getting such evidence? So far this is what the masses have latch on to in the ghost hunting field. Until something else comes along. How do you gather scientific evidence for something that suppose to be beyond scientific explanation or measurement? All you have are people running around trying confirm and recreate rare events, assuming the event in question is/was real that is.

Not all evps are fuzzy, you have the too good to be true ones. But it is possible to take such as hard evidence?

How about these "spirit boxes" everyone is using now? If you had one and heard voices responding to you, how would you take it?

Edited by A Silent Shadow, 25 April 2012 - 11:51 PM.


#3    Ashotep

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:58 AM

I saw a ghost one time but unfortunately I was so amazed by it I never thought about proving to anyone I did see it.


#4    ColoradoParanormal

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 01:52 AM

I've said it multiple times on here and will say it again. The world of the Paranormal as whole is in it's infantile stages. What we have in society regarding the issue of the Paranormal is  something similar to the Spiritualists from the 20's and 30's. Frauds  were using simple tricks and the uneducated masses to milk millions from  society. Claiming they would contact their deceased loved ones and do  all sorts of super natural things for money. This only stopped after  Houdini took it upon himself to expose this fraudulent behavior.

Fast Forward to modern times and the masses watching GH, GHI, GA and the  like and all of a sudden you have thousands of "Professional  Investigators" stomping through cemeteries, people's homes, abandoned  buildings any with simple equipment they've purchased off the internet,  and without and scientific knowledge of how to actually gather data or  use any scientific standards,  they go about making great claims of the  Paranormal.

Some go into people's homes and validate that their "loved one" is still  in the home, or even worse, they scare the living daylights out of the  children involved. Most is harmless, some isn't.

There are a very VERY select few whom are actually educated, connected  with higher education entities and are using true scientific method to  research this. The field of Paranormal Research is in a very infantile  stage at this moment. Where they are simply setting up  the procedures  and protocols for going about the research.

edit: I hate typos and caught one

Edited by ColoradoParanormal, 26 April 2012 - 01:53 AM.


#5    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:47 PM

Any other hunters care to share their theory on why more activity/evidence hasn't been sighted with the tenfold increase in the people actively looking for it? Especially with all of their tools and equipment?

What time is it? "peeas nuh burder" and Jelly time!

#6    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:01 PM

View PostColoradoParanormal, on 26 April 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

I've said it multiple times on here and will say it again. The world of the Paranormal as whole is in it's infantile stages. What we have in society regarding the issue of the Paranormal is  something similar to the Spiritualists from the 20's and 30's. Frauds  were using simple tricks and the uneducated masses to milk millions from  society. Claiming they would contact their deceased loved ones and do  all sorts of super natural things for money. This only stopped after  Houdini took it upon himself to expose this fraudulent behavior.

Fast Forward to modern times and the masses watching GH, GHI, GA and the  like and all of a sudden you have thousands of "Professional  Investigators" stomping through cemeteries, people's homes, abandoned  buildings any with simple equipment they've purchased off the internet,  and without and scientific knowledge of how to actually gather data or  use any scientific standards,  they go about making great claims of the  Paranormal.

Some go into people's homes and validate that their "loved one" is still  in the home, or even worse, they scare the living daylights out of the  children involved. Most is harmless, some isn't.

There are a very VERY select few whom are actually educated, connected  with higher education entities and are using true scientific method to  research this. The field of Paranormal Research is in a very infantile  stage at this moment. Where they are simply setting up  the procedures  and protocols for going about the research.

edit: I hate typos and caught one

It's funny that you mentioned Houdini.  He really saved alot of people from losing money, and was a major factor in exposing that spiritualism movement that was praying on people.

What time is it? "peeas nuh burder" and Jelly time!

#7    ColoradoParanormal

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:13 PM

View PostCakeOrDeath, on 27 April 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

It's funny that you mentioned Houdini.  He really saved alot of people from losing money, and was a major factor in exposing that spiritualism movement that was praying on people.

Exactly! And this is where I believe the world is at again. Due to the inundation of Paranormal themed media, we have millions of uneducated and naive people susceptible to being taken advantage of by the modern day spiritualists. ie; the thousands of Ghost Hunting groups that have sprang up, the thousands of Psychics and the list goes on.

I believe a lot of the Paranormal Investigation groups around today don't mean to harm anyone or defraud anyone. They simply are uneducated and naive as well and go around conducting investigations making great claims of Ghosts and hauntings based off really nothing more than the education they've received watching Paranormal Media and as a result they cause damage to those they're "Helping" and give advice that could be potentially harmful or life threatening.  There are some, who are intentionally wanting to defraud and I wont get into how much I despise them and believe they should be stopped at all cost!

Edited by ColoradoParanormal, 28 April 2012 - 12:12 AM.


#8    mattryan209

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:32 PM

What do people mean by the lack of evidence?Can anyone say Youtube videos..hello!? About the quality of investigations done by naive investigators that don't know what the heck they're doing .I mean look at this youtube video in the link for instance. Surely this is the gold standard of Paranormal investigatingScary Youtube VId












I Kid I Kid. If you watch the video,its probably the funniest thing you'll see in you're life.At least it had me rolling :P

Edited by mattryan209, 28 April 2012 - 12:08 AM.

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#9    ColoradoParanormal

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 12:17 AM

View Postmattryan209, on 27 April 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

What do people mean by the lack of evidence?Can anyone say Youtube videos..hello!? About the quality of investigations done by naive investigators that don't know what the heck they're doing .I mean look at this youtube video in the link for instance. Surely this is the gold standard of Paranormal investigatingScary Youtube VId












I Kid I Kid. If you watch the video,its probably the funniest thing you'll see in you're life.At least it had me rolling :P

lol ok when I first read your post about youtube I sincerely thought you were serious lol!!! That was great!


#10    mattryan209

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 06:55 AM

View PostColoradoParanormal, on 28 April 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

lol ok when I first read your post about youtube I sincerely thought you were serious lol!!! That was great!


Thanks,I was hoping someone would enjoy that :lol: . I'm incredibly sarcastic about believing anything that comes on youtube unless the video has someone with credentials to back himself/herself up.I'm well aware Youtube is filled with amateur fraudsters who have nothing better to do than try to get attention by faking their videos with the use of video software.




Now on the topic of people with some kind of credentials that are taking a rigorous and scientific approach.I'm sure there are a people out there like that,but as Colorado Paranormal said they get overshadowed by the far more numerous thrill seekers who influenced by shows like Ghost Hunters, get some cheap equipment to look for ghosts and have no standards in providing evidence.

Now I have had my own paranormal experiences that God help me being the cynic I am, I've tries my best to rationalize away,so I'm willing to believe my own experiences only after carefully weeding out all other variables.I can't, however, convince myself to fully believe anything put forth by anyone else no matter how real it looks.The reason for this is, I only trust my own motives,and I have been fooled enough times by people in the past to make me the cynical person I am today.

The only way for me to be more open about an experience someone has is to either really know and trust that person,or know the credentials(education) and competence of someone who has taken great pains to research the paranormal. I think that probably rings true with most of the skeptics here,though some on here are so cynical that they are entirely close minded to any notion of the paranormal existing.

Now I did run into a video on My Ghost story fairly recently that caught my eye which I find is an interesting show to watch even if I hold most of it with an air of strong skepticism . It had to do with a biomedical engineer named Andy Coppock who graduated from Mit and own his company called PFM Engineering. He's actually trying to verify the existence of the paranormal, by using infrared lasers(he makes himself btw) that utilize a specific radius of the uv spectrum to catch entities on camera.These are highly expensive lasers,so I doubt his motive would be to sell them  ghost hunters who on average don't have that kind of wealth.

Well,its late so I'll let you be the judge by watching the video.Disclaimer: I still have some personal skepticism notwithstanding since the guy may have credentials,but I don't really know him personally,but this is probably the most believable evidence I've ever seen on a tv program. He may turn out to be some complete fraud,with motives that I never thought of, so I never get my hopes up completely that what's happening on the vid is the real deal :lol:  




Edited by mattryan209, 28 April 2012 - 07:15 AM.

False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil.-Socrates (attributed to)

THOSE WITH AN I.Q. ABOVE 160 PLEASE DO NOT ARGUE WITH ME! YOU'LL JUST EMBARASS ME AND I'LL LOOK LIKE A FOOL!

#11    ColoradoParanormal

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:06 PM

View Postmattryan209, on 28 April 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

Thanks,I was hoping someone would enjoy that Posted Image . I'm incredibly sarcastic about believing anything that comes on youtube unless the video has someone with credentials to back himself/herself up.I'm well aware Youtube is filled with amateur fraudsters who have nothing better to do than try to get attention by faking their videos with the use of video software.




Now on the topic of people with some kind of credentials that are taking a rigorous and scientific approach.I'm sure there are a people out there like that,but as Colorado Paranormal said they get overshadowed by the far more numerous thrill seekers who influenced by shows like Ghost Hunters, get some cheap equipment to look for ghosts and have no standards in providing evidence.

Now I have had my own paranormal experiences that God help me being the cynic I am, I've tries my best to rationalize away,so I'm willing to believe my own experiences only after carefully weeding out all other variables.I can't, however, convince myself to fully believe anything put forth by anyone else no matter how real it looks.The reason for this is, I only trust my own motives,and I have been fooled enough times by people in the past to make me the cynical person I am today.

The only way for me to be more open about an experience someone has is to either really know and trust that person,or know the credentials(education) and competence of someone who has taken great pains to research the paranormal. I think that probably rings true with most of the skeptics here,though some on here are so cynical that they are entirely close minded to any notion of the paranormal existing.

Now I did run into a video on My Ghost story fairly recently that caught my eye which I find is an interesting show to watch even if I hold most of it with an air of strong skepticism . It had to do with a biomedical engineer named Andy Coppock who graduated from Mit and own his company called PFM Engineering. He's actually trying to verify the existence of the paranormal, by using infrared lasers(he makes himself btw) that utilize a specific radius of the uv spectrum to catch entities on camera.These are highly expensive lasers,so I doubt his motive would be to sell them  ghost hunters who on average don't have that kind of wealth.

Well,its late so I'll let you be the judge by watching the video.Disclaimer: I still have some personal skepticism notwithstanding since the guy may have credentials,but I don't really know him personally,but this is probably the most believable evidence I've ever seen on a tv program. He may turn out to be some complete fraud,with motives that I never thought of, so I never get my hopes up completely that what's happening on the vid is the real deal Posted Image  




Hey my friend, yea I needed a good laugh! Thanks! Also, I am happy that you're aboard here, there are a select few of us who've been around a while tha are slowly educating and changing the way this community thinks and sees things. Rationally and Scientifically. So, to find that you have the same thought process as us, it's refreshing and very welcomed! :yes:


#12    A Shadow

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 08:58 PM

Beside a ghost showing up on command and doing every thing you say, is there anyway to get evidence?


#13    Child of Bast

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:41 PM

There is zero unity in the paranormal community. Everyone believes they are the ones doing it right and everyone else is wrong. Until everyone gets their head out of their nether-regions and truly works toward a common goal, there will never be a proving of anything.

No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness. ~ Aristotle

#14    TheEVPman

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 04:26 PM

There is a lot of science that has been conducted into the paranormal. A lot of the research and science has not been made available to the general public. For example. EVP has been studied by a number of scientists in Europe and even by the Catholic Church. The voices were found to be real! However. We can't say where and what the voices really are. Are the voices that of ghosts, demons, angels, or some thing other? After 30 yrs of my own research and dealing with folks like Dennis Hauck-Consultant for the Movie. "White Noise." I'm well aware of the facts... The voices are real...

As a consultant at times for media outlets concerning the paranormal. I can say there are very few of us who really have studied the subject and can produce any known facts.

Again, a lot of the facts have been covered and overlooked in some regards.

Education is the key.

Edited by TheEVPman, 01 May 2012 - 04:31 PM.


#15    CakeOrDeath

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:52 PM

I would love to hear ANY study that has proven the voices are "real" and sourceless.  Most of the makeshift "devices" used to "capture" evps are ghostboxes, and other things that us whitenoise and "inbetween" radio fequencies that pick up "real" radio waves that contain ...wait for it, voices.  These are quite "earthly" in nature.  If you have a device that will transmit radio waves you will pick-up anything from radio broadcasts, babie monitors, CB radios, cordless phones (no cell) etc.

Also, I have listened to soooo many "evps" and well over 95% of the ones that I have heard can easily be dismissed as paradeolia.  I like to call my wife and daughter into my office and let them "hear" the EVPs on youtube, ghsot hunters, ghost adventures etc, without letting them see the screen, they can alomst never get out of it what the "caption" wants you to hear.

I

What time is it? "peeas nuh burder" and Jelly time!




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