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Iran unlikely to make bomb: Israel army chief


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#16    and then

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 01:58 PM

View Postninjadude, on 29 April 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

The exact same holds true for Israel. And we KNOW they have the bomb and are threatening to use it. And they do NOT allow ANY international body to inspect their nukes.

That's a lie.  Sure, it's implicitly understood that any nation that tries to END the Jewish State will be incinerated, but no such threats have been  been made since 1973 and even then they were made through back channels.

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#17    ninjadude

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:25 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=sLlHQTT0FhA

https://www.youtube....h?v=wNE2II-S9Ag

Not a lie. you can google - Israel threatens Iran with nukes - to get some of the articles.

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#18    and then

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:47 PM

View Postninjadude, on 29 April 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

https://www.youtube....h?v=sLlHQTT0FhA

https://www.youtube....h?v=wNE2II-S9Ag

Not a lie. you can google - Israel threatens Iran with nukes - to get some of the articles.

I was wrong and I apologise for calling you a liar.  The FoxNews article quotes a senior un named source but I accept the report since it is from Fox.  The context of the article was that as a last chance way of stopping Iran from gaining a nuke Israel would use a tactical nuke so that definitely counts as a threat.

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#19    MichaelW

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 08:54 PM

View Postninjadude, on 29 April 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

The exact same holds true for Israel. And we KNOW they have the bomb and are threatening to use it. And they do NOT allow ANY international body to inspect their nukes.

Israel threatens to strike Iran, not use nuclear weapons. We don't know how they will do so, through air power or through their submarines or even through conventionally tipped missiles. After all, they are not nuclear weapons unless they actually have nuclear warheads fitted to them.

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#20    and then

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:02 PM

View PostMichaelW, on 29 April 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

Israel threatens to strike Iran, not use nuclear weapons. We don't know how they will do so, through air power or through their submarines or even through conventionally tipped missiles. After all, they are not nuclear weapons unless they actually have nuclear warheads fitted to them.

This was my point as well but Dude was correct in that Israel DID threaten to use nukes if all else failed to stop Iran from gaining a nuke.  I was unaware that they had made such a threat.  They did not casually say they would use them as a first strike weapon but a threat is a threat.  And frankly, I doubt the Iranians even take them seriously.  I would be amazed if Israel used even a nuclear bunker buster unless their existence was threatened because  once they uncork THAT bottle, the world just becomes unbearable for them.

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#21    Parsip

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:27 AM

Israel does not openly have nuclear weapons. They have a policy of nuclear opacity. They neither admit nor deny the existence of their weapons. They've stated that they won't be the first nation to openly introduce nuclear weapons to the Middle East, and the Arabs have stated that if Israel acquires nuclear weapons, they will withdraw from the NPT. It's inconceivable for Israel to threaten to use something they don't possess. All they can do is hint, which is no different than the Iranian' statements that Israel is an illegal parasite that will be destroyed, in one week, or within 15 years.

Edited by Parsip, 30 April 2012 - 10:29 AM.


#22    RavenHawk

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 02:30 AM

View Postninjadude, on 29 April 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

The exact same holds true for Israel. And we KNOW they have the bomb
Of course, but if Israel opens up then they will be subjected to disarmament and that would make them weak and encourage Iran to attack.  There would be no deterrent to prevent that.

Quote

and are threatening to use it. And they do NOT allow ANY international body to inspect their nukes.
Well, I wonder why?  Could it be because Iran threatens them?  DOH!  The only way to disarm a belligerent is to either intimidate them or give them a bloody nose.  And right now, Israel’s deterrent is working.  And that is keeping the entire region as stable as possible.

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#23    ninjadude

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:31 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 02 May 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

Of course, but if Israel opens up then they will be subjected to disarmament

the NPT is nothing about disarmament. Where would you get this mistaken idea?

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#24    ninjadude

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:33 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 02 May 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

Of course, but if Israel opens up then they will be subjected to disarmament

the NPT is nothing about disarmament. Where would you get this mistaken idea?

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#25    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:50 AM

View PostRavenHawk, on 27 April 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Slow down there big fella.  If it's still 20% then that's all you needed to say.

Apparently not. You are speaking as somewhat of an authoritative figure on the subject, yet you clearly do not know even the most simplest of details on the subject.

View PostRavenHawk, on 27 April 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Around and around she goes, where she stops, no body knows.  How do we know that *ALL* material is accounted for and how do we know they are not working towards creating a weapon if the IAEA cannot get into those military sites?  This is a legitimate question and the honest answer is "we don't".  But given track record, what do you think?  Everything must follow character.

We know that *ALL* the material is accounted for - and as I already explained, in the post you quoted no less - because the IAEA have stated this after EVERY inspection. Every single one. We know they are not working on developing a *NUCLEAR* weapon because they would need the uranium on site to do this - we know for a fact that they do not have the material on site. They already have weapons that could be modified to carry a warhead, so there is really no point in the IAEA asking, along with no right, to be allowed access to a militaryfacility. This request was made at the behest of the U.S. and Israel (through the U.S.) as a means to try to find something, anything, to make it look in the eyes of the West's governments and Western public as though Iran are doing anything at all wrong. Which they aren't. In fact, Iran have already went way above and beyond what is required of them as signatories of the NPT, yet there is still nothing which would actually lead anyone to believe they are working towards gaining a nuclear weapon.

Remember, just about every entity of U.S. intelligence has stated that Iran DOES NOT HAVE A NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM. This would not happen if there was even a possibility of the statement being untrue.

View PostRavenHawk, on 27 April 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

We would?  We have excellent detection capabilities but we are not that good.

Actually they are that good. We would know almost straight away from either of three scenarios: Either the IAEA during their next visit would notice the diversion of nuclear materials, or they would be refused entry to nuclear sites, or Iran would remove itself as a signatory of the NPT.

View PostRavenHawk, on 27 April 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Depends when that year started.

See above.

View PostRavenHawk, on 27 April 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

I don't think finding the signature will be a major concern (we'll know where it came from) and I really doubt that the West would nuke Tehran in retaliation.  But it would bring a world of hurt on it.  But there are plenty of opposition in Iran that using nukes would not be necessary, provided that we supply aid and support to that opposition.  But people need to understand this time that this is a multi-generational endeavor.  We'll have to go in with boots on the ground and stay for a long time.  We'll need to prepare for that.

The West would turn Iran to glass for using a nuke. To think any different is just silly.

And I fear you completely and utterly over estimate the internal opposition to Iran's current regime. You're talking about less than 30% of the population (going by the last election - please, please don't try to claim to me it was fixed. I have debunked that silly claim far too many times on here to have to do it once again. Use forum search and you'll quickly see what I mean), of whom only probably 10% would actually rise up (estimate of course). Though we did managed to fund a minority in Libya successfully and are doing the same through back channels in Syria, not to mention we have done it countless times all over the third and developing world against the majority of the involved countries' populations, so who knows, maybe Iran could be the next in a long line of democratically elected governments to be overthrown by the West (U.S., Britain). One thing is for sure, they will be one of the only countries that have had their democratically elected government overthrown twice! Hah! Champions of freedom and democracy my a-r-s-e!

View PostRavenHawk, on 27 April 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Not farcical but definitely all lunacy.  But the Muslim hatred of Israel and the world and their "Right of Arrogance" would be just enough to make them think that they could get away with it.

The hatred for Israel and 'The West' (not the World, as you seem to believe) from arabs does not stem from religious roots. It is primarily down to the foreign policy forcibly exerted in the region to the detriment of the collective populations. If you do not realise this, then read a history book.

Edited by ExpandMyMind, 03 May 2012 - 10:58 AM.


#26    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:50 AM

View PostParsip, on 30 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Israel does not openly have nuclear weapons. They have a policy of nuclear opacity. They neither admit nor deny the existence of their weapons. They've stated that they won't be the first nation to openly introduce nuclear weapons to the Middle East, and the Arabs have stated that if Israel acquires nuclear weapons, they will withdraw from the NPT. It's inconceivable for Israel to threaten to use something they don't possess. All they can do is hint, which is no different than the Iranian' statements that Israel is an illegal parasite that will be destroyed, in one week, or within 15 years.

Wait, what sort of illogical, backwards, defunct reasoning is behind this post?

What the post quoted basically says: Israel does not have nuclear weapons because they have not admitted so. Whaaat? Going by your own reasoning then, it is safe to assume that if Iran acquired nuclear weapons, but just didn't tell anyone, then that would be ok? Those weapons, technically, wouldn't exist? What's going on here? :D

Israel: 'We're not going to be the first to admit we have weapons.'

How does that lessen in any way the fact that they do indeed have them? Their possession of nukes is one of the worst kept secrets in the World. I mean they tried to sell them to apartheid South Africa! Not to mention the nuclear subs they're getting from Germany, or 101 other reasons we know they have them. What people like yourself don't realise, is that if a nuclear arms race picks up in the Middle East, it will be ISRAEL who started it.

"Iranian' statements that Israel is an illegal parasite that will be destroyed, in one week, or within 15 years."

Oh how the nonsensical and empty misinformation and propaganda just piles up.

Iran have NEVER stated that they will destroy Israel. Ever. In fact, you should check out the vid where Israel's Deputy PM admits that Iran did not say they would be wiped out.


Israel's Deputy PM Admits Iran Didn't Threaten to Wipe Israel Out





Edited by ExpandMyMind, 03 May 2012 - 11:53 AM.


#27    and then

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 01:02 PM

Wow.....   Iran is lucky to have such an advocate.  But the bottom line is that the world looks to be headed to war over Iran's non existent intentions.  Perhaps you should share some of your unassailable evidence with the US and Israel?  To believe that the nation of Israel would risk thousands of lives, a good chunk of her infrastructure and what miniscule amount of goodwill she possesses among the nations just to damage temporarily a non existent weapons program is..... insane.  Either her government is running a grand bluff or they are in fact willing to enter into such risk.  But then, maybe they just aren't as intelligent as you, Ex.

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#28    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 01:55 PM

View Postand then, on 03 May 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

Wow.....   Iran is lucky to have such an advocate.  But the bottom line is that the world looks to be headed to war over Iran's non existent intentions.  Perhaps you should share some of your unassailable evidence with the US and Israel?  To believe that the nation of Israel would risk thousands of lives, a good chunk of her infrastructure and what miniscule amount of goodwill she possesses among the nations just to damage temporarily a non existent weapons program is..... insane.  Either her government is running a grand bluff or they are in fact willing to enter into such risk.  But then, maybe they just aren't as intelligent as you, Ex.

The U.S. and Israel, and countries all around the world, are already aware of everything I speak of.

If you do not understand the power struggle and geopolitical politics that exist between the involved parties by now (along with the propaganda and empty rhetoric used to further the policies against Iran), after so many people have schooled you on the subject, then that is no fault of mine.

Share with the U.S. and Israel? Some of the most powerful intelligence entities inside both countries have already disclosed what I am saying, agreeing with my claims, not to mention countless politicians from the countries.

The info is readily available for anyone with even the slightest of analytical minds to discover and deduce truth from. Not one part of any of these posts I've made is untrue. Which is why you never actually debate the content of my posts at all - all you do is spout your own doomsday-inspired conspiracy theories.

Edited by ExpandMyMind, 03 May 2012 - 01:58 PM.


#29    and then

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 02:38 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 03 May 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

The U.S. and Israel, and countries all around the world, are already aware of everything I speak of.

If you do not understand the power struggle and geopolitical politics that exist between the involved parties by now (along with the propaganda and empty rhetoric used to further the policies against Iran), after so many people have schooled you on the subject, then that is no fault of mine.

Share with the U.S. and Israel? Some of the most powerful intelligence entities inside both countries have already disclosed what I am saying, agreeing with my claims, not to mention countless politicians from the countries.

The info is readily available for anyone with even the slightest of analytical minds to discover and deduce truth from. Not one part of any of these posts I've made is untrue. Which is why you never actually debate the content of my posts at all - all you do is spout your own doomsday-inspired conspiracy theories.
That was an attempt at sarcasm.  Of course they already know the truth.  THAT is the whole point.  No rational government would attack and risk all the adversity I mentioned just to do damage to a country that is otherwise no threat.  Yes you do provide impeccable evidence that Iran is not in the act of assembling  nuclear weapon.  Even a simple firearm is deadly but only when loaded.  It takes a moment to load.  Once the frame and mechanical workings are placed together and finished, the ammunition has to be paired with it before it can do any damage.  Simply endlessly droning on about Iran not building a bomb is tantamount to lying.  Of course they are working toward a nuclear weapon.  Only a fool or an idiot ideologue would contest that.  I refuse to debate the content of your posts because they are always about an issue other than the one I'm referring to.  You have long ago proven that Iran is not assembling a nuke.  Even that they do not currently have the necessary materials to do so.  But you never answer the question of why the world is jumping through hoops to put a stop to the process they are involved in.  You could simply say that you do not care if Iran becomes a nuclear power.  That Iran is as rational as Israel and that the world will not be negatively impacted by an Iranian nuke.  This seems to be how you feel so why not just admit it?  I wouldn't think you an antisemite for that.  I would take it as you being deluded about the reality of the situation, but that's all.
BTW that "doomsday" scenario I espouse has never included Iran nuking Israel or vice versa.  War certainly at some point but not nukes.  Not against Israel or Iran.

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#30    Leonardo

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:07 PM

View Postand then, on 03 May 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

That was an attempt at sarcasm.  Of course they already know the truth.  THAT is the whole point.  No rational government would attack and risk all the adversity I mentioned just to do damage to a country that is otherwise no threat.  Yes you do provide impeccable evidence that Iran is not in the act of assembling  nuclear weapon.  Even a simple firearm is deadly but only when loaded.  It takes a moment to load.  Once the frame and mechanical workings are placed together and finished, the ammunition has to be paired with it before it can do any damage.  Simply endlessly droning on about Iran not building a bomb is tantamount to lying.  Of course they are working toward a nuclear weapon.  Only a fool or an idiot ideologue would contest that.  I refuse to debate the content of your posts because they are always about an issue other than the one I'm referring to.  You have long ago proven that Iran is not assembling a nuke.  Even that they do not currently have the necessary materials to do so.  But you never answer the question of why the world is jumping through hoops to put a stop to the process they are involved in.  You could simply say that you do not care if Iran becomes a nuclear power.  That Iran is as rational as Israel and that the world will not be negatively impacted by an Iranian nuke.  This seems to be how you feel so why not just admit it?  I wouldn't think you an antisemite for that.  I would take it as you being deluded about the reality of the situation, but that's all.
BTW that "doomsday" scenario I espouse has never included Iran nuking Israel or vice versa.  War certainly at some point but not nukes.  Not against Israel or Iran.

The only impact Iran having nukes would have, would be to tone down the Israeli-American (and maybe the Arab) rhetoric towards it.

After all, North Korea has nukes - and the leadership of that nation is several buckets of crazy past what many perceive the leadership of Iran to be. Yet the world still revolves and we all argue about our own petty concerns while being influenced by whatever propaganda we let influence us.

Edited by Leonardo, 03 May 2012 - 05:08 PM.

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