41 replies to this topic

[Gromdor]

Was there even any positive results that Bush could have used in 2004 as political capital?  OBL was still alive and Afghanistan and Iraq were still in progress.

[CommunitarianKevin]

msmike1, on 05 May 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Bin Laden has been dead for years. Plain and simple. I have seen no evidence at all that says a group of seals stormed in and killed Osama at all. All we have is the word of the Government. Are you going to just take the word of the government?

Mike

Do you think aliens have been playing a part in human civilization for thousands of years too?

[Legaia]

What if he does? There's more evidence for that than OBL being taken out by the SEALS on that day.

[CommunitarianKevin]

Legaia, on 06 May 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

What if he does? There's more evidence for that than OBL being taken out by the SEALS on that day.

There is no evidence for aliens. Conspiracy theorists just want history to be more interesting than it is. They also rely on a lack of evidence as evidence...

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

HuttonEtAl, on 06 May 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

There is no evidence for aliens. Conspiracy theorists just want history to be more interesting than it is. They also rely on a lack of evidence as evidence...

Whereas you're happy to accept the only evidence for the assassination of b L being the word of the President?

[CommunitarianKevin]

747400, on 06 May 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

Whereas you're happy to accept the only evidence for the assassination of b L being the word of the President?

I accept it because of the response of Al Qaeda and the reaction from the rest of the world and other issues surrounding the topic. The difference is I do not jump to conspiricies when ever something in this world happens. Besides, covering this up or hidding the fact that he was already did serves no purpose. Why act like he is alive when he is dead? Why kill him then? I think the way they acted was correct and normal. The fact of the matter is that I could give two craps either way. If he was dead before, so what? If Obama got him, so what? I am not going to vote for him OBL, and I would imagine most people will not for that reason alone. I mean if I were to vote I would vote for the person I think is most fit to run the country, not because they killed some terrorist or for any other single issue, such as guns, or abortion, or whatever. There is no reason for me to doubt that Obama killed OLB and there is no reason for me to believe there is anything more. I mean hell, maybe aliens came down right after 9/11 and killed OBL because the U.S. has a secret treaty with the aliens.

[Babe Ruth]

Any reference to the GWOT was instantly attacked?  By whom?

The NSA under Bush's direction violated the letter and the spirit of the Fourth Amendment and the FISA statute, Bush admitted it in front of Congress on TV, and nothing was done about those High Crimes and Misdemeanors.

How on earth is that attacking the GWOT?  That is facilitating it, not attacking it.  Various telecom companies did the dirty work for Bush.

The 'liberal rag' NYT did not even PUBLISH the story its reporter (Risen, I think) developed about that NSA law breaking until AFTER the 2004 election.  That, gentlemen, is facilitating and supporting the GWOT.

You guys have a rather strange memory of events during those years.

[MysticStrummer]

Rafterman, on 05 May 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Nope.  I'm not joking.

Any mention of the War on Terror was instantly attacked, which is why it was never really mentioned in the campaign.

Never really mentioned in the campaign? Come on now...

[lightly]

Gromdor, on 05 May 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Was there even any positive results that Bush could have used in 2004 as political capital?  OBL was still alive and Afghanistan and Iraq were still in progress.

Positive results?   Not in my estimation.   So, they went with fear tactics and the slogan "stay the course"    .. and eeked  out a victory by hook or by crook.

[Babe Ruth]

Hutton

Why act like he is alive when he is actually dead?

Because it keeps the story going sir.  The public perception is manipulated by means of stories, and if there is one thing the government (and others) like to do, it's manipulate the public perception.

And they are very good at it.

[and then]

Gromdor, on 05 May 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Was there even any positive results that Bush could have used in 2004 as political capital?  OBL was still alive and Afghanistan and Iraq were still in progress.

The Taliban were in disarray in Afghanistan.  The fighters in Iraq were unable to gain an upper hand at that point.  No buildings were being hit by aircraft and falling down...  Yeah....he had a little to crow about.  I don't mind giving Oby credit for the decision to end UBL.  In fact I think it's the ONLY good thing he's done in 3 years.

[CommunitarianKevin]

Babe Ruth, on 07 May 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

Hutton

Why act like he is alive when he is actually dead?

Because it keeps the story going sir.  The public perception is manipulated by means of stories, and if there is one thing the government (and others) like to do, it's manipulate the public perception.

And they are very good at it.

First off, I don't know if they are very good at it...maybe people are just stupid...
And keep what perception going? That he is alive? So? I guess I am not understanding why it makes a difference...
Amy Sensor was convinced of two felonies, so should I "keep the story going?"

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

and then, on 08 May 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

The Taliban were in disarray in Afghanistan. The fighters in Iraq were unable to gain an upper hand at that point. No buildings were being hit by aircraft and falling down... Yeah....he had a little to crow about. I don't mind giving Oby credit for the decision to end UBL. In fact I think it's the ONLY good thing he's done in 3 years.

For an organisation that's supposedly in disarray, I must say the Taliban seem remarkably resilient.
As indeed do, if we're to believe what we're told in the News, Al Qeadea, since apparently yet another of their Plots has been foiled.
Though perhaps that was because the latest attempted Plot was from, allegedly, the Yemen branch. So what was the point of the obsession with Afghanisatan, if they have branches everywhere that are completely independent of each other and which have no need of a great central command network masterminded by a Mastermind (which is exactly how the structure of terrorist cells has always worked, of course, except in the mind of the Bush Administration).

[Babe Ruth]

HuttonEtAl, on 08 May 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

First off, I don't know if they are very good at it...maybe people are just stupid...
And keep what perception going? That he is alive? So? I guess I am not understanding why it makes a difference...
Amy Sensor was convinced of two felonies, so should I "keep the story going?"

To keep alive the perception(story) that it was he who planned and executed the events of 11 September.  To keep the public fearful so that the Global War On Terror may be perpetuated.  To legitimize all that is done to the Constitution and rule of law in the name of 11 September.  Rudy Giuliani is particularly good at it.

Just like me, there are alot of things YOU don't understand.

[CommunitarianKevin]

Babe Ruth, on 08 May 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

To keep alive the perception(story) that it was he who planned and executed the events of 11 September.  To keep the public fearful so that the Global War On Terror may be perpetuated.  To legitimize all that is done to the Constitution and rule of law in the name of 11 September.  Rudy Giuliani is particularly good at it.

Just like me, there are alot of things YOU don't understand.

Oh I see...You think 9/11 was a conspiricy...
There are a lot of things I don't understand...but when I don't understand something I don't make up details or live in a dream world...