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Eleven Minutes to Understand

middle east

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#16    and then

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:32 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 05 May 2012 - 08:16 PM, said:

Where did I say anyone was mistreated?

Where did I condone violence and hatred?

Where did I raise the Arab's or Palestinian's concerns above the concerns of Israeli's?

Nice attempt at a personal smear job, however.

The point I was making is that there will be no reconciliation until both sides are willing to acknowledge their own failings, rather than simply point to the failings of the other. You posting supremely biased "information" does not bring that reconciliation any closer.

As for the "Israeli side not being given a fair hearing here", I think you will find that is a gross misstatement. From my experience on these forums it is simply that Israel is not given a free pass because of a past atrocity. However, the people and nation of Israel are not treated any more harshly in words than those who are in conflict against them. Any who promote violence and atrocity are equally lambasted here, while those promoting peace are equally lauded.

Is this what you believe I am doing?  Promoting violence and atrocity?  Really?  The video says not a word about anything except the history of the situation.  It does NOT act as a call to action except for thinking persons to view the whole of the conflict a little more dispassionately.  You are a tad overly touchy on this issue Leo.  I never intended to smear you or anyone else here over this issue.  But I will also never be shouted down from speaking what I believe.

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  for what could be, the darkest age...

#17    RavenHawk

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:20 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 05 May 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

i suggest before you suggest anything  when you talk about arabs raven you talk with bit of respect .. we're not animals to go extinct .
I didn't say they were.  You're imposing your sensibilities on what I'm saying just in the same way you do with Bible verses.  I said that anything that can’t adapt will die out all on its own.  That is the way of evolution.  But, as a culture, the Palestinian wasn't meant to survive.  Its people will just absorb back into their native tribes or move on.  Understand?  Black September is just an example of how the Palestinian in the Arab world holds its lowest rung.  They are trouble makers in any country they're in.  Jordan was the nation that they caused the most problems.  This clip is one of the few sources that explains why.  Even under the Ottoman Empire they were disrespected.  The only reason that the Palestinian is still significant is that it holds a dagger at Israel's heart.  So here's a question for you.  If Israel was out of the picture, what would prevent the neighbors from reclaiming land?  I.e. Jordan grabbing the West Bank and Eilat, Egypt grabbing Gaza and the Negev, Syria taking back the Golan Heights and a bit more and Lebanon grabbing Acre/Haifa over to Galilee.  That doesn’t leave the Palestinians much left.  What’s left will end up being a slum.  The Arab world will be bent on ethnic cleansing the Palestinian from the family.

"I don't see one link on this thread providing one shred of evidence for the disgusting jew-hate BS you Zionist liars keep accusing me of." - Yamato
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#18    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:57 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 05 May 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

I didn't say they were.  You're imposing your sensibilities on what I'm saying just in the same way you do with Bible verses.  I said that anything that can’t adapt will die out all on its own.  That is the way of evolution.  But, as a culture, the Palestinian wasn't meant to survive.  Its people will just absorb back into their native tribes or move on.  Understand?  Black September is just an example of how the Palestinian in the Arab world holds its lowest rung.  They are trouble makers in any country they're in.  Jordan was the nation that they caused the most problems.  This clip is one of the few sources that explains why.  Even under the Ottoman Empire they were disrespected.  The only reason that the Palestinian is still significant is that it holds a dagger at Israel's heart.  So here's a question for you.  If Israel was out of the picture, what would prevent the neighbors from reclaiming land?  I.e. Jordan grabbing the West Bank and Eilat, Egypt grabbing Gaza and the Negev, Syria taking back the Golan Heights and a bit more and Lebanon grabbing Acre/Haifa over to Galilee.  That doesn’t leave the Palestinians much left.  What’s left will end up being a slum.  The Arab world will be bent on ethnic cleansing the Palestinian from the family.

i also suggest you don't mix between two different topics
they have the right to exist as much as you have the right to exist you have problem with that ?
what make you think israel have more right than palastinian to exist .. in palestinian lands ?
and don't star the crap about god's chosen people
in politics there is no such religious nonsense .. there's laws
and israel violated those laws many times under the eyes of the world
and they remained silent .. even worse they give them weapons to kill palestinians
again we're not animals we don't just go extinct
such disgusting line

View PostRavenHawk, on 05 May 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

In nature, when a species cannot adapt it goes extinct.

so yeah have respect when you talk about us .. if you agree to your people go extinct i don't
we will exist by force and over your head if we have to
so yeah expect such lines when you throw insults around

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#19    ninjadude

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:58 PM

An amusingly severely slanted video. It's no wonder you think what you do if all watch is this crappola.

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#20    RavenHawk

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:15 AM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 05 May 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

i also suggest you don't mix between two different topics
Mix between what two topics?  I thought we are talking about one??

Quote

they have the right to exist as much as you have the right to exist you have problem with that ?
Stop putting words in my mouth.  Never said they didn’t.  Everyone has the right but there are times when that no longer becomes feasible.  Fate was not on their side from the beginning.  And I’m saying long before they were known as Palestinians during the rein of the Ottomans.  These populations were the overflow and outcasts of the Arab world.  That’s why very few have legitimate land deeds.

Quote

what make you think israel have more right than palastinian to exist .. in palestinian lands ?
and don't star the crap about god's chosen people
in politics there is no such religious nonsense ..
It was Israeli land long before the Palestinians were even called Palestinian.  Historically, Israel was removed from their lands.  That has nothing to do with religion.  And BTW, religion does play a part in politics.

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there's laws
Yes there is.  Between the Palestinian Mandate being unorganized territory and the Balfour Declaration legally opened the land up for Jewish settlement.

Quote

and israel violated those laws many times under the eyes of the world
and they remained silent ..
No more than the Palestinian and their Arab brothers have.  This has shown that there can never be a two-state solution.  What it is is two peoples in competition for one land.  One winner and one loser.  Right now, Israel has the upper hand.  We as the world can prolong the misery or allow it to finish its course.  I think that those Palestinians that can produce proper land deeds should be allowed to stay and become Israeli.  If not, then compensate them and let them go their way.  The majority need to migrate.  They wouldn’t be the first and neither will they be the last.  That would be the most compassionate solution.

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even worse they give them weapons to kill palestinians
again
Actually, France was the major supplier of weapons when Israel needed to DEFEND themselves.  Later the US took over giving not only Israel but also Jordan and Egypt arms for peace.  Plus, Israel makes their own arms, they don’t need anyone else, so that claim is getting pretty stale.  And Iran giving the Palestinians and Hezbollah weapons to kill Israelis isn’t a concern of yours?  Before you go off again, I’m not claiming that Israel hasn’t been brutal.  It has been pretty much even and that will never change.

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we're not animals we don't just go extinct
such disgusting line
And again, you’re the one saying you are animals.  I never made that comparison.  Every human has the right to dignity but the hard cold fact is that with 7 billion on this planet, you can’t make every one happy and you shouldn’t try.  It’s best to go with the most stable solution.  And with the Palestinian gone, there will be better chances to improve peace with Israel’s neighbors and with that will come prosperity for all in the region.  Israel, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan could form an economical cartel that could benefit all.

Quote

so yeah have respect when you talk about us .. if you agree to your people go extinct i don't
we will exist by force and over your head if we have to
so yeah expect such lines when you throw insults around
I haven’t thrown any insults and I haven’t shown disrespect.  But if you can’t handle the hard cold truth, that’s not my concern.

"I don't see one link on this thread providing one shred of evidence for the disgusting jew-hate BS you Zionist liars keep accusing me of." - Yamato
"%&* YOU and your empty suited insults about "racism" you Islamophobic Zionist freak." - Yamato

#21    and then

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:23 AM

View Postninjadude, on 05 May 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

An amusingly severely slanted video. It's no wonder you think what you do if all watch is this crappola.

Where is it untrue?  Damning yes... but where exactly is it untrue?

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#22    MichaelW

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:04 AM

Yet more rhetoric from Knight. Really, is this anything new from you? Spouting the same old brainwashed material which history has proven time and time again to be factually incorrect? Know, I know Israel is far from innocent and committed the same share of "atrocities" (for the want of a more accurate word) but Knight, one day you are going to realise that what your leaders have been feeding you is a bunch of unabridled crap.

The video did not make Islam look evil, and your religion takes up enough share of the justification of the land itself. Tell me, Knight. If Israel was so greedy, why did fellow Arab states Egypt and Jordan annex the Gaza Strip and the West Bank into their states and outright refuse to establish a Palestinian state for the refugees that became their citizens (or in Jordan's case, refugees)? If they were so sympathetic to their cause, why did they do this?

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#23    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:32 AM

ohh michael it's been a long time it's good to see you again
i actually missed your pointview

why would jordan gives palestinian land so israel can steal more of their lands
more and more refuegee and more more israel takes land
and before we know it all .. zip .. all palestine is israel's  property .. why on earth should we do that

and hey michael i don't depend on my hippocrate leaders to tell me the truth
actually i have no leaders anymore
but palestinians are arabs therfore my people and i hate to watch such mockery
and for the video are you serious .. didn't you hear the part .. boo boo we want to drink the blood of the jews
actually drinking blood is forbidden in islam :D
but bashing islam .. well as low and degraded act as it is .. it's to be expected
seems like we are getting all the attention in the world lately

must have pissed alot of people off to earn such hostality against us
but to tell the truth .. their opinons don't mean crap to me

still that doesn't mean i'll stand idle while some one saying speices who don't adopt they'll extinct " meaning arabs "
humans never extincted . and we are human before we are arabs or muslims
so exctinct definison is used on animals and other creatures etc etc .. no human went extinct

by the way mick .. am not sure which one of us is brainwashed
you used to use my gov brainedwashed me excuse i now i think my gov is sick and twisted as """""
i wonder who you think brainwashing me .. must be one of those bugged headphones or microwave helmets

Edited by Knight Of Shadows, 06 May 2012 - 02:35 AM.

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#24    MichaelW

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:00 AM

Knight, what do you mean you have no leaders anymore? Have you finally come to your sense and realised what your President really is?

Look, we all know that Egypt and Jordan stole Palestinian land. Tell me, why would they do this? Why would they steal land which isn't theirs?

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#25    Leonardo

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 07:43 AM

View Postand then, on 05 May 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Is this what you believe I am doing?  Promoting violence and atrocity?  Really?

Please re-read my post. You'll find I was not speaking of you, and then, but speaking of how the folk of UM are with respect to those you are supporting and attacking in your OP. You claimed there was an anti-Israel bias on UM, I defended UM from that slur.

Quote

The video says not a word about anything except the history of the situation.  It does NOT act as a call to action except for thinking persons to view the whole of the conflict a little more dispassionately.  You are a tad overly touchy on this issue Leo.  I never intended to smear you or anyone else here over this issue.  But I will also never be shouted down from speaking what I believe.

The video does not reflect on the entire history of the region and it's modern issues. In that sense it is trying to distort that history with a bias towards the Israeli position. That is my objection. As for it not being a "call to action", it doesn't have to be to misrepresent the situation and promote a continuation of the hostility and violence.

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#26    odas

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:04 PM

This video is pure crapp. It is nationalfashistic in its nature. Kos no need to get upsett because of israelygobels like propaganda.


#27    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:53 PM

View Postodas, on 06 May 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

This video is pure crapp. It is nationalfashistic in its nature. Kos no need to get upsett because of israelygobels like propaganda.
yeah i reliazed it's not really worth it

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#28    ninjadude

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:17 PM

View Postand then, on 06 May 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

Where is it untrue?  Damning yes... but where exactly is it untrue?

untrue and slanted are too different things. I did not say untrue. Simply that leaving off certain other facts and emphasizing the Israeli "plight" makes it slanted to try to gain sympathy. A similar video could and probably has been made for the palestinians. What you have to do is sit back a bit and watch it again. Count how many times Israel is mentioned with no opposing side. Try to put yourself in someone elses shoes. I know that's hard when you're convinced of righteousness. But that vid is severely slanted.

"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!""
- Friedrich Nietzsche

#29    Yes_Man

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:29 PM

I wonder why noone has said about Christians killling thosaunds of Jews and eating them?


#30    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:42 PM

KoS - if you're going to play the "we were here first" card then the Canaanites want a word ;)
Also, I thought "Pre-Exilic Israel" was in a different place to current Israel, or am I thinking of something else?






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