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Do you believe The Bible 100%?


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#1    danbell06

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:35 PM

If so, what lesson does this teach and what is the moral of this story?

Not only is this story utterly bizarre, but it is also absolutely disgusting. A man and his concubine are wandering the streets when they decide to seek shelter for the night, and find a man kind enough to let them stay. That night however, a group of men turn up at the door and demand to see the guest so that they may have sex with him. The owner is unwilling to let his male lodger be raped and so offers up his virgin daughter instead. However, this is still not good enough for the men, so the owner offers them his guest’s concubine and the men accept. The men brutally rape the woman and leave her on the doorstep where she bleeds to death. If that is not enough, when she is found by her husband, he chops her up into twelve pieces which he sends to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.


Source: http://www.drbo.org/chapter/07019.htm

Edited by danbell06, 05 May 2012 - 09:36 PM.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
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#2    Alex44

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:46 PM

I believe the bible zero percent. Interesting story still though.....kind of demented huh?


#3    danbell06

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:05 PM

Hi Alex, yeah its just one of many atrocities in The Bible, just curious as to who and how many actually follow the bible to the word.
Here's more that are probably more often, than not overlooked by a percentage of christians.
http://www.thethinki...ible-atrocities

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#4    Alienated Being

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:27 PM

The Bible is not a credible document - not in the slightest. Anonymously edited and doctored by hundreds of individuals over the past two thousand years? Doesn't scream credibility to me.

I even made my own mother, a devout follower of the good book for years, question the bible last night with one simple question - if the bible preaches "Thou shalt not kill", then why did god convince Abraham to kill his son, Isaac, in order to prove his loyalty?

Doesn't make sense. The bible is a contradictory, demented, ill-written piece of trash that is only followed by the weak-minded. It reminds me of a Stephen King novel.

Edited by Alienated Being, 05 May 2012 - 10:30 PM.


#5    Alex44

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:36 PM

Except no-one thinks Stephen King novels are pieces of ultimate truth by which they should live their life. I hope.


#6    Alienated Being

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:38 PM

View PostAlex44, on 05 May 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

Except no-one thinks Stephen King novels are pieces of ultimate truth by which they should live their life. I hope.
Anybody who believes that they should live their life by a fact-less, base-less book should immediately consult a professional for a psychiatric evaluation.

Edited by Alienated Being, 05 May 2012 - 10:39 PM.


#7    Alex44

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:42 PM

View PostAlienated Being, on 05 May 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Anybody who believes that they should live their life by a fact-less, base-less book should immediately consult a professional for a psychiatric evaluation.

The problem is that believers are not taught that it is fact-less or baseless. To them there are many "facts" in the bible. They are taught that it is wrong to second guess God in any way, so how can they ever objectively try to interpret the "facts" they believe in?

Like most things it is a cycle.


#8    Alienated Being

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:48 PM

View PostAlex44, on 05 May 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

The problem is that believers are not taught that it is fact-less or baseless. To them there are many "facts" in the bible. They are taught that it is wrong to second guess God in any way, so how can they ever objectively try to interpret the "facts" they believe in?

Like most things it is a cycle.
I am referring more-so to the believers who have completely blatant, logical scientific facts placed in front of them, but continue to deny it. It is those who need the help.


#9    Alex44

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:52 PM

View PostAlienated Being, on 05 May 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

I am referring more-so to the believers who have completely blatant, logical scientific facts placed in front of them, but continue to deny it. It is those who need the help.

I agree with you trust me.

My point though is people deny facts because their belief system is rooted so deeply into their being they tend to see facts as "tests" to their belief. That anything a non-believer says is a lie meant to take them away from their faith or in extreme cases devils work.

They definitely do need help, it comes from a childhood of being lied to in my opinion. In most cases, not all.


#10    and then

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:42 PM

View PostAlienated Being, on 05 May 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Anybody who believes that they should live their life by a fact-less, base-less book should immediately consult a professional for a psychiatric evaluation.

THAT'S IT..!!!!! Now I remember who it is that you've reminded me of for so long....The SK character in The Stand..Harold Lauder  :whistle:   AB you are too funny when you get all serious in denouncing other people's beliefs.  I respect your right to believe any way you want but man you shouldn't let it age you.  Erry ting bee airee mon.... :w00t:

Edited by and then, 05 May 2012 - 11:45 PM.

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#11    JGirl

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:52 PM

i do not believe the bible is factual at all,
i do however think it's an excellent book of lessons for being human


#12    Alex44

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:01 AM

View PostJGirl, on 05 May 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

i do not believe the bible is factual at all,
i do however think it's an excellent book of lessons for being human

If you want to pick and choose, sure. If you were to take it in it's entirety however I don't think that statement applies. If someone took everything in the bible, sucked it up and lived by it down to the letter....that person would be seriously messed up.


#13    Alienated Being

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:10 AM

View Postand then, on 05 May 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

THAT'S IT..!!!!! Now I remember who it is that you've reminded me of for so long....The SK character in The Stand..Harold Lauder  :whistle:   AB you are too funny when you get all serious in denouncing other people's beliefs.  I respect your right to believe any way you want but man you shouldn't let it age you.  Erry ting bee airee mon.... :w00t:
I don't know whether to feel insulted, or complimented. I feel I have learned more lessons from watching Jeopardy than I did from reading a silly book.


#14    eight bits

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:16 AM

Well, that particular story is fairly straightforward. It's political propaganda. The title of the book, Judges, refers to the form of intertribal political organization before the institution of the monarchy. God, as you may recall, is not too keen that there be a monarchy (1 Samuel 8:7) , but this story straightens Him out in the first line, 19: 1:

In those days, when there was no king in Israel, ...

Judges could not maintain civil order. A strong hand is needed.

However, there are kings and there are kings. The mythically significant royal house is, of course, David's. David is not the first king. He, is fact, a bandit chieftain who rises to the top of his tribe, and then seizes to the throne from Saul's successor. Which, of course, he's entitled to do, because that first king, Saul, is corrupt and illegitimate.

So, where is the rape of this story set? Gibeah. Where would Saul rule for almost four decades? Why, Gibea (1 Samuel 8:31). David ruled from down the road a piece in Jerusalem.

So, the victim who gets raped, where is she from? Bethlehem. Who else is from Bethlehem? (If you said "Jesus," OK, then why is Jesus said to have been born in Bethlehem?) David is from Bethlehem (1Samuel 17:12).

Who are the rapists? The same people who violated the sacred duty of hospitality, and refused the victim and her party refuge, Benjaminites. And Saul is... ? A Benjaminite. David was from the tribe of Judah.

So where have we heard this story before? Recall especially the detail of the man from somewhere else who offers his virgin daughter and a second woman in order to avoid violating the sacred duty of hospitality. Genesis 19: 4ff. Sodom. Lot offers his two virgin daughters. Lot's not a local boy either. The point of the Genesis story was? The destruction of Sodom was the right thing to do.

The Judges story could hardly be mistaken for a factual narrative. It repeats a story which has already been told in the Pentateuch, which story itself is an instance of a folktale motif, the outsider offering hospitality to the visitor with the locals being hostile. It is plainly political propaganda, and would have been recognized as such by its original readers, in my opinion.

Anyway, there is no global Jewish commitment to Biblical literalism, nor is there for a majority of living Christians, either. So, I suppose the answer to the thread-title question is Irish (or rabbinical), "Believe what about the Bible 100%?"

For those who are committed to Biblical literalism, this is a problem story. The problem is not, however, moral instruction, since that isn't the point of the story, even if it were taken as being a factual narrative.

Edited by eight bits, 06 May 2012 - 12:17 AM.

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#15    JGirl

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:33 AM

View PostAlex44, on 06 May 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

If you want to pick and choose, sure. If you were to take it in it's entirety however I don't think that statement applies. If someone took everything in the bible, sucked it up and lived by it down to the letter....that person would be seriously messed up.
i'm not suggesting someone should do that. that's not about learning lessons, that's about obedience and fear.





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