1963 replies to this topic

[psyche101]

turbonium, on 24 February 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

You choose to emphasize  "didn't mention the stars at all"

However, you don't emphasize  "not even one reported the incredible stars"

So who is actually being dishonest here?

Once again, it seems I have to clarify my position for you, post by post.



My first post on it... ..



My second post...



My third post...




And my fourth post...



MY FIRST SENTENCE: "Stars would be the most amazing spectacle to see"  

Amazing spectacle.  

I
"There's a couple of nice stars out here" - not amazing

"There's a lot of stars out there right now" - not amazing

"Oh, beautiful, beautiful. Look at all those white stars" - so far, it's the only one even close to amazing,



As for being subjective,

I like to see a beautiful sunset. But perhaps a sunset is feared, or considered to be ugly ..say, in Pygmy culture, It is a subjective matter.

Same as your Apollo guy seeing billions of stars as grotesque, ugly. It's one's personal view.

But nobody would ignore or shrug off seeing the countless stars.

Apollo fails a reality check, as usual.

You do realise that Apollo was preceded by Gemini and Mercury. And that many people were involved in all programs. Buzz Aldrin was instrumental in making the moon landing possible with his effortless EVA. They had seen this before you know.

[Obviousman]

Oh, I see. Turbo bases his "FAKED!" claim on the fact that trained test pilots, focused on mission objectives and getting home safely, said "Wow - great view" instead of "OMFG! Look at it! IT'S &*#$$$ AMAZING! It the greatest thing anyone has ever seen!!!!!!".

Maybe Turbs should be reminded that Frank Borman, when the Apollo 8 crew were going around the Moon for the first time, told his crewmates to stop looking out the window and get back to work.

Or geologist 'Jack' Schmitt, when told by Apollo 17 commander to "... take a minute and look at the Earth..."from the lunar surface because he owed it to himself after all the hard work, replied: "If you've seen one Earth, you've seen 'em all" because he wanted to concentrate on the reason he was up there for... lunar geology.

Still, Turbs never lets facts get in the way of their arguements.

Edited by Obviousman, 28 February 2013 - 10:17 AM.

[turbonium]

Waspie_Dwarf, on 24 February 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

I didn't need. You have made two different claims here. There is no ambiguity in "no stars at all". You have been proven wrong on that claim, your failure to acknowledge that is dishonest.

Given that the stars WERE mentioned then HOW they were described remains purely subjective. They saw stars, they described stars but they didn't describe them the way you think they should have done. It's a non-argument. The only thing failing the reality test is you.

I've explained what I meant, and shown you my posts to back it up. And, if you really think I made two different claims, then you I could say you're being 'dishonest' by not mentioning it ever before!

Can we just deal with the specific issue I've raised, and drop the bs accusations?  

It's hardly a "non-argument".

They are first-hand accounts of Apollo crew,  ISS/Shuttle crew, SpaceShipOne crew. They are reliable witnesses, surely!

When they describe something, they are considered to be accurate, valid accounts.


It's not that "they didn't describe them the way" I "think they should have".  they didn't describe them anything like the way non-Apollo crews did!/b].

Describing it with superlatives (ie: amazing, incredible), with awe and wonder. The unforgettable [b]experience.

Like going to the Grand Canyon, and the best description of it is  "I see a few big rocks down there"
.
Or like describing Niagara Falls with 'It's...it's full of water"  

Get the point here?

To view countless stars would be like viewing the Grand Canyon and Niagara Falls at the same time. It is jaw-dropping, a spectacular experience. Even words like 'amazing', or 'incredible'' can't do justice to such an expereince. But it's the closest we have to it.


If a group of people describe the Grand Canyon as 'some big rocks', would you believe they were really there? If it was the only description of it, perhaps you would. But if many others all described the Grand Canyon as incredible, spectacular, an unforgettable experience....you'd know something smells fishy.

[turbonium]

Obviousman, on 28 February 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

Oh, I see. Turbo bases his "FAKED!" claim on the fact that trained test pilots, focused on mission objectives and getting home safely, said "Wow - great view" instead of "OMFG! Look at it! IT'S &*#$$$ AMAZING! It the greatest thing anyone has ever seen!!!!!!".

Maybe Turbs should be reminded that Frank Borman, when the Apollo 8 crew were going around the Moon for the first time, told his crewmates to stop looking out the window and get back to work.

Or geologist 'Jack' Schmitt, when told by Apollo 17 commander to "... take a minute and look at the Earth..."from the lunar surface because he owed it to himself after all the hard work, replied: "If you've seen one Earth, you've seen 'em all" because he wanted to concentrate on the reason he was up there for... lunar geology.

Still, Turbs never lets facts get in the way of their arguements.

Yes, all the Apollo crews were so completely focused on their tasks, they didn't have a few seconds to waste on looking out the windows! Good one.

I guess they did on Apollo 8, right? So they must have all sorts of reports about seeing all the amazing stars?

And the other guy who sees the Earth? So what?

[skyeagle409]

turbonium, on 02 March 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

They are first-hand accounts of Apollo crew,  ISS/Shuttle crew, SpaceShipOne crew. They are reliable witnesses, surely!

There also reliable accounts of Apollo astronauts walking and driving on the moon.

[turbonium]

skyeagle409, on 02 March 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

There also reliable accounts of Apollo astronauts walking and driving on the moon.

A reliable witness would be a person who reports seeing a few stars. It is also a reliable indicator of a witness who is not beyond LEO..

[skyeagle409]

turbonium, on 03 March 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

A reliable witness would be a person who reports seeing a few stars. It is also a reliable indicator of a witness who is not beyond LEO..

The Apollo astronauts were reliable witnesses.

[RaptorBites]

Wow, had to catch up on this one while I was away on a mission for the Army.

I mean really, were the stars the actual reason why we went to the moon and not the moon itself?  The astronauts were experts at their particular job, not expert astronomers.  Their mission was the moon for heavens sakes.  I don't blame them for not being able to describe how the stars look in space, as it is not a priority.

Jesus Turbs, this must be the most ignorant topic you have brought up yet.

[Czero 101]

RaptorBites, on 04 March 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

Jesus Turbs, this must be the most ignorant topic you have brought up yet.

Oh just you wait... it goes in cycles with him. He's discussed this before, and will discuss it again after he figures enough time has passed that people have forgotten when he posted these ludicrous ideas this time around.




Cz

[DONTEATUS]

Yes we seem to have a few peep`s in the Good Old U of M now days ! I can just hear Mid right now Screaming at the Top of his lungs from the Out there in Star Land ! He wound no doubt be trying as only Mid could do to relate the importance of our Great Space program NASA.  ANd all the wonderful men& Women that make and made NASA what it was,and still can be today!
People Like BabeRuth,Zoser,Turb`s, not to mention any names. Will always be looking for the easy explanation and way outta a good discussion !

I for one know for a fact that Man did walk upon the Moon and Will Indeed go back to the Moon someday ! ANd really dont need to show or prove it to anyone. Its just Knowledge ! Actual Knowledge,and Facts. So All you C.T`s and Skeptics Go buy some Land in Florida I hear theres a few good lots left to Sink into !

Edited by DONTEATUS, 04 March 2013 - 03:57 AM.

[Czero 101]

RaptorBites, on 04 March 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

Jesus Turbs, this must be the most ignorant topic you have brought up yet.

And actually, to be clear, the most ignorant topic turbs has brought up in the past was the "I can see the director's chair, guy with a beard, and crew person's shirt sleeve peeking out from behind a curtain in the video clip of the side of Apollo 12 LEM"... at least I think it was Apollo 12. It hurts my head to think down to the level needed to actually believe that tripe of his, so I try not to do it very often, or at all...

Regardless, that one is, to my knowledge, quite rightly the single most ignorant thing he's brought up, at least on this board....





Cz

[psyche101]

turbonium, on 03 March 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

A reliable witness would be a person who reports seeing a few stars. It is also a reliable indicator of a witness who is not beyond LEO..

They did report stars, you feel the descriptions were not flamboyant enough.

[skyeagle409]

psyche101, on 06 March 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

They did report stars, you feel the descriptions were not flamboyant enough.

A large hammer can be used to make anyone see stars, even astronauts.

[Frank Merton]

This idea that there was a massive US conspiracy to make it look like men had gone to the moon was new to me and when I saw it I ignored it and didn't follow the thread.  I did get caught up in it once on another thread and I fear got a little rude about it when I saw where he was going.

[psyche101]

skyeagle409, on 06 March 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

A large hammer can be used to make anyone see stars, even astronauts.

I bet it would be handy helping cure CT'ers as well!