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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#1846    Van Gorp

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 06:57 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 06 November 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

The Batavi and Cananefates split of from the Chatti who lived in Hessen and northern Bavaria (Bayern), Hessen being a German state which is named after them.

Both the Cananefates and Batavi moved west, and the Cananefates settled near the Dutch coast. Socalled Roman milestones with their tribal name inscribed on them proves that's where the CF finally ended up.

From what I read the Chatti were quite a powerfull tribe, and later on occupied more land they initially had. Or maube they already occupied more land or were trying to settle elsewhere under the same name.

==

Words have meanings, yes, and I showed you, but I prefer to stick to ancient languages when being serious and not use MODERN Dutch or Flemmish. Not that I am always serious... :P

Some Chatti travelled west, became known as the Batavi and Cananefates, and some ended up near Katwijk, and others even ended up in England and Scotland.

Chatti-vik, the area the Chatti settled in, sounds more plausable then your 'area near the hole' ("wijk bij het gat".

But that's just me.

.

I understand.

For me it can point in that case to an exit of a river (and this we call now 'monding' (a mouth) i just wondered -> so I will stop here to associate further if i don't want to loose my appetite with my own associations :-).


#1847    Abramelin

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:18 PM

View PostVan Gorp, on 06 November 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

I understand.

For me it can point in that case to an exit of a river (and this we call now 'monding' (a mouth) i just wondered -> so I will stop here to associate further if i don't want to loose my appetite with my own associations :-).

LOL, instead of thinking of the bottom exit, think of the top entrance: the mouth.

You know that many placenames here in the Netherlands have an archaic form of the word 'mouth' in them: IJmuiden, Muiden, Amuthon (Emden), IJselmuiden, IJsselmonde, and so on. And that's because of the fact they are located near the 'mouth' of a river, the place where a river meets the sea or a lake.

So nothing to do with rear sphincters at all. I hope that info will improve your appetite.

Well, unless you thought of a river as an open-air sewer. But that is the case in modern times with overpopulated countries, and most probably was not the case in ancient times.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 06 November 2012 - 08:22 PM.


#1848    Abramelin

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:15 PM

People, this whole thread is nothing but a course in creative thinking, and having a lot of fun while doing it.

OK, so I mentioned Kadik, the OLB name for Cadiz.

I know Puzz made the next connection already long ago, but I noticed an interesting detail...

Here it goes.

Cadiz:

Gadir (Phoenician: גדר), the original name given to the outpost established here by the Phoenicians, means "wall, compound", or, more generally, "walled stronghold". The Punic dialect lent this word, along with many others, to the Berber languages, where it was nativised as agadir meaning "wall" in Tamazight and "fortified granary" in Shilha; it appears as a common place name in North Africa. The name of the Israeli town of Gedera has a similar etymology.

Later, the city became known by a similar Attic Greek form of the Phoenician name, τὰ Γάδειρα (Gádeira). In Ionic Greek, the name is spelled slightly differently, Γήδειρα (Gḗdeira). This spelling appears in the histories written by Herodotus. Rarely, the name is spelled ἡ Γαδείρα (Gadeíra), as, for example, in the writings of Eratosthenes (as attested by Stephanus of Byzantium).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadiz

Attic? What does the OLB have to say about 'Attic'?


Then we built a citadel at an hour’s distance from the harbour. By the advice of Min-erva it was called Athens, because, she said, those who come after us ought to know that we are not here by cunning or violence, but were received as friends (Sandbach: = âtha).

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bb

So âtha is Old Fryan for 'friend.


Attica (Greek: Αττική, Attikí; [atiˈci]) is an historical region of Greece, which includes Athens, the current capital of Greece. The historical region is centered on the Attic peninsula, which projects into the Aegean Sea. The Attica region, the modern administrative region of Greece, is more extensive than the historical region and includes several islands and part of the Peloponnese.

The history of Attica is tightly linked with that of Athens, which, from the classical period, was one of the most important cities in the ancient world.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attica

So, someone who studied classical Greek would have known of the Attic Greek dialect. If that 'someone' happened to be someone who studied Old Frisian, and if that someone wanted the Frisians to be.... well, what the OLB portrays them to be, then that someone would have considered the Attic dialect to be of importance, based on nothing but "âtha" being an old Frisian word for 'friend'.

Here we go again:

gather (v.)
O.E. gadrian, gædrian "unite, agree, assemble; gather, collect, store up," used of flowers, thoughts, persons; from P.Gmc. *gadurojan "bring together, unite" (cf. O.E. gæd "fellowship, companionship," gædeling "companion;" M.L.G. gadderen; O.Fris. gaderia; Du. gaderen "to gather," gade "spouse;" Ger. Gatte "husband;" Goth. gadiliggs), from PIE *ghedh- "to unite, join" (see good (adj.). Change of spelling from -d- to -th- is 1500s, reflecting earlier change in pronunciation.

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none
http://www.etymologi...oord/vergaderen

From the Old Frisian dictionary:

gad-er-ia 14, gad-ur-ia, gad-r-ia, afries., sw. V. (2): nhd. sammeln, vereinigen; ne.
gather
(V.), unite; Vw.: s. for-*, ur-, wi-ther-; Hw.: vgl. ae. gadrian, gaderian; Q.:
E, S, W, R, H, AA 56; E.: s. gad-er; W.: nfries. gearjen, V., sammeln;


http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-G.pdf

There we have it: the Attic Greek name for Cadiz was Gádeira
The Old Frisian word for 'gather' was gaderia.

The Attic Greek name for Cadiz, Gádeira, meaning "wall, compound", or, more generally, "walled stronghold" in Phoenician.
The Old Frisian name for 'gather', or 'keeping/getting things in one place/area is gaderia.

You won't have to be a genius to connect the dots in this case.

But the genius who created the OLB tried his luck with the later and medieval "KADIX" (Kadiks), and created the OLB KADIK.

Why? Because KADIK could be explained as "Ka(de) Dijk" or "Quay Dike", a combination of words that better explained the ancient Cadiz harbour.

I think I would have used the Old Frisian gaderia instead, butmaybe they considered that to be a too obvious clue.


#1849    Otharus

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:18 PM

Twelve is spelled TWILIF or TWÉLIF in OLB.

LIF = life or body
TWÉ = two

So twelve originally may have meant two-lives, thus one life being 6.
The sacred wheel of time (still so in India as Kalichakra; wheel of Kali) has 6 spokes.


#1850    Abramelin

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:31 PM

View PostOtharus, on 06 November 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

-1- I'm sure we have. Terps and hill-forts were built here too. These lands are only habitable with some sort of water management.

==

-2- Plural.

==

-3- So do Sé-kampar, Lith-hawar, Wit-kénings, Juttar, Anglar, Hér-lju, Sturii, etc.

==

-4- Naming is done by law since 1811, but many families had used the same name for many hundreds of years before that.
My own family name has been used as such for over a 1000 years (origin Switzerland/ Austria/ S-Germany).

-1- Terps and hill-forts have nothing to do with digging canals. They are nothing but artificial hills.

==

-2- Not plural. According to the OLB, most plurals end in -ar.

The -IN  or -AN or -EN ending of a noun is a modern Dutch/Germanic form of a plural.

==

-3- There you go: -AR. -AR, -S, -AR -... and the rest is Roman endings.

The only other plural ending the OLB uses is -NE.

But never -EN or -IN.

==

-4- You are right: the first mentioning of my family name is in Antwerp, 13th century.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 06 November 2012 - 09:56 PM.


#1851    Otharus

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:40 PM

An etymological relationship beteen love, books and freedom (liberty)?

LJAFDE/ LJAVDE
liefde - dutch
liebe - german
love - english

LJAVE
lieve - dutch
liebe - german

LJAVER (also haver; oats in OLB)
liever - dutch
lieber - german

livre - french (book)
liber - latin
(cf. library - english)

délivrer - french
deliver - english
liberate - english
livereren - middle dutch
leveren - dutch

libertas - latin
liberty - english
liberté - french

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Varieties of love in the OLB

[00b/01] 2x
LJAWA ERVNÔMA. VMB VSA LJAWA ÉTHLA.S WILLE

[00b/04]
OCH LJAWE

[00b/17]
OCH LJAWA

[023/05]
THJU LJAFTE SINRA KÀMPONA MOT SIN SKÍLD WÉSA

[033/30]
HWÀT IK URVEN HÀV IS LJAFDE VR WISDOM. RJUCHT ÀND FRYDOM

[047/11]
AMONG THA GÀRS.SÉDUM HEDON WI NAVT ALENA. KÉREN. LJAVER ÀND BLÍDE

[072/27]
VMBE THAT HJU THA INHÉMAR SÁ FUL LIAFDE BIWÉSEN HÉDE

[080/19]
LJAFDE NE KV NÉN STEK LONGER NAVT FINDA ÀND ÉNDRACHT RUN ÉWÉI

[084/11]
FRYDOM. LJAFDE ÀND ÉNDRACHT SKILET FOLK IN HJARA WÁCH NÉMA

[094/03]
THET JUNGK-FOLK TÁCH SJONGANDE MITHA GÜRBÁM
ÀND THISSE OVER.FULDE LUFT MITH SINA LIAFLIKA ÁDAM

[104/10]
THÁ GVNG WRALDA TO ÀND WROCHTE IN HJRA MOD NIGUNG ÀND LIAVDE ANGGOST ÀND SKRIK

[133/29]
THÁ KÉM LJAFDE ÀND ÀFTERNÉI SEND WI MAN ÀND WIF WRDEN

[137/12]
FALXE SKOM. THER ALLERWÉIKES KVAD DVAT AN THA LJAVDE

[137/18]
NIMMAN HOVAT HIT TO DVANDE FORI ENNEN OTHERA.
HIT NE SÍ THÀT ET BI MÉNA WILLA JEF UT LJAVADE SKÉD

[137/21]
HI LÉRDE THÀT NIMMAN IN HJARA WAND MACHTE FROTA
VMBE GOLD HER SILVER NER KESTLIKA STÉNA
HWÉR NID AN KLÍWATH ÀND LJAVDE FON FLJUTH

[138/03]
É.LIKA DÉLA IS THA GRÁTESTE WITSKIP THÉR TID VS LÉRA MÉI.
THÉRVMBE THÀT HJU ÀRGENESE FON JRTHA WÉRATH ÀND LJAVDE FETH

[138/11]
SIN FRYASKA FRJUND HÉTE HIM BUDA. VMBE THAT HI IN SIN HÁVAD EN SKÀT FON WISDOM HÉDE
ÀND IN SIN HIRT EN SKÀT FON LJAVDE

[142/22]
FON THRJU WORDA SKILUN VSA ÀFTERKVMANDE AN HJARA LJUDA ÀND SLÁVONA THA BITHJUTNESSE LÉRA.
HJA SEND. MÉNA LJAVDA . FRYHÉD ÀND RJUCHT

[155/11]
THAHWILA A.DEL TO TEX.LÁND INNA LÉRE WÉRE.
WAS THÉR TEFTA EN ÉLLE LJAWE FÁM IN VPPER BURCH

[155/18]
A.DEL HÉDE HJA LJAF KRÉJEN ÀND HJU HÉDE A.DEL LJAF

[160/15]
LJAFDE IS FLJUCHT ÀND HORDON SIT MITH NÍD AN TÉFEL

[167/21]
LJAFLIKA STRÉKA HWÉRAN THET ÁG FORBONDEN BILÍWET


#1852    Abramelin

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:00 PM

These have nothing to do with love or liberty:

livre - french (book)
liber - latin
(cf. library - english)

délivrer - french
deliver - english
livereren - middle dutch
leveren - dutch

Think 'leaf', part of a plant.

In ancient times people used dried leafs to write a message on because paper was expensive.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 06 November 2012 - 10:01 PM.


#1853    Van Gorp

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:12 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 06 November 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

LOL, instead of thinking of the bottom exit, think of the top entrance: the mouth.

You know that many placenames here in the Netherlands have an archaic form of the word 'mouth' in them: IJmuiden, Muiden, Amuthon (Emden), IJselmuiden, IJsselmonde, and so on. And that's because of the fact they are located near the 'mouth' of a river, the place where a river meets the sea or a lake.

So nothing to do with rear sphincters at all. I hope that info will improve your appetite.

Well, unless you thought of a river as an open-air sewer. But that is the case in modern times with overpopulated countries, and most probably was not the case in ancient times.

.

Thnx Abe, read your post: indeed a lot of 'muidens' and had my diner with appetite :-)
After, I took the risk to investigate further and found also some 'gats' in approx meaning of 'muide': Brielse Gat, Zennegat, Hellegat, ...

Some info: http://users.skynet....ielhellegat.htm

Belangrijk in de naam is het suffix “gat”. Een “gat” is een opening of toegang tot iets (veld, omheining, afsluiting, ..). Een “gat” betekent echter ook de monding van een kleinere rivier of beek in een grotere. Vanuit de grotere waterloop bekeken vaart men dan inderdaad een “gat” in. Een schoolvoorbeeld is het Zennegat: de monding van de Zenne in de Rupel. De monding van de Rupel in de Schelde noemde men het Wiel of het Mechels Gat. Samen met het Gat van Eikevliet (de monding van de Vliet in de Rupel), de Kortgaeten (mogelijk de monding van de Wullebeek) en het Oostgat (mogelijk de monding van het Langwiel in de Rupel) te Niel, het Watergat en Schaegaet te Ruisbroek, het Merlegate te Puurs, het Ekkersgat te Rumst, ontmoet men in de omgeving van de Rupel een sterke aanwezigheid van dergelijke “gaten”. Het is niet uitgesloten dat deze toponiemen een taalkundige echo zijn van de Vikingen die zeker op de Rupel hebben geopereerd. Vergelijk met het Engelse “gate” (poort, toegang) en het Scandinaafse “gate” (straat, weg).Ter vervollediging volgt hierbij nog een reeks van “gat” toponiemen: in Zeeland het Lapscheurse Gat, het Coxyse Gat, het Haantjesgat, het Saeftinger Gat, het Brouwershavense Gat, het Veerse Gat: allemaal uitwateringen in de Westerschelde. Ook het Kattegat in Denemarken hoort bij deze reeks.

The last one is a nice coincidence for the topic: Kattegat, Denemark.  Don't know the history behind it yet, have to look.  Maybe you have some more info.


#1854    Abramelin

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:34 AM

OK, so there appear to be a couple of 'gats' here.

The Kategat has a different etymology, as I explained here:
http://www.unexplain...40#entry3681272

Kattegat. Strait, eastern North Sea. The name of the strait between Denmark and Sweden derives from Old Norse kati, "boat", and gata, "way," "strait," denoting a navigable channel. The name is popularly explained as meaning "cat's throat," as if from Danish kat or Swedish katt, "cat," and the former French name for the strait was Trou de Chat ("cat's hole") as a mistranslation of the original.

And by trying to find that post, I found another old post of mine:



.

Edited by Abramelin, 07 November 2012 - 03:49 AM.


#1855    Abramelin

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:38 AM

There was an old place in The Netherlands that was called Catualium , http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catualium

Catualium is a celticized form of a German placename, a name made up from haþu- (battle, fight) and walla- (shore).

So, if these Chatti derived their name from Old German haþu, then their name could mean something like 'warriors'.

haþu :
http://www.koeblerge...terbuch1980.pdf



http://www.unexplain...40#entry3681364

Couldn't be better, right?

I said the name Batavi could mean 'warriors' (based on 'badwa' meaning battle), and the name of main tribe they split off from, the Chatti, could also mean 'warriors'.


#1856    Abramelin

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:23 AM

View PostOtharus, on 06 November 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

Twelve is spelled TWILIF or TWÉLIF in OLB.

LIF = life or body
TWÉ = two

So twelve originally may have meant two-lives, thus one life being 6.
The sacred wheel of time (still so in India as Kalichakra; wheel of Kali) has 6 spokes.

eleven
c.1200, elleovene, from O.E. endleofan, lit. "one left" (over ten), from P.Gmc. *ainlif- (cf. O.S. elleban, O.Fris. andlova, Du. elf, O.H.G. einlif, Ger. elf, O.N. ellifu, Goth. ainlif), a compound of *ain "one" (see one) + PIE *leikw- "leave, remain" (cf. Gk. leipein "to leave behind;" see relinquish).

    Viking survivors who escaped an Anglo-Saxon victory were daroþa laf "the leavings of spears," while hamora laf "the leavings of hammers" was an Old English kenning for "swords" (both from "The Battle of Brunanburgh"). Twelve reflects the same formation; outside Germanic the only instance of this formation is in Lithuanian, which uses it all the way to 19 (vienio-lika "eleven," dvy-lika "twelve," try-lika "thirteen," keturio-lika "fourteen," etc.).

http://www.etymonlin...owed_in_frame=0

twelve
O.E. twelf, lit. "two left" (over ten), from P.Gmc. *twa-lif-, a compound of the root of two + *lif-, root of the verb leave (see eleven). Cf. O.S. twelif, O.N. tolf, O.Fris. twelef, M.Du. twalef, Du. twaalf, O.H.G. zwelif, Ger. zwölf, Goth. twalif. Outside Germanic, an analogous formation is Lith. dvylika, with second element -lika "left over."

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none


#1857    Otharus

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:42 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 06 November 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

These have nothing to do with love or liberty:
livre - french (book)
liber - latin
(cf. library - english)

Liber - Livre I will leave for later, but Liver - Lever is easy to prove:

Quote

délivrer - french
deliver - english
livereren - middle dutch
leveren - dutch

LIVEREREN
Middelnederlandsch Woordenboek: livereren
Oudste attestatie: Maldegem, ?Oost-Vlaanderen, 1286
Aangetroffen spelling: liuere(e)r-
Etymologie: Uit Ofra. livrer 'bevrijden; (terug)geven; voorzien (in)' (Greimas).
Korte betekenis: overhandigen
1. Overhandigen, (terug)geven. In de eerste aanh. meer bep.: betalen.


source: gtb.inl.nl

So to liberate and to deliver have the same origin.


#1858    Otharus

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:01 AM

How LIF lives forth (what is left of LIF) in Dutch, English, Frisian and German

D: lijf - liefde - leven. - lover. - lever - lof... - geloven - beloven
E: life - love.. - live.. - leaf.. - liver - lavish - beleave - ?
F: liif - leafde - libben - ?..... - lever - lof... - leauwe. - belove
G: leib - liebe. - leben. - laub.. - leber - lob... - glauben - geloben


Edited by Otharus, 07 November 2012 - 08:25 AM.


#1859    Abramelin

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:06 AM

View PostOtharus, on 07 November 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Liber - Livre I will leave for later, but Liver - Lever is easy to prove:


View PostAbramelin, on 06 November 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

These have nothing to do with love or liberty:

livre - french (book)
liber - latin
(cf. library - english)


Think 'leaf', part of a plant.

In ancient times people used dried leafs to write a message on because paper was expensive.


.

The Dutch word "loof" (pronounced like 'loaf') means foliage, but it also used to mean leaf.

And an old Dutch word is "lover" (pronounced like 'loaver') or "lovre", which was the plural of 'loof'.

http://www.etymologi...trefwoord/loof1


#1860    Abramelin

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:23 AM

This might come in handy:

An etymological dictionary of the French language (1873)
http://archive.org/s...age/n8/mode/1up





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