4020 replies to this topic

[Abramelin]

What we need here is a cryptographer.

Someone who is able to find hidden messages in texts.

I have this strong feeling that the answer lies in some secret code, hidden in the text.

And you can bet I have tried to find it, for years now.

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Edited by Abramelin, 22 November 2012 - 09:41 PM.

[NO-ID-EA]

I can maybe see why you may think so........the oppressive church in previous times forcing people to form secret societies.......that was certainly a good thread from the "L"

but if you think OLB is a coded message it would be so much more impressive than "L"s unreadable text , to be an understandable book , in a true known language that also encompasses a hidden code  , that would be an unbelieveable feat.


however it does make me think more about the possibility of 4 or 5 guys getting together in some secret cabal to  invent a historical story, seeing as this sort of thing seems to have been more common in 18th/19th C

Have you read any of Anatoly T FomenKo's   History,fiction or Science ? books Abe ????

Edited by NO-ID-EA, 22 November 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[Abramelin]

NO-ID-EA, on 22 November 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

I can maybe see why you may think so........the oppressive church in previous times forcing people to form secret societies.......that was certainly a good thread from the "L"

but if you think OLB is a coded message it would be so much more impressive than "L"s unreadable text , to be an understandable book , in a true known language that also encompasses a hidden code  , that would be an unbelieveable feat.


however it does make me think more about the possibility of 4 or 5 guys getting together in some secret cabal to  invent a historical story, seeing as this sort of thing seems to have been more common in 18th/19th C

Have you read any of Anatoly T FomenKo's   History,fiction or Science ? books Abe ????

I read some of Fomenko's work online, and I don't think much of it. He (and others) accuse historians of leaving out unwanted things and at the same time does it himself to 'prove' his pet theory.

=

There are a couple of reasons why I had to think of some 'hidden message' in the OLB.

First is Over de Linden's connection with/interest in Freemasonry

Second is that every page of the OLB consists of 32 lines, and 2 pages appear to be missing.
The OLB alphabet consists of 32 letters, while it actually uses 34:  the ;letters -W- and -GS- , though used, do not show up in the explaining letter sheet.

Maybe, again, all this is just another coincidence, sure.

Maybe not.

[Abramelin]

Abramelin, on 23 November 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

There are a couple of reasons why I had to think of some 'hidden message' in the OLB.

First is Over de Linden's connection with/interest in Freemasonry

Second is that every page of the OLB consists of 32 lines, and 2 pages appear to be missing.
The OLB alphabet consists of 32 letters, while it actually uses 34:  the ;letters -W- and -GS- , though used, do not show up in the explaining letter sheet.

Maybe, again, all this is just another coincidence, sure.

Maybe not.

THE MYSTERIES OF THE KABBALAH
AND
FREEMASONRY

Posted May, 1999

A Paper by Bro. Raymond L. Schwartz, Harmony Lodge No. 8, Newton, New Jersey, U. S. A.

Winner of the 1989 Phoenix Prize Competition


The Hebrew alphabet has 32 letters, which also serve as numbers. Some Kabbalists manipulate words and numbers for explaining much about the universe and the works of God. The number 32 denotes the number of degrees in the Scottish Rite. The Hebrew letters Yod, Heh, and Vav are an important symbol in the Royal Arch degree. Hebraically, these letters form the name of God and this is also a magnificent centerpiece of the Royal Arch degree. There is no question that the Kabbalistic En-Sof and the masonic manipulation of these letters are conceptually related.

The Kabbalists argue that there are 32 paths of widsom, which lead to knowledge about God. It is interesting to note that the Babylonia version of the Talmud has 32 tractates. Again, the number 32 is a significant feature in both the Kabbalah and Freemasonry.

http://www.2be1ask1....y/kabbalah.html


The Number "32" : is also very important in Freemasonry. There were only 32 Degrees in the
Scottish Rite,, until Albert Pike introduced the 33rd Degree in 1832. Since then, "33" has become very
important. But, still there are signs of the "32" in our society. For instance water liquefies after "32"
Degrees. Was Fahrenheit a Mason? Probably. Where did we get the idea of "Degrees" to measure heat.
I think it had something to do with Jaques De Moley being burned at the stake in 1314. The "Heat" of
fire would later be measured in degrees. Unless someone can point out that they used the term
"Degrees" to measure heat back in the 1100's and 1200's, which I highly doubt.

http://www.encognitive.com/node/10270
http://www.theforbid...ntrol_world.htm

http://www.transform...onic_rings.html

[NO-ID-EA]

Abramelin, on 23 November 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

I read some of Fomenko's work online, and I don't think much of it. He (and others) accuse historians of leaving out unwanted things and at the same time does it himself to 'prove' his pet theory.

=

There are a couple of reasons why I had to think of some 'hidden message' in the OLB.

First is Over de Linden's connection with/interest in Freemasonry

Second is that every page of the OLB consists of 32 lines, and 2 pages appear to be missing.
The OLB alphabet consists of 32 letters, while it actually uses 34:  the ;letters -W- and -GS- , though used, do not show up in the explaining letter sheet.

Maybe, again, all this is just another coincidence, sure.

Maybe not.

Fomenko definitely has a problem with Scaligers chronology..........but if he is right in his book 4 about Rome,Britain, Troy etc all occuring much later in history than admitted

and that Europe was overrun by the Monguls.. who were the Rus-sians...... who then dominated Europe for a couple of centuries

he seems to think once the Mongul empire collapsed, European Elites got together to carve up Europe between themselves , and re-wrote the history books to remove the facts........leaving place names like Rosshire , Ross Common behind.

This would be a possible reason why a book like OLB , has to be deemed a fraud , because if they admit the earlier history, they have to then explain the missing years while we were under the Rus

[Abramelin]

He thinks Jesus was born somewhere in the 10th or 11th century AD, and he had a lot more crazy ideas.

If we have to believe him, thousands of years of history should be crammed into a couple of recent ages.

We should also forget about radiocarbon dating, and so on.

You know I don't believe the OLB MS (or the narrative itself) is as old as it purports to be, but compared to Fomenko's ideas, the OLB is as sane as you can hope for.

You know, using many posh (here: 'specialists' words) words, using lots of conspiracy theories, leaving out facts that you 'cannot use', moaning about how you are being 'silenced' by 'conservative' scientists (they don't, btw), is to me a sign you need psychological tactics to make the gullible buy your book.

However, I do agree: maybe the commonly accepted historical chronology is not a 100 % correct, but this guy is just fantasizing and corrupting facts to a degree even a Von Däniken would feel ashamed of.

But maybe Von Däniken is just not as smart as this Fomenko apparently is.


I think bringing up a guy like Fomenko will not do anything good to this thread.

It already randomly jumps through the alphabet,  but Fomenko's crazy ideas will not help anyone  finding out if the OLB is authentic or fake.

+++++++

EDIT:

Not being arrogant here, but I think I found something - another amazing coincidence perhaps, that I really would like some answers to.

The number 32 in Freemasonry.

COdL was into Freemasonry, the most important number in FM is 32, the number of lines per page in the OLB is 32, the number of letters in the letter sheet is 32, 2 pages are lost, 2 letters/characters are 'lost'.

Just saying.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 24 November 2012 - 12:24 AM.

[Van Gorp]

NO-ID-EA, on 23 November 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

Fomenko definitely has a problem with Scaligers chronology..........but if he is right in his book 4 about Rome,Britain, Troy etc all occuring much later in history than admitted

and that Europe was overrun by the Monguls.. who were the Rus-sians...... who then dominated Europe for a couple of centuries

he seems to think once the Mongul empire collapsed, European Elites got together to carve up Europe between themselves , and re-wrote the history books to remove the facts........leaving place names like Rosshire , Ross Common behind.

This would be a possible reason why a book like OLB , has to be deemed a fraud , because if they admit the earlier history, they have to then explain the missing years while we were under the Rus

Fomenko can be right by assuming that much of ‘ancient’ history is a projection of less old middleage events.

How he all fills in the details is a second question, you can have your own idea’s about it and maybe have even better: but the general statement is something to consider without being labeled ‘crazy’.
General History: “More fiction than science”, Abe you should change your banner  :-)

[Abramelin]

Although Fomenko is a well-respected mathematician his historical theories have been universally rejected by mainstream scholars, who brand them as pseudoscience. Russian critics tended to see Fomenko's New Chronology as "an embarrassment and a potent symbol of the depths to which the Russian academy and society have generally sunk ... since the fall of Communism". Western critics see his views as part of a renewed Russian imperial ideology, "keeping alive an imperial consciousness and secular messianism in Russia".

In 2004 Anatoly Fomenko with his coauthor Gleb Nosovsky were awarded for their books on "New Chronology" the anti-prize of the Moscow International Book Fair called "Abzatz" (literally 'paragraph', a euphemism for a vulgar Russian word meaning disaster or fiasco) in the category "Esteemed nonsense" ("Pochotnaya bezgramota") awarded for the worst book published in Russia.

Critics have accused Fomenko of altering the data to improve the fit with his ideas and have noted that he violates a key rule of statistics by selecting matches from the historical record which support his chronology, while ignoring those which do not, creating artificial, better-than-chance correlations, and that these practices undermine Fomenko's statistical arguments. The new chronology was given a comprehensive critical analysis in a round table on "The 'Myths' of New Chronology" chaired by the dean of the department of history of Moscow State University in December 1999. One of the participants in that round table, the distinguished Russian archaeologist, Valentin Yanin, compared Fomenko's work to "the sleight of hand trickery of a David Copperfield".

James Billington, formerly professor of Russian history at Harvard and Princeton and currently the Librarian of Congress placed Fomenko's work within the context of the political movement of Eurasianism, which sought to tie Russian history closely to that of its Asian neighbors. Billington describes Fomenko as ascribing the belief in past hostility between Russia and the Mongols to the influence of Western historians. Thus, by Fomenko's chronology, "Russia and Turkey are parts of a previously single empire." A French reviewer of Billington's book noted approvingly his concern with the phantasmagorical conceptions of Fomenko about the global "new chronology".

H.G. van Bueren, professor emeritus of astronomy at the University of Utrecht, concluded his scathing review of Fomenko's work on the application of mathematics and astronomy to historical data as follows:

"It is surprising, to say the least, that a well-known (Dutch) publisher could produce an expensive book of such doubtful intellectual value, of which the only good word that can be said is that it contains an enormous amount of factual historical material, untidily ordered, true; badly written, yes; mixed-up with conjectural nonsense, sure; but still, much useful stuff. For the rest of the book is absolutely worthless. It reminds one of the early Soviet attempts to produce tendentious science (Lysenko!), of polywater, of cold fusion, and of modern creationism. In brief: a useless and misleading book."

http://en.wikipedia....enko)#Reception


==

What's wrong with my banner??

.

Edited by Abramelin, 24 November 2012 - 11:58 AM.

[Van Gorp]

Just a joke, related to Fomenko's title 'History, fiction or science'.

[Abramelin]

Van Gorp, on 24 November 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Just a joke, related to Fomenko's title 'History, fiction or science'.

Well, then that is a joke I don't get.

A joke about a crow?

[Van Gorp]

Abramelin, on 24 November 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

Well, then that is a joke I don't get.

A joke about a crow?

I mean this banner:
Science in general and History in particular - links

But now you mention, you like crows?

[Abramelin]

That's not a 'banner' Van Gorp, that is a link to my blog in my signature. I thought you meant my avatar (the image you see left of a post).

And yes, I like crows: check my profile for the link to my blog about crows/ravens.


+++++


Freemasonry again:


The OLB letter sheet in the original MS:


The OLB letter sheet according to Ottema:


Notice the OLB letter for -G- ... (see Ottema's letter sheet). Cornelis Over de Linden (see original -  brown- sheet) made a mistake, and instead of writing a mirrored -D- he almost wrote a capital G.

-G- / -D- is short for GOD.


Ottema added the letter for -GS- , but still forgot about the letter -W- which does show up many times in the OLB, and is a true letter, not a double -V- .

The letter -G- is used in Masonic symbology, and it stands for God or Geometry.



These things were not 'mistakes', they were hints.


Check this Masonic site:

http://healdsburg-fr...son.com/?p=1321

And this drawing by Leonardo Da Vinci on that same site:




In the top/left of that page with Leonardo's drawing you can see one of Otharus' former avatars.


Of course I am not the first one to discover these hidden links to Freemasonry:

Het Oera Linda bok een maçonniek document?
("The Oera Linda Book, a Masonic document?")

http://books.google....AAJ&redir_esc=y

.

Edited by Abramelin, 25 November 2012 - 06:38 PM.

[Abramelin]

In light of the different branches of Freemasonry and their respective lodges, there are different types of Masonic rings that connect with specific symbolic meanings.

The letter “G” on a Masonic ring can represent God or even Geometry. Another common symbol found on a ring is the skull and cross bones, symbolic of memento mori, or death. Having the sun on a ring can symbolize that the ring bearer is a Past Master of the lodge. Freemasons are devoted to Geometry and three squares on some Masonic rings would represent Euclid’s 47th Proposition in Geometry.

One of the most recognizable symbols on Masonic rings is the All Seeing Eye of Providence indicating the belief that God is always watching. Open book imagery on some rings is symbolic of the quest for knowledge by Freemasons. Masonic rings commonly have tools on them such as the Trowel and Plumb Level which represent various qualities one should have in life. As Freemasons ascend to higher levels in the fraternity, a ring can be purchased to commemorate the event. Common degrees for which rings are given are the 14th, 32nd, and 33rd degrees.

An old Masonic Motto from the 1700's “Aude, Vide, Tace,” is translated to mean “Know, Dare, Be Silent,” can be found on many Masonic rings. In addition, the declaration “In Hoc Signo Vinces,” meaning “By this, be victorious,” is another common inscription. An Eagle or Double Eagle with wings pointed up carries significance for a particular degree and rite of Masonry whereas the same eagle with downward pointed wings would be for a different rite and degree. An Acacia Sprig on some Masonic rings is symbolic of Masonic ritual and hope.

http://intuitivemean...-masonic-rings/
https://www.google.n...BMMb-4QSsjoGQAg


"God is always watching"........ remember the word "WAK"? It means, 'watch, look out, vigil.

WATCH.

I have always wondered why that word, WAK, shows up several times in the OLB. And what should we 'watch'.

I think it's an abbreviation of one of the several 3 letter abbreviations used by the Masons, and I once posted about an astronomical explanation (the three letters were the first letters of two main constellations around the Little Dipper (Kroder.) plus the first letter of the Kroder :

http://www.unexplain...65#entry4149537

+++

EDIT:

The Over de Linden coat of arms COdL created, and notice the word WAK (using OLB script) at the bottom of the coat of arms.




.

Edited by Abramelin, 25 November 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[Van Gorp]

Hi Otharus,

Haven't heard of you much since the change of your avatar.
Maybe in full preperation of your studies, all the luk.

But if you have some time, maybe you are well placed now to shed some light.
Do you have the feeling there is a clear general 'philosophical' (or whatever you name it) tendency in OLB that can be linked with some other during history that are studied in that field?

[NO-ID-EA]

Abe you have said a couple of times W is missing , but are you sure that 9th yule wheel letter is not the W , looks like in ottema's sheet , he thinks it is??