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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#2086    Abramelin

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:36 PM

You know that is bs, right? I hope you do, lol.

Die-Uit = That-Out.


#2087    Van Gorp

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:57 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 30 November 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

You know that is bs, right? I hope you do, lol.

Die-Uit = That-Out.

Hi Abe, we agree talking about people right?

So for me it is more in the sense of generalised of "Those-Out" (in the example of Dana it is Die-Uit-de Dana (region) and I'm not joking :-)
In Dutch when presenting to each other, we say: "Hello nice to meat you, I'm Van Gorp uit Gorp, and you?"
Willing to learn, so what else could be a meaningfull explanation of the forming of that particular word that can mean 'People'?


#2088    Abramelin

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:15 AM

"Tuatha De Dannan"....

"DE" means 'god(dess)', "DANANN" means 'Dana'.

So you think "Tuatha" means "those out"? "Those out of goddess Dana"?

Nah.

it's the People of Dana, or Dana's People.

Think Jesus' People, Followers of Jesus, and so on.


#2089    Otharus

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:02 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 30 November 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

Sometimes words with totally different origins and meanings evolve into words that look very alike.

And sometimes words with exactly the same origin and meaning devolve into words that seem totally different.

A recent example.
Before the thirties the word Führer had a neutral meaning. It meant the same everywhere: leader, guide.
Since Hitler got power it started to have diverging meanings; to some it sounded very positive (god-given) for others the opposite (evil-incarnate).

That's how OD, which is something good in North Europe (think 'ode'), may have got to mean the root of 'hate' in Latin.

Etymologists are not sure about THJUD either.

M. Philippa e.a. (2003-2009) Etymologisch Woordenboek van het Nederlands:

Quote

duiden ww. ‘uitleggen, vertalen; betekenen’ [...]

Het woord wordt vaak in verband gebracht met pgm. *þeuðō- ‘volk’, zie diets,
en zou dan letterlijk moeten betekenen ‘voor het volk verklaren, vertalen, duidelijk maken’.

Semantisch gezien kan het echter geen afleiding van dat woord zijn.  

Daarom is vermoedelijk een ander woord secundair op *þeuðō- betrokken;
dat zou het bn. *þeuþa- ‘goed’ kunnen zijn (waaruit mnl. ge-diede ‘voorkomend, welwillend’).

Het werkwoord zal dan ‘goed, begrijpelijk maken’ betekenen. Zie ook beduiden; duidelijk.
Mnd. düden; ohd. diuten ‘verklaren, betekenen, vertalen’ (nhd. deuten);
ofri. bi-thiuda ‘verklaren’ (nfri. tsjutte);
oe. ge-ðiodan ‘vertalen’;
on. þýða ‘uitleggen, betekenen’ (nzw. tyda ‘duiden’);
< pgm. *þeuþjan- ‘begrijpelijk maken’, bij pgm. *þeuþa- ‘goed’ (EWgP 621-23).

Bij pgm. *þeuþa- ook os. githiudo ‘gepast’ en mnd. dieden ‘helpen’;
oe. geþiede ‘goed, deugdzaam’ en geþiedan ‘deelnemen; helpen’;
on. þýðr ‘vriendelijk’; got. þiuþ ‘goed’.

De homonymie met vormen die horen bij pgm. *þeuðō- ‘volk’ maakt de verdere etymologie moeilijk.

Misschien is er verband met pie. *teu- ‘vriendelijk bezien’ (IEW 1079-80).


"Semantisch gezien kan het echter geen afleiding van dat woord zijn."
=> This does not mean that both meanings can not have a shared origin.

~

Note that these names of Merovingean kings are also related:

1) Theuderik/ Diederik (c.485 - c.533), married to Suavegotha [later Diederik devolved into Dirk, Dick]

2a) son: Theudebert/ Thibert/ Théodebert (c.533 - c.547), married to Deuteria
2b) daughter: Theodechild

3) son: Theudebald/ Theudowald/ Theobald/ Thibaud (c.537 - 555), married to Waldrada

~

Possibly, this is how 'tsjoed' (also) came to mean evil, bad in the Frisian language.

yn goede en yn tsjoede dagen = in good and in bad days

Edited by Otharus, 01 December 2012 - 09:15 AM.


#2090    Otharus

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:48 AM

I can see clearly now how THJUD (deut, duidt, diet, etc.) is even related to our very (grammatic) articles (german: Artikel/ dutch: lidwoorden) the, de, die (etc.).

In OLB and oldfrisian: THJU.
Also used in combination, for example TILTHJU = opdat, zodat.

Those words are pointers, indicators, signifiers or whatever the linguistic term is (duidwoorden, deutwörter?).

No time to explain better, I just wanted to be the first to have said this.
:whistle:


#2091    The Puzzler

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:33 PM

View PostOtharus, on 30 November 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

In OLB the word "THJUD" is also used in both meanings.
I already gave the quotes where it meant 'duiden' (to mean, show, explain etc.).

Here are the ones where it means people:

[039/20] Minno's Skrifta
THA FORSTA ÀND PRESTERA KÉMON BÁRJA THAT WI HJARA TJVTH OVER HÉRICH MAKAD HÉDE
ÀND THÀT FOLK KÉM TO VS VMBE HUL ÀND SKUL
[O+S p.57]
De vorsten en priesteren kwamen en gaven voor dat wij hunne onderdanen oproerig gemaakt hadden,
en het volk kwam tot ons om heul en schut te vragen.
The priests and the princes declared that we had excited their subjects to rebellion,
and the people appealed to us for aid and protection.

[097/10] Burchfám's Love
THA FÉRHÉMANDA HÉRA KÉMON HJARA THJUD ASKJA
[O+S p.135]
De uitheemsche heeren kwamen hunne lieden opeischen;
The foreign lords came to look after their people,

[113/12] Apollánja's Fárt
WI NE SKILUN NÉN BIHOF LONGER NAVT NÀVE AN THÀT WLA THJUD
[O+S p.155]
wij zullen geen behoefte langer hebben aan dat vuile volk.
we shall have no occasion to deal with those nasty people.

thiæ-d

(2), afries., st. F. (æ): Vw.: s. thiõ-d

thiæ-d-a

* 1 und häufiger?, thið-d-a, afries., sw. V. (1): nhd. deuten; ne. interpret;

Vw.: s. bi-; Hw.: vgl. an. þ‘da (3), ae. *þíedan (1), ahd. diuten (1); Q.: S; E.:

germ. *þeudjan, sw. V., deuten; s. idg. *teutõ, F., Volk, Land, Pokorny 1084; vgl.

idg. *tÐu-, *týu-, *teøý-, *tøæ-, *tÈ-, *teøh
2-, V., schwellen, Pokorny 1080; L.: Hh

111b, Rh 1074b

thiæ-d-e

(1) 6, thiæ-th-e, afries., F.: nhd. Deutung, Auslegung; ne. interpretation;

E.: s. thiæ-d-a*; R.: to thiæ-d-e, afries., Adj.: nhd. deutsch, in der Volkssprache; ne.

in the own language; L.: Hh 111b, Hh 176, Rh 1075a


thiæ-d-isk

* 1 und häufiger?, thiæ-d-sk, afries., Adj.: nhd. deutsch; ne. German

(Adj.); Hw.: vgl. got. þiudiskæ, as. thiudisk*, ahd. diutisk*; E.: germ. *þeudiska-,

*þeudiskaz, Adj., völkisch; s. idg. *teutõ, F., Volk, Land, Pokorny 1084; vgl. idg.

*tÐu-, *týu-, *teøý-, *tøæ-, *tÈ-, *teøh
2-, V., schwellen, Pokorny 1080; L.: Hh 111b


http://www.koeblerge...h/afries-Th.pdf

Just thought I'd add that.

Also dire means bad.

--------------------------------------------------

I noticed karlis had posted this topic - English is a Scandinavian Language - Sensational new claims by linguist.
http://www.unexplain...howtopic=238381


Edited by The Puzzler, 01 December 2012 - 01:43 PM.

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#2092    Otharus

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:17 PM

The Greek words τόδε τι and τάδε

Die Form macht die Materie zu einem Einzelding, einem „Dies da“ (tode ti).
wikipedia/Metaphysik_Aristoteles

The Meaning of Tode Ti in the Categories [...]
In the latter usage, 'water' signifies a 'this something' (tode ti).

dissoiblogoi/meaning-of-tode-ti

Acts 21:11 DPro-ANP
BIB: χεῖρας εἶπεν Τάδε λέγει τὸ
NAS: and said, This is what the Holy
KJV: feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy
INT: hands said Thus says the

&
Revelation 2:1 DPro-ANP
BIB: ἐκκλησίας γράψον Τάδε λέγει ὁ
NAS: lampstands, says this:
KJV: write; These things saith
INT: church write These things says he who

(etc.)
biblesuite/tade

~

The Greek tode-ti and tade can simply be translated as dotte-die (that-which) and datte (that) from slang (oral) Dutch...


#2093    Abramelin

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:53 PM

Amber - Phoenicians - the Baltic:


The Baltic Lithuanian term for amber is Gintaras and Latvian Dzintars. They, and the Slavic jantar or Hungarian gyanta ('resin'), are thought to originate from Phoenician jainitar (sea-resin). While most Slavic languages, including Russian, Slovak, and Czech, retain the old Slavic word, in the Polish and Belarusian languages, jantar, while correct, is used very rarely (even considered archaic) and was replaced by the word bursztyn, deriving from the German term, Bernstein.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber



In Scandinavia the amber road probably gave rise to the thriving Nordic Bronze Age culture, bringing influences from the Mediterranean Sea to the northernmost countries of Europe. The Baltic Lithuanian term for amber is Gintaras and Latvian Dzintars. They and the Slavic jantar are thought to originate from Phoenician jainitar (sea-resin). However, while most Slavic languages, such as Russian and Czech, retain the old Slavic word, in the Polish language, despite still correct, it is used very rarely (even considered archaic) and was replaced by the word bursztyn deriving from the German analogue, Bernstein.

-

The amber collection is the richest from ancient world: Aquileia, in fact, was at the end of the so-called amber-route, coming from the Baltic sea through the Alps, the most important trade route from northern Europe to the Mediterranean sea. Amber was believed to have magic properties, and it was used for little statues, collars, rings, used as talismans.


http://www.allartlak...szins&Itemid=71

Acient Romans would associate amber colour with lynx`es urine – and call it lyncurium. Rubbed amber has a typical smell of ambra, which gave the Arabic name Anbar. It is also known as Jantar, coming from Lithuania and even earlier from Fenicians` Jainitar – the sea resin.

http://www.diamentum.nazwa.pl/AR2/ARObursztynieEN.swf



The material called amber has been associated with the Phoenicians for a very long time. The Greek poet named Homer has several references to the same material in the long epic poems called the Iliad and the Odyssey.

Homer tied this very firmly to the Phoenicians.
They are treated very much as the crafty Semites still being written about in European literature by such as William Shakespeare (16 th/17 th c. English), as when he describes Shylock the Jew in Merchant of Venice. Just how early this began is uncertain but many writers want Homer to have been as early as the 10 th c. B.C. If so, this means that the Phoenicians were trading amber before that date.

Joannes Richter (Spelling Thee, U and I 2006 & online) is probably the most comprehensive and up-to-date study of the ancient European trading in amber. It is very likely that it will remain the standard work on the subject for a while to come. He demonstrates that on distributional grounds, amber and tin in west Europe can be coupled. Even if Richter's lists are a little too full, this serves to illustrate that what Herodotus says on amber plus tin coming together from Atlantic-west Europe.

That amber came by way of the coasts of Europe is surely confirmed by the Greek term of elektron seemingly applied to the Frisian Isles as the Electrides. The native name of Glessum for the same islands was apparently known to the Romans as Glessaria: presumably, the Romans were after the same material.

--

Whether it will ever prove possible to more directly connect the proven cats of Iron Age date in Britain (as at Danebury [Hants] & sites in Wiltshire & the Scillies) plus another possible in Ireland at Crannog No.1 at Ballinderry (Offaly) remains moot. However, it is worth recalling what was said by the sources cited in "Phoenicians in East in East Africa: From "the Med. To the Red" about the way the cat spread and closely this coincides with Phoenician ships. Also observe in passing, the prominent role of cats in the Brehon Code (= the law-corpus of ancient Ire. & the most comprehensive of ancient west Eur.) not just as pets but for the practical vermin-catching qualities that may have decided whether a family would survive a harsh winter or not

The direct Mediterrano/southern linkage is presumably strengthened by the find of a skull of Barbary ape (the type well known to us in Britain via those at Gibraltar) at Emain Macha (close to Armagh) as part of an apparent ritual deposit of the "wing of bat/eye of newt" more familiar to many of us from the "hubble, bubble, toil & trouble" scene attaching to the three witches in the play by Shakespeare called Macbeth.


http://phoenicia.org...ancornwall.html

http://www.eternalidol.com/?p=7849



Yes, I also saw that the Phoenician (?) word for amber closely resembles this word:

janitor (n.)
1580s, "an usher in a school," later "doorkeeper" (1620s), from L. ianitor "doorkeeper, porter," from ianua "door, entrance, gate," from ianus "arched passageway, arcade" (see Janus) + agent suffix -tor. Meaning "caretaker of a building" first recorded 1708.

So, alas... (and I already regret bringing it up, lol)

.


#2094    Abramelin

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:18 PM

What I am trying to say here is that there are enough clues that Phoenicians and Miinoans/Mycenians visited the coasts of the North Sea and the Baltic.

Linguistic clues and archeological artifacts.


But what I have never posted before, and keeps bugging my mind is this:

When I was in my teens, I once read either a newspaper article or some book, that flatly stated that the typical Dutch word "dijk" ("dike" in English) came from the Phoenician language.

I have tried to find the source for that idea for many years now, but failed to find it.

And you can bet I remember that well: I have always been quite fanatic concerning ancient sailors traveling the seas.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 01 December 2012 - 09:18 PM.


#2095    Otharus

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:46 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 01 December 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

... the typical Dutch word "dijk" ("dike" in English)...

All I can add to that is the relation with ditch and the verb to dig.


#2096    Van Gorp

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:54 PM

A possible explanation of Dijk.

"Dijk" is the result of De-Ijk.
Ijken: Making reliable for measurement -> being sure the boundaries are not surpassed

Related with 'dig'ing and making thick (dik).


#2097    Abramelin

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:13 PM

Related with "digging", I agree, but not with the rest.

When you dig, you create a hole in the ground, and a heap of dirt  alongside of the hole at the same time.


#2098    Abramelin

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:15 PM

View PostOtharus, on 01 December 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

All I can add to that is the relation with ditch and the verb to dig.

"Ditch" is formed by the ending -K- consonant changing into -TSH-  , Frisian style.


#2099    Otharus

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:27 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 01 December 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Related with "digging", I agree, but not with the rest.

etymonline.com/ditch
ditch (n.)
O.E. dic "ditch, dike," a variant of dike (q.v.). Last ditch (1715) refers to the last line of military defenses.

edit: OK now I understand that your answer was for VG, not me.

good night

Edited by Otharus, 01 December 2012 - 10:29 PM.


#2100    Van Gorp

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:38 PM

View PostOtharus, on 01 December 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

etymonline.com/ditch
ditch (n.)
O.E. dic "ditch, dike," a variant of dike (q.v.). Last ditch (1715) refers to the last line of military defenses.

edit: OK now I understand that your answer was for VG, not me.

good night


"Een dijk van een match" -> dik in orde -> degelijk -> dik-gelijk (deeg is dik) -> dik-wijls ... een dijk is dik en "de dijk is de ijk" (there is no denying in the word).

Where is Phoenicia in all this?