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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#2131    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 07:27 AM

The question I always go back to, is, who were the people living in the Northern Europe/Britain area in the Nordic Bronze Age?

The Nordic Bronze Age (also Northern Bronze Age) is the name given by Oscar Montelius to a period and a Bronze Age culture in Scandinavian pre-history, c. 1700-500 BC, with sites that reached as far east as Estonia.[1] Succeeding the Late Neolithic culture, its ethnic and linguistic affinities are unknown in the absence of written sources

Admittedly we have found no writing but there certainly was a culture there, spread all across the North of Europe, now unknown who they were...

Remnants of the Bronze Age religion and mythology are believed to exist in Germanic mythology and Norse mythology; e.g., Skinfaxi and Hrímfaxi and Nerthus, and it is believed to itself be descended from an older "Indo-European" prototype.
http://en.wikipedia....rdic_Bronze_Age

Why do the 'Celts of the West' know the Olympian tale of Phaethon better than anyone else when it's suppose to be a Greek myth and what about the amber in that myth...

At these words, Dionysos rejoiced in hope of victory; then he questioned Hermes and wished to hear more of the Olympian tale which the Celts of the west know well:
http://www.theoi.com...n/Phaethon.html

Everything points to the Greeks having knowledge and history from a people in Northern and Western Europe, possibly via Apollo, since he is a twin and twins dominate Northern European myths, also the mention of his temple in England and that tributes get sent from Hyperborea to him.

Somewhere, somehow, the basis of Greek culture did not begin with the Greeks imo and that opinion of mine always has been, which might blind me to the truth but again, in my opinion, that is the truth and we have been blinded.

Edited by The Puzzler, 09 December 2012 - 07:37 AM.

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#2132    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:50 AM

According to Bock Saga

"All the lands ice“ All-the-lands-ice > A-t-land-is > Atlandis > Atlantis.

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=238918

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#2133    Abramelin

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:35 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 09 December 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

dik seems more original to me than dayak.

dik simply means to dig and when you dig you produce a bulwark or rampart, or later it became a strong wall, or stronghold such as the name of Gadir. (OLB - Kadik)

This is also a dike.

In Old Frisian dig mean diligent and dicht equates to report or draft so these words are not related, the only one is dik - for dig, which imo retains the original meaning of what the etymology really represents - the digging up of the ground to create a fort or rampart, such as is seen all over ancient England (Maiden castle) and other places. Also includes canal building and ditches.

I do not see how this word with such an original meaning in Frisian/Nordic could be a Hebrew import quite frankly.

That's because it's not pronounced like "dayak" in Hebrew; you left out the umlauts: däyäk. Then it sounds something like "deh'yek".

However, my whole thing with Phoenician/Hebrew influence on Germanic language is just that you can prove about anything based on nothing but language.

If I set my mind to it, I can prove, based on nothing but language, that the ancient Yoruba or Hausa visited the shores of the North Sea.

At least the Phoenicians are known to have visited Britain, and from there it's a small journey to the south and east coasts of the North Sea. If the finds of Minoan/Mycenean artifacts plus Linear A inscriptions (on amber seals and on rock) in Scandinavia and the German Bight are confirmed, it becomes even more possible the Phoenicians left words here.


#2134    Abramelin

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:37 PM

View Postthe L, on 09 December 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

According to Bock Saga

"All the lands ice“ All-the-lands-ice > A-t-land-is > Atlandis > Atlantis.

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=238918

Yeah...

Well, at least the ancients spoke English, right?


#2135    Abramelin

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:28 PM

View PostVan Gorp, on 08 December 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

If the above will be one of the last posts, it's a nice one.
Chile, Chil, Kil, Kelt, Fris, ...: cool link :-)

It has been very interesting for me too, thnx for all the info sharing by everyone.

With these cold winterdays, I was reading a bit by the fire about one of our Middleage classics: Van Maerlant's work 'Spiegel historiael' (13th CE).
As a salute to OLB and it's 'papekappe' reference, the first source (in my knowing) also combining the 2 words paep and cap.
Allthough it is more 'paep' (pope) and 'scap' (ship), pointing to the clergy in general (priesterschap, priestshood).

"
Ende oec mede hebbic vaer
Dat des dat paepscap belgen soude
Of ic mi dies onderwinden woude
Ende anderwaerven hebbic gewesen
In haer begripen van desen
Want ic leeken weten dede
Uter byblen die heimelichede.
"

Translation:

"
And I have also the fear,
That the ‘priesthood’ (clergy) would be irritated,
If I would dare to undertake this,
In sortlike circumstances
I have experienced allready their torn about it.
Because of what I dared to handle as a layman
About biblic and heavenly subjects.
"

Lol, maybe I was too fast: I appear to have woken up a couple of people.

Chili "chilly", a bit cold, heh.

No one really knows where the name "Chile" comes from: http://en.wikipedia....Chile#Etymology

But I can add to yours...

You will have heard of "Viracocha", the mythical bringer of civilization to the Peruvians/Incas.

Viracocha << Fiere Kogge = Brave Ship.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Cog_(ship)

:w00t:

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 December 2012 - 02:32 PM.


#2136    Abramelin

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:45 PM

Adding to my posts about the Frisians discovering North, Meso- and South America, I want to add what I read on Otharus' blog:

11) Dr. Ottema to L.F. Over de Linden, 03-03-1877:
(About a letter he had received from E. Leyte, editor of the German Correspondent in Baltimore, dated 6-2-1877.)

The author informed me that in the wide mouth of the Amazon River, a group of islands is located, known as 'Inkas Islands', and inhabited to date by a human race with blue eyes and blond hair.


This information was of great value to me, because until now I had found nothing, that I could use to determine with some probability, a spot where Inka might have landed. I always expected that he would have ended up somewhere at the north-coast of Brasil, but now it has become clear to me, that the name of these islands keep a memory to Inka, and prove that he sailed and settled there with his fleet. The descendants of this colony of Frisians and Fins (specially the latter) will have moved land-inwards along the coasts of the Amazon River during many centuries, until they arrived at the westcoast of America, where they were found back in Chile and Peru, 3500 years later.

Isn't it remarkable that someone in Baltimore is motivated to send me a message that unexpectedly explains such a great mystery?

And isn't it remarkable as well that on those Inka Islands the Frisian type was preserved, and in Peru and Chile the Finnish type is found?

http://fryskednis.bl...-de-linden.html

I haven't found these 'Inkas Islands" in the mouth of the Amazon River yet, but I know one thing: the native Peruvians (Quechua) and Chileans (Mapuche) look nothing like any Fin.

What I think is kind of amazing is that I post about a 11th century document (Adam von Bremen) describing the (re)discovery of North America by the Frisians, or the discovery of Meso America and South America by the Frisians according to a 17th century Frisian historiographer (Martinus Hamconius), and then many seem to think, "Mwuah, ok, nice find. How's the weather overthere in Holland?". Maybe I should start a separate thread about it

Hamconius lived centuries after Columbus so he could have made it up, but Von Bremen lived centuries before Columbus.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 December 2012 - 02:48 PM.


#2137    Abramelin

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:05 AM

No 'Inkas Islands', but......



It is one of the most enticing archaeological mysteries of the Americas — a long-overlooked ancient culture that existed for 900 years on an island at the mouth of Amazon River and then disappeared.

Little is known about this lost people, who are called the Marajo — the name Portuguese explorers gave the Brazilian island (about the size of the Netherlands) where they once lived.

"We don't know their language," said Margaret Young-Sánchez, curator of pre-Columbian art at the Denver Art Museum. "We don't know their ethnic group. We don't know much about them. All we know is that they were not the same as the people who were there at the time of the European arrival."

But as a new exhibition she organized makes clear, the Marajo were extraordinary clay artists, creating red, white and black earthenware works of striking scale, originality and complexity.

(...)

The extreme climate was the main reason for such thinking. Because the Marajo's island floods for one-half of the year and is dry the rest of the time, it seemed impossible that anything more than small, scattered settlements could have existed there.

"And therefore," she said, "there wasn't going to be much to find, so people didn't really explore very much."

But beginning in the 1980s, researchers discovered that was wrong. In fact, there had been a substantial population that built large artificial mounds to escape the flooding and developed fishing and irrigation farming.


http://www.denverpos...ent/ci_18242426


#2138    Abramelin

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:21 AM

The next does indeed suggest a connection with the Inca (a suggestion made by Meggers, and not from the 19th century, btw) :


The Marajoara or Marajó culture was a pre-Columbian era society that flourished on Marajó island at the mouth of the Amazon River. In a survey, Mann suggests dates between 800 AD and 1400 AD for the culture, while other research posits activity two centuries earlier and persistence two centuries later, into the colonial era.

Sophisticated pottery—large and elaborately painted and incised with representations of plants and animals—is the most impressive finding in the area and provided the first evidence of complex society on Marajó. Evidence of mound building further suggests well-populated and sophisticated settlements emerged on the island. However, the extent, level of complexity, and resource interactions of the Marajoara culture are disputed. Meggers suggests that the society migrated from the Andes and settled on the island.


http://en.wikipedia....rajoara_culture


However, the dates given for that culture could even support Von Bremen's and Hamconius' histories, but not the OLB.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 10 December 2012 - 04:22 AM.


#2139    Abramelin

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:15 AM

Here is a very detailed map of the area near the mouth of the Amazon river:

http://upload.wikime...a-22-2nd-ed.jpg

What we should be looking for is those "Inca Islands" or "ilhas dos Incas" in Portuguese.

I tried, but didn't find them. Either they never existed or their name has changed.


#2140    Abramelin

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:24 AM

Here are many old maps of South America:

http://commons.wikim...f_South_America

And again: nada.

Quote

11) Dr. Ottema to L.F. Over de Linden, 03-03-1877:
(About a letter he had received from E. Leyte, editor of the German Correspondent in Baltimore, dated 6-2-1877.)

The author informed me that in the wide mouth of the Amazon River, a group of islands is located, known as 'Inkas Islands', and inhabited to date by a human race with blue eyes and blond hair.


This information was of great value to me, because until now I had found nothing, that I could use to determine with some probability, a spot where Inka might have landed. I always expected that he would have ended up somewhere at the north-coast of Brasil, but now it has become clear to me, that the name of these islands keep a memory to Inka, and prove that he sailed and settled there with his fleet. The descendants of this colony of Frisians and Fins (specially the latter) will have moved land-inwards along the coasts of the Amazon River during many centuries, until they arrived at the westcoast of America, where they were found back in Chile and Peru, 3500 years later.



#2141    Abramelin

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:48 PM

If no one is able to come up with a map this E. Leyte must have used when he told Ottema that there were "Inka Islands" in the mouth of the Amazon river, I think that Leyte was pulling Ottema's leg, lol.

I posted a link to a Wiki page with ancient maps of South America, and NONE show these islands.


#2142    Abramelin

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:50 AM

This paper concludes that most of the mounds on Marajó Island are natural mounds (ie: not 'terps'):

Archaeological Mounds in Marajó Island
in Northern Brazil: A Geological
Perspective Integrating Remote Sensing
and Sedimentology


http://www.dsr.inpe....haeological.pdf


And then this:

Archaeological Research on Marajo Island
http://www.marajoara...t_research.html

The Archaeology of Marajó Island
At the end of the 19th century, travelers and naturalists
were mentioning the existence of earthen mounds
cointaining funerary vessels on Marajo Island, starting
to study that culture. The American archaeologists
Betty Meggers and Clifford Evans were the first to
carry out a scientific study of Marajoara society. In the
1950's, impressed with the highly elaborated ceramics,
and the monumentality of the mounds, they suggested
that the Marajoara people had migrated from the
Andes, since they did not believe that social complexity
could emerge in a tropical forest environment.
However, today, some scholars believe that the
Marajoara culture originated locally, emerging from a
process of cultural change that occurred within
communities who inhabited the area since 3,500 years
ago.



Too late for the 'Fryans' or Inka and his men, too early for the 11th century Frisians.


#2143    Abramelin

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:47 AM

What is strangely lacking from the OLB is what happened around 1200 BC:

1250 to 1050 BC -- Purifying Fires and an Exodus of Enormous Proportions

[...]

Apolloduros, a Greek author of the 2nd Century BC, recounts the event which, as with Crete, struck Mycenae: "Poseidon in his rage let monstrous masses of water overwhelm the land; the Thrisassio plain was drowned and Attica sank beneath the sea.". All things considered, Homer, Apolloduros, and the archeological and geological evidence all paint the same picture.

A physicist that studies earthquakes has another interpretation of what else took place. He sees a swarm of earthquakes taking place over 50 years, around 1200 BC, and sweeping areas from southern Italy to central Turkey. It was not just the earthquakes that were responsible, but that "the earthquakes provided the vulnerability of these economic and military centers to attack."


Elsewhere in Europe

Similar events seem to stretch throughout Europe and into the region of the North Sea. Over 400 pile (lake) dwellings in Europe were overwhelmed so quickly that bronze weapons, jewelry, cooking pots, and other objects of daily use were found in the lake bed. The scene seems to suggest that sudden and simultaneous flood waves occurred in the lakes, and were of the kind that only occur after the most violent earthquakes.

One geologist found many places from North Jutland to Dithmarschen, in the area of the North Sea, with traces of a great flood that overwhelmed islands and coastal lands: "If we compare the results of these observations, we have to conclude that a flood coming from the west once broke over these coasts, far surpassing in height and extent any other known to history." As a result, a village now rests five meters (16.5 feet) below the surface of Lake Bolsena. Italian Department of Antiquities authorities say that it was smashed by a severe earthquake that caused a violent "tidal" wave to wash over the village, leaving only the walls of the huts. Its full extent is suggested by the Umbrians' history, who are not native to Italy, but legend says that they were driven from their homeland by a terrible flood. These are but a few examples of civilizations dissolved away as a result of floods and gargantuan earthquakes, which seem to dominate the scene of this time period.

The north of Europe was densely populated before this period of upheaval began. However, it lost most of its population in the 13th Century BC. The archeological evidence indicates an almost total lack of finds on the Danish islands and the Scandinavian mainland. Furthermore, this situation lasts for 350 years, and was the result of widespread forces unleashed against civilization. Archeologists and historians see the events culminating in a mass migration away from the region.

Geologists' observations in a number of areas indicate that a huge wave overcame Europe. The West Coast of Germany was flooded by such an enormous wave that banks of silt were created that today stretch 25 kilometers (15.5 miles) and up to 10 meters high (35 feet), even after more than 3,000 years of weathering. On the south coast of the North Sea another excavation disclosed what remained of a "catastrophe of annihilating force": "With all its violent power, the North Sea [struck so hard] that trees were laid flat by the first rush of the water. The tops of these uprooted trees always point to the east, which supports the assumption that the catastrophe was caused by a storm from the west."

Also about 2.5 meters (8.2 feet) below the waves near the island of Memmert, ancient dryland was discovered. There, underwater, and in addition to other things, "the hoof marks of cattle and horses were also visible and wagon tracks [were] clearly marked in the soil." Certainly, these had been covered quickly or they would not have lasted, which suggests more than merely "a storm." This event was one of the factors that sent masses of people (including the Sea People) migrating, or more accurately, fleeing for their lives.


The story throughout the remainder of Europe is all too familiar when compared with the evidence from elsewhere. In Hungary the existing population either completely died out or moved to some unknown location(s), leaving the area behind for the fundamental, even ethnic changes that occurred with the newcomers, the Urnfield culture. Etna, a volcano in Northeastern Sicily, erupted three times during this period. Thapsos, a promontory, once an island near Syracuse in Sicily, has virtually nothing left of the village that was brought to ruin there. In Central Europe the Tumulus culture, too, filled the pages of its final chapter. The last remains of Stonehenge, enfeebled by the previous cycle, was no match for what this cycle brought upon them, as they passed from history. Spain, France, Portugal and a number of islands were not immune, as elsewhere, to the necessity of wildlife's reestablishment.

http://www.livingcos...1250-1050BC.htm
http://www.unexplain...25#entry3342971


In Defense of Nature: The History Nobody Told You About
By Richard Michael Pasichnyk

http://books.google....AwC&redir_esc=y


.

Edited by Abramelin, 11 December 2012 - 10:58 AM.


#2144    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:35 PM

„The years were not counted, for one was as happy as the other.”
What a sentence. Utopia. And with Adela followers somehow reminds me on Tolkien. I guess because Tolkien was influenced by North European mythologies and Frisia is near.
After reading somehow I felt that Frisians have had mother cult.

Oera Linda book dates from 19 century and is written in Frisian language and it dates from 2194 BC to 803 AD. We think it dates from 19 century due dating of paper and ink, but could it be that was that copy of earlier work?
I have several question. Why is stops at 803 AD and why started with 2194 BC?
Is it written in Old Frisian or modern Frisian?
Who do you think written it Haverschmidt (Piet Paaltjens), Over de Linden, Eelco Verwijs?
In what extend is forgery and in for what reasons?
Did Frisians have had alphabet?
I see it mentions Atland which was destroyed 2193 BC, Ior Bock mentioned Atlandis, similar? About that time 2200 Troy level III was constructed. So I know is streched but could it be that they abadon Atland and built Troy III?
Is there any evidence that Oera Linda Book contains desrciption of events that actually happens?
When Frisia was flooded?
Abramelin I remember once you saying that was cryptographic work and that  Over de Linden was Freemason. That it contains 32 pages but teo pages are lost and that it use 32 letters and that two are not explained. This might sound like a stupid question but do we have now 30 pages when those 2 were lost?

I picked up that tin mines were important to proto-Frisians. So its interesting that Tin mines we have only in south England, Serbia-Balkan and Afghanistan. So thats wierd.

Edited by the L, 13 December 2012 - 08:53 PM.

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For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#2145    Knul

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:33 PM

View Postthe L, on 13 December 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

„The years were not counted, for one was as happy as the other.”
What a sentence. Utopia. And with Adela followers somehow reminds me on Tolkien. I guess because Tolkien was influenced by North European mythologies and Frisia is near.
After reading somehow I felt that Frisians have had mother cult.

Oera Linda book dates from 19 century and is written in Frisian language and it dates from 2194 BC to 803 AD. We think it dates from 19 century due dating of paper and ink, but could it be that was that copy of earlier work?
I have several question. Why is stops at 803 AD and why started with 2194 BC?
Is it written in Old Frisian or modern Frisian?
Who do you think written it Haverschmidt (Piet Paaltjens), Over de Linden, Eelco Verwijs?
In what extend is forgery and in for what reasons?
Did Frisians have had alphabet?
I see it mentions Atland which was destroyed 2193 BC, Ior Bock mentioned Atlandis, similar? About that time 2200 Troy level III was constructed. So I know is streched but could it be that they abadon Atland and built Troy III?
Is there any evidence that Oera Linda Book contains desrciption of events that actually happens?
When Frisia was flooded?
Abramelin I remember once you saying that was cryptographic work and that  Over de Linden was Freemason. That it contains 32 pages but teo pages are lost and that it use 32 letters and that two are not explained. This might sound like a stupid question but do we have now 30 pages when those 2 were lost?

I picked up that tin mines were important to proto-Frisians. So its interesting that Tin mines we have only in south England, Serbia-Balkan and Afghanistan. So thats wierd.

Quite some good questions. Here are my answers.

1. The original text has been written in 19th c. Dutch by Dr. J.H. Halbertsma. The Dutch text has been translated word-by-word into some sort of Oldfrisian e.g. the Riustringian dialect, the text has been transcribed into a unique self-made Jol-script by Ernst Stadermann, friend of the owner Cornelis over de Linden. The aim was to publish the manuscript by Stadermann & Son in Den Helder (Netherlands), but this did not happen and the manuscript stayed unfinished when Stadermann died April 13th 1867. Cornelis over de Linden then tried to sell the manuscript, but needed a translation. see 3.
2. The years calculated in the OLB have been derived from the Frisian Almanak, which dates the biblical flood 2193 BC. The years AD 803  and AD 1256 are significant. In AD 803 the Frisians got some independency by Charles the Great, in 1256 the reign started of the Dutch count Floris V, whose aim was to submit the Frisians to the Dutch rule.
3. The combination Haverschmidt, Verwijs and Over de Linden is not valid. Haverschmidt and Verwijs denied, Over de Linden claims ti have received the manuscripts from his aunt Aafje.  Verwijs did niet see the manuscript untill the end if November 1867, when he visited Over de Linden in Den Helder. Over de Linden contacted him through his friend Siderius (Harlingen) and the schoolmaster Jansen  (Harlingen), from October 7th onward directly (by letter). Verwijs did not know the name of the owner of the manuscript.
4. The original text has been written in Dutch and uses modern Dutch expressions and follow the modern Dutch construction of sentences.
5. The book speaks of Aldlant - Old country. Ald is shortened to Ad as is Old in Dutch is shortened to Oud.
6. There is no evidence, that events actually happened. There are no reports as old as the Celtic era. Some events are historic like the expedition of Alexander the Great.
7. Frisia has been flooded many times, so monks builded dykes and hills (terpen) to rescue cattle.
8. Over de Linden was no member of the Freemasonry in Den Helder. Wumkes wrote that he had similar ideas, probably influenced by Volney, which was very popular in the early 19th c.
9. A whole chapter and two  pages are missing now, but probably a lot more at the end of the manuscript. I guess the missing chapter and pages were yellowing in an eel smokery when Stadermann died. Over de Linden did not know the address and did not explain.
10. The reason of the forgery was to earn money. Stadermann had the aim to publish the document, Over de Linden to sell the manuscript.