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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#2476    Abramelin

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:12 PM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 12 February 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

i was not really commenting on the extent of the territory , but just that the middle-sea may have had a bore run up it , hence the name boorne ..........like the one that runs up the severn river

The name of the river wasn't about a 'bore',  it was about a BORDER, a boundary.

The former name of the Frisian Middle Sea had to do with just that.

It was a clear hint.

When was that 'boundary' established? Think about that.

Sorry, but I am really getting frustrated about people who did not take the trouble to read what I have posted, or anyone else's posts here.

Yes, this is a gigantic thread, I do know, but I have also explained how you can search this thread for information.

Just don't tell me you have missed that....... I have posted many times about how to search part -1- of this thread.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 12 February 2013 - 05:34 PM.


#2477    Abramelin

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:15 PM

For Menno Knul (and by God, I hope he gets it)

Posted Image

Edited by Abramelin, 12 February 2013 - 05:16 PM.


#2478    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:32 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 12 February 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

The name of the river wasn't about a 'bore',  it was about a BORDER, a boundary.

The former name of the Frisian Middle Sea had to do with just that.

It was a clear hint.

When was that 'boundary' established? Think about that.

Sorry, but I am really getting frustrated about people who did not take the trouble to read what I have posted, or anyone else's posts here.

Yes, this is a gigantic thread, I do know, but I have also explained how you can search this thread for information.

Just don't tell me you have missed that....... I have posted many times about how to search part -1- of this thread.

.

What a joke .....you posted that you wanted people to come with a different perspective , and some different ideas... i am afraid i have come to the conclusion you only want people who agree with whatever you think . and you make a point of not considering other peoples ideas and thoughts.

its all yours Abe , i wont ( bore) you with my thoughts any more ......... have a nice life


#2479    Abramelin

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 10:41 PM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 12 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

What a joke .....you posted that you wanted people to come with a different perspective , and some different ideas... i am afraid i have come to the conclusion you only want people who agree with whatever you think . and you make a point of not considering other peoples ideas and thoughts.

its all yours Abe , i wont ( bore) you with my thoughts any more ......... have a nice life

I don't want people to just agree with me, I want people to contradict me with valid arguments. I thereby learn

Just ask a Cormac or an Everdred. They contradicted me (in the "Atlantis" thread) with very valid arguments, and they based their arguments on the knowledge they had about the topic we were arguing about.

I respect people having knowledge I have not, but I don't respect bullsh1t.

Grow some balls, No.

Don't be offended that easily, ok?

I wasn't out to offend you.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 12 February 2013 - 10:51 PM.


#2480    Van Gorp

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:35 PM

NO-ID-EA: I find your ideas nevertheless interesting if that matters ...

Bore, born, berne (cfr the verb boren in Dutch = 'drill', or to be born) ->  find a way out/in (out of the uterus or into the land or into another river   -> full of alcohol and you can see it -> bourré in french :-)
Boord also plausible  (i think there can be a link with bore -> the border is the place that makes in and out, there is the friction) -> berm

As with border, the 'Rein' or 'Rijn' -> this can also meanto be just a border (also a river, but does not have to be) -> http://www.etymologi...trefwoord/rein2


#2481    Abramelin

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:57 PM

Gawd......sigh..............


#2482    Van Gorp

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:58 AM

Sigh back.


#2483    Abramelin

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:09 AM

From this link:

http://books.google....nepage&q&f=true

Posted Image


The oldest name of the precursor of the Middelzee/Middle Sea is Bordine, Bordne or Bordena and it means 'grensrivier' or border river or boundary river.

And according to the OLB it was the western boundary of the Fryan empire. The small problem is that the Middle Sea arose from the Bordine as late as the 10th century. That's only some 3200 years too late for the OLB version...


#2484    Knul

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:09 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 12 February 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

For Menno Knul (and by God, I hope he gets it)

Posted Image



I showed the picture to my cat. She was not amused.


#2485    Van Gorp

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:20 PM

About those 2 middle seas:
  • one we know now as the Mediterranean, and also referred to in OLB as middelsê,
  • other in upper Netherlands
and for some like Abe seemingly possibly the last one meant as western 'boundary' of the area where the Frisians were living


By morne paldon wi ovir it uter ende thes aster-sê, by êvind an thene middelsê



I think some other relevant quotes are these:

Before the bad time came our country was the most beautiful in the world. The sun rose higher, and there was seldom frost.
... we had many different names... All those who lived between Denmark and the Sandval, now the Scheldt, were called Stuurlieden (pilots), Zeekampers (naval men), and Angelaren (fishermen).

So the sun rose higher and seldom frost (how odd??) -> so than closer to the equator than nowadays -> northpole (slope of earth) was different by which region at the north sea incl Danemark had seldom frost
-> their north was located more to our north-west, their west more to our south-west, their east more to our north-east

Besides that: if there were Frisians living near the Scheldt, it's rather strange to mention the Dutch middelzee as the Western boundary of the Frisians.


#2486    Abramelin

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 10:30 AM

Yes, Van Gorp, I know about the discrepancy, that there was also Fryan territory south-west of the Frisian Middel Sea.

I have also said long ago that the North Sea itself may have been this Middel Sea because it is kind of strange the North Sea is never mentiond in the OLB, but the Baltic is ("Balda", or angry sea as it was suggested).

Wralda's Sea would then simply be the Wereldzee or "world sea", the (Atlantic) Ocean.

war-l-d 34, wr-al-d, afries., st. F. (i): nhd. Welt; ne. world; Hw.: vgl. an. ver‡ld, ae.
weorold, anfrk. werold, as. werold*, ahd. weralt*; Q.: R, W, E, H; E.: germ.
*weraldi-, *weraldiz, st. F. (i), Zeitalter, Menschen?; vgl. idg. *øÂros, Adj., M.,
kräftig, Mann, Pokorny 1177; idg. idg. *al- (2), *h2el-, V., wachsen (V.) (1),
nähren, Pokorny 26; W.: nfries. wrâld, wrâd, wraud; W.: saterl. wareld; W.:
nnordfries. wrald, wrâl;


http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-W.pdf


But what is known from the early middle ages is that the North Sea was once called the Mare Frisicum or Frisian Sea because it was dominated by the Frisians, and the OLB says that only the Frysans were allowed to sail Wralda's Sea.

So that combined made made me think that the North Sea was Wralda's Sea, or maybe that Wralda's Sea consisted of the North Sea plus the Atlantic. And if the North Sea was (part of) Wralda's Sea, it explains why the North Sea is never mentioned in the OLB.

From the Doggerland thread I learned that one of the most ancient names for the North Sea was "Hel" or "Halja" or similar (Frisian) names. No hints to that name in the OLB either.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 17 February 2013 - 11:26 AM.


#2487    Knul

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:12 AM

View PostVan Gorp, on 16 February 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

About those 2 middle seas:
  • one we know now as the Mediterranean, and also referred to in OLB as middelsê,
  • other in upper Netherlands
and for some like Abe seemingly possibly the last one meant as western 'boundary' of the area where the Frisians were living


By morne paldon wi ovir it uter ende thes aster-sê, by êvind an thene middelsê



I think some other relevant quotes are these:

Before the bad time came our country was the most beautiful in the world. The sun rose higher, and there was seldom frost.
... we had many different names... All those who lived between Denmark and the Sandval, now the Scheldt, were called Stuurlieden (pilots), Zeekampers (naval men), and Angelaren (fishermen).

So the sun rose higher and seldom frost (how odd??) -> so than closer to the equator than nowadays -> northpole (slope of earth) was different by which region at the north sea incl Danemark had seldom frost
-> their north was located more to our north-west, their west more to our south-west, their east more to our north-east

Besides that: if there were Frisians living near the Scheldt, it's rather strange to mention the Dutch middelzee as the Western boundary of the Frisians.

The Frisian territory is described from Weser (Wrsara) till Sincfal (Schelde), in the Middle Ages described as the Seven Sealands. Abramelin just does not admit that he is wrong.


#2488    Abramelin

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:14 AM

View PostKnul, on 17 February 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:


The Frisian territory is described from Weser (Wrsara) till Sincfal (Schelde), in the Middle Ages described as the Seven Sealands. Abramelin just does not admit that he is wrong.

I think I just said I was aware of the discepancy.


#2489    Abramelin

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:37 AM

The Mediterranean is not west of the Baltic (the "East Sea", or the OLB Aster-Se), but south. So in this passage of the OLB I think that another 'Middle Sea' is meant.

It is at least another coincidence worth noting that the medieval Frisian Middle Sea originated from a river which name meant "border river".


.

Edited by Abramelin, 17 February 2013 - 11:39 AM.


#2490    Abramelin

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:19 PM

What's also interesting is that the Danes call the North Sea "Vesterhavet" or West Sea.


From an old post:
http://www.unexplain...5#entry4193333\

Posted Image
This is a map from around the beginning of the 16th century made by the German cartographer Erhard Etzlaub.



The "Wester See" (Western Sea) is located west of the Dutch provinces of Noord-and South Holland and Zeeland and West Flanders, former Frisian territory (and former OLB "Westland").


Posted Image
Map of the Kingdom of Friesland during the Middle Ages.


+++

EDIT:

Jahrbuch des Vereins für Niederdeutsche Sprachforschung (1875)
http://archive.org/d...svere01spragoog


Bruder Nigels dänische Reimchronik niederdeutsch
(Brother Nigels' Danish Rhyme Chronicle - Low German)

( a bit furher it says, "Nigels, Erikes broder", or "Nigels, Erik's brother")


95

Darvmme ick twir Norwegen want;
Fol. 51». So dede ick ok mit Schotlant,

2655 Ick Engelant wan vnde HuberTant
Vnde Swedenrijck vnde so Curlant,
Biarmie lant*) vnde Orken oe
Vnde andere deine lant in der wester see.
Dar kreech ick groten schaden van vngewapende mannen
26G0 Mer dan van den gewapenden Bomeren altosamen.


It's from the end of the 15th century:

http://books.google....deutsch&f=false



.

Edited by Abramelin, 17 February 2013 - 02:14 PM.