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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#2596    The Puzzler

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:59 PM

View PostApol, on 06 March 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Yes, I can see it now. I've made it all more difficult than it is. In reality it is very simple. It is the way I imagined it to be from the beginning. Later I have messed it up.

Adel and Jfkja travelled up the Rhine to the sea-dwellers (the same sea-dwellers as the ones Apollânja wrote about - in Bodenzee).
After staying there for a while they returned to the Rhine-Maas delta.

On their way - in the area of the old burgh of Aken - which must mean a short distance before Bonn - their servants were murdered by savage Twisklanders.
Konerêd writes that it happened "in the area of" Aken, because they didn't pass close by the burgh - the burgh was situated some 60 km west of the Rhine.

Yes. I only just saw about the Twisklanders. They had crossed the Rhine, on to the Aachen side.

Yes, 'about' the area too. Near Bonn I agree.

and had reached about the old citadel of Aken.



And Abe, they didn't just pull up along the South Rhine, they went down it (followed it)  to get to the Marsaten.

From Texland they went to Westflyland, and so along the cost to Walhallagara; thence they followed the Zuiderryn (the Waal), till,

Edited by The Puzzler, 07 March 2013 - 12:09 AM.

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#2597    Abramelin

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:22 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 06 March 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

Yes. I only just saw about the Twisklanders. They had crossed the Rhine, on to the Aachen side.

Yes, 'about' the area too. Near Bonn I agree.

and had reached about the old citadel of Aken.



And Abe, they didn't just pull up along the South Rhine, they went down it (followed it)  to get to the Marsaten.

From Texland they went to Westflyland, and so along the cost to Walhallagara; thence they followed the Zuiderryn (the Waal), till,

The Twisklanders who had done the wicked deed called themselves Frijen or Franken.

-

In the same way as Apollonia, they visited Lydasburgt and the Alderga. Afterwards they made a tour of all the neighbourhood of Stavera.



This is not about 600 BCE, this is about the Franks who showed up more than a millennium later in the area.

And the area is the south of the Netherlands (the province of Gelderland and Brabant), not the area around the German Aken.

The South Rhine is the river Waal. and that's where the Dutch Marsatii lived, south of Lake Flevo.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 07 March 2013 - 12:26 AM.


#2598    Abramelin

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:29 AM

OK, if it is the German Aken, then please explain to me what the name means.

The name is of Roman origin (Aquae Granni), and not from 600 BCE.


Posted Image

De vroege Middeleeuwen van 500 tot 1000
The early middle ages from 500 - 1000 AD


http://www.stellingw...iddeleeuwen.htm

The green area is occupied by the Franks.In the Netherlands that is the area of Gelderland, Utrecht and Brabant.

Got ya,  :P

.

Edited by Abramelin, 07 March 2013 - 12:43 AM.


#2599    The Puzzler

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:55 AM

The Franks moved into that area by crossing the Rhine. From Twiskland, to Aachen, then spread more as they took over more.

It's in the time of Adel accordingly in the OLB.

Who is 'they'?  You think it's the Franks? I think it's Adel and Ifkja. That's what the whole chapter is about. The tour of duty they did, like Apollonia did.



In the same way as Apollonia, they visited Lydasburgt and the Alderga. Afterwards they made a tour of all the neighbourhood of Stavera. They behaved with so much amiability, that everywhere the people wished to keep them. Three months later, Adel sent messengers to all the friends that he had made, requesting them to send to him their “wise men” in the month of May

I understand your point, it seems like it's the Franks but on reading it over, I don't think it is.

The Franken crossed the Rhine, yes, into the area of Aachen and spread from there, but not in the mention in that above paragraph.

Edited by The Puzzler, 07 March 2013 - 01:21 AM.

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#2600    The Puzzler

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:59 AM

aqua- Posted Image

word-forming element meaning "water," from Latin aqua "water; the sea; rain," cognate with Proto-Germanic *akhwo, source of Old English ea "river," Gothic ahua "river, waters," Old Norse Ægir, name of the sea-god, Old English ieg "island;" all from PIE *akwa- "water" (cf. Sanskrit ap "water," Hittite akwanzi "they drink," Lithuanian uppe "a river").

http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=aqua-



A Proto-Germanic word too. Depends if you think Latin was the first to have this meaning and word.

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#2601    Abramelin

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:17 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 07 March 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

The Franks moved into that area by crossing the Rhine. From Twiskland, to Aachen, then spread more as they took over more.

It's in the time of Adel accordingly in the OLB.

Whose is 'they'?  You think it's the Franks? I think it's Adel and Ifkja. That's what the whole chapter is about. The tour of duty he did, like Apollonia did.



In the same way as Apollonia, they visited Lydasburgt and the Alderga. Afterwards they made a tour of all the neighbourhood of Stavera. They behaved with so much amiability, that everywhere the people wished to keep them. Three months later, Adel sent messengers to all the friends that he had made, requesting them to send to him their “wise men” in the month of May

I understand your point, it seems like it's the Franks but on reading it over, I don't think it is.

From the OLB:

The Twisklanders who had done the wicked deed called themselves Frijen or Franken.

And that should be "Franks", the English plural. Sandbach wasn't a genius concerning language.

But if you don't believe in what the OLB says about them, then what are we talking about?

Anyway, 600 BCE there were no "Franks".


#2602    Abramelin

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:18 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 07 March 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

aqua- Posted Image

word-forming element meaning "water," from Latin aqua "water; the sea; rain," cognate with Proto-Germanic *akhwo, source of Old English ea "river," Gothic ahua "river, waters," Old Norse Ægir, name of the sea-god, Old English ieg "island;" all from PIE *akwa- "water" (cf. Sanskrit ap "water," Hittite akwanzi "they drink," Lithuanian uppe "a river").

http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=aqua-



A Proto-Germanic word too. Depends if you think Latin was the first to have this meaning and word.

No, it's the Romans who gave that town its name.


#2603    Apol

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:37 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 06 March 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

To start with the Angelfire/Sandbach translation: it has been wrong so many times, it is just incredible.

It's not "towards the lowlands/delta" but  "back to the lowlands/delta" or "returned to the lowlands/delta"

Second: you can find archeological evidence of human occupation in the area of The Hague of many millennia ago.

Third: the name of the Marsatii is supposed to mean 'people living on lakes/marshes'. So they could be those living directly south of Lake Flevo, or those near Switzerland. It's much like saying their name was "Farmers".

Fourth: they pulled up along the South Rhine,  which is most probably the Waal river. Just another name a of branch of the river Rhine in the Netherlands.

Fifth: show me a delta/lowland near Aken, Germany. The German Aken is located at the foothills of the Ardennes, it's a mountainous area, not much of a delta or lowland there.

The area of The Hague was near the Meuse/Rhine delta.



.

View PostAbramelin, on 06 March 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

This is not about some sea, it is about a lake and/or moors, bogs.

Jesus, Apol, where is that 'sea'?

And where did you get the "60 km west of the Rhine" from?

,.

Yes, of course, 'Abramelin', it's 'Lake Dwellers'. Sorry, I was absent for a moment. Thx for correcting me.

But where are the mountains and the closeness to the Near Krêkalanders in the Rhine-Maas delta? :

Above the Rêna [Rhine], between the mountains, there I have seen lake-dwellers [marsacii]. The lake-dwellers, that is people who live on the lakes. ... And they are the neighbours, or adjacent ones of the Hêinde Krêkalandar [Italians], the Kælta-followers and the savage Twiskers

Adel, Jfkja and their followers were on their way from Bodenzee to the delta when they passed Aachen.
Aachen in Nordrhein-Westfalen is situated approximately 60 km as the crow flies from the Rhine.

I also doubt the ability to extract very much gold from the waters of the Rhine as far down the river as in the delta - it might have been a grain or two twice a year, or so. I would think the gold must have been deposited in the riverbed long before the water reached the lowlands. When tourists are panning for gold in the Rhine today, they do it in the borderland between Switzerland and Germany;
http://www.myswitzer...gold-gusti.html
I think they would have been utterly exhausted if they were to catch gold in the delta:
http://commons.wikim...old_washing.jpg

Edited by Apol, 07 March 2013 - 04:36 AM.


#2604    The Puzzler

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:46 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 07 March 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

From the OLB:

The Twisklanders who had done the wicked deed called themselves Frijen or Franken.

And that should be "Franks", the English plural. Sandbach wasn't a genius concerning language.

But if you don't believe in what the OLB says about them, then what are we talking about?

Anyway, 600 BCE there were no "Franks".

I know it's Franks. The word in the OLB is Franka so maybe Franken is right.

I do believe what the OLB says. I don't think however that passage in question refers to them (Twisklanders/Franken) going to Alderga, Lydasburgt or touring Stavera. That is Adel and his wife imo.

I do think they (Twisklanders/Franks) did cross the Rhine into Aachen and proceeded to move west and north as time went on, settling into the whole area eventually.

Is Adel in 600BC?

Edited by The Puzzler, 07 March 2013 - 04:46 AM.

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#2605    The Puzzler

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:59 AM

Here's an interesting article about the lake dwellers of Helvetia.

http://www.oldandsol...zerland-2.shtml

View PostAbramelin, on 07 March 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

No, it's the Romans who gave that town its name.

Yeah, sure they did.

Edited by The Puzzler, 07 March 2013 - 05:43 AM.

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#2606    Apol

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 06:25 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 07 March 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

Here's an interesting article about the lake dwellers of Helvetia.

http://www.oldandsol...zerland-2.shtml



Yeah, sure they did.

The Romans named it Aquae Granni, yes.  As good as all our written sources stem from the Romans and the Greeks. I want to have a written source telling about the place before the Romans came there. But it doesn't exist. We don't know what was the name of Aachen before that time. It was settled by 'Celtic' peoples in the Iron Age, "who were perhaps drawn by the marshy Aachen basin's hot sulphur springs" (Wikipedia). I regard it likely that its name might have had something to do with Aa- (Old Frisian for 'water') - and most probably Aachen (Aken). The locals have certainly called the city by its original name all the time.
The Vietnamese named their capital Ho Chi Minh City after the American War, but that's officially only. When they speak, it's always Saigon.

Edited by Apol, 07 March 2013 - 06:43 AM.


#2607    The Puzzler

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:02 PM

View PostApol, on 07 March 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

The Romans named it Aquae Granni, yes.  As good as all our written sources stem from the Romans and the Greeks. I want to have a written source telling about the place before the Romans came there. But it doesn't exist. We don't know what was the name of Aachen before that time. It was settled by 'Celtic' peoples in the Iron Age, "who were perhaps drawn by the marshy Aachen basin's hot sulphur springs" (Wikipedia). I regard it likely that its name might have had something to do with Aa- (Old Frisian for 'water') - and most probably Aachen (Aken). The locals have certainly called the city by its original name all the time.
The Vietnamese named their capital Ho Chi Minh City after the American War, but that's officially only. When they speak, it's always Saigon.

That's all I pretty much meant too. How can we know Romans called this place Aken, Aquae Grannis is not really 'Aken'.

Aa-ken might mean 'to feel or see water' - with ken based in 'to know, perceive, to feel'.   

Aken doesn't appear in the Frisian dictionary so could have been a name only word.

It might be co-incidence that ak is in both aqua and Aken but Aken might not mean aqua/water but water/aa+ken

Edited by The Puzzler, 07 March 2013 - 01:06 PM.

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#2608    The Puzzler

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:32 PM

ken or kenn in Frisian is kinship.

If the A is meaning water - the name could lean towards fellow Fryans/kin of the water (town/citadel).

chen in German actually has a meaning:

http://en.wiktionary...ki/-chen#German

Etymology
Originally from Northern Germany, has today mostly replaced the older -lein. Cognate with Dutch -tje and -ke.
Pronunciation
  • IPA: [çn̩], [çən]
Suffix

-chen
  • the most common German suffix to create a diminutive form; e.g., HundHündchen
Usage notes

Words that end in the suffix -chen always become neuter. This is why the common German word for girl, Mädchen, is neuter and not feminine: the non-diminutive word is feminine: Magd. Words that end in the suffix -chen are identical in the singular and in the plural: das Mädchen is 'the girl', die Mädchen are 'the girls'.

-------------------

So, Aachen could just mean 'water'. But not come from Latin aqua.

aa+chen

Edited by The Puzzler, 07 March 2013 - 02:38 PM.

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#2609    Knul

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:51 PM

View PostApol, on 07 March 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

Yes, of course, 'Abramelin', it's 'Lake Dwellers'. Sorry, I was absent for a moment. Thx for correcting me.

But where are the mountains and the closeness to the Near Krêkalanders in the Rhine-Maas delta? :

Above the Rêna [Rhine], between the mountains, there I have seen lake-dwellers [marsacii]. The lake-dwellers, that is people who live on the lakes. ... And they are the neighbours, or adjacent ones of the Hêinde Krêkalandar [Italians], the Kælta-followers and the savage Twiskers

Adel, Jfkja and their followers were on their way from Bodenzee to the delta when they passed Aachen.
Aachen in Nordrhein-Westfalen is situated approximately 60 km as the crow flies from the Rhine.

I also doubt the ability to extract very much gold from the waters of the Rhine as far down the river as in the delta - it might have been a grain or two twice a year, or so. I would think the gold must have been deposited in the riverbed long before the water reached the lowlands. When tourists are panning for gold in the Rhine today, they do it in the borderland between Switzerland and Germany;
http://www.myswitzer...gold-gusti.html
I think they would have been utterly exhausted if they were to catch gold in the delta:
http://commons.wikim...old_washing.jpg

The Old Frisians regarded the golden Rhine river as their own property. So the new burchfam - after installation - once had to make a boat trip to see the property. On the way back to Frisia they arrived as far as Leyden and moved on to WestFryasland and Eastfryasland over inland waterways. How would they get by boat to Aken (Aachen) or Liege ?


#2610    gestur

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 05:23 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 07 March 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

ken or kenn in Frisian is kinship.

If the A is meaning water - the name could lean towards fellow Fryans/kin of the water (town/citadel).

There may be a clue on page 2 of the manuscript, line 13:

ÐACH ÐÆT ELLA IS JO SELVA A-KEN

Ottema - Dutch:

Doch dat alles is u zelven ook bekend

Sandbach - English:

This is well known to you

Wirth - German:

Doch dies hieße euch Bekanntes vermehren

Lien - Norwegian:

Det er dog alt (sammen) velkjent for dere

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com




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