4101 replies to this topic

[Knul]

Abramelin, on 08 March 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

The first Dutch source to mention people that lived in pile dwellings on lakes and marshes, and Marezaten, was Jakob van Lennep in 1832, decades  before the OLB was published. But he located them just above the Dutch part of the river Rhine, south of Lake Flevo.

"Marezaten" appears to be the old Dutch pronounciation of Marsacii,hence my question about how to pronounce "Marsacii".

And look at -D- on this Dutch map of the tribes during Roman times: it shows the Marzaten at the coast of the North Sea:

http://commons.wikim...art_stammen.png


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Could you please quote the text of van Lennep ? It is very important, because the current theory is, that the pile-villages have been found only in 1851-1854 in Switzerland.

Edited by Knul, 08 March 2013 - 04:37 PM.

[Knul]

Abramelin, on 08 March 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

With my former post I only wanted to show you there was (and probably still is) confusion about where the Marsacii (Tacitus) were located. The confusion must have arisen because there was a similar named tribe, the Marsi, living in West Germany,

Those who wrote the OLB must have been confused too, and just equated the Marsacii with the Marsi.

Btw, I wonder how one pronounces "Marsacii": is it like "Marsaki" or like "Marsatshi"?

And proving the OLB by quoting from the OLB won't do.

-

But do you agree with me that the German Aken is not anywhere near the Rhine?


.

Accidentely an offspring from the Rhine River at Leyden is called MARE. Nowadays it is a well-known street. s. http://nl.wikipedia....Mare_(watergang) .

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 08 March 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

Could you please quote the text of van Lennep ? It is very important, because the current theory is, that the pile-villages have been found only in 1851-1854 in Switzerland.

I have quoted it, in part -1- of this thread.

But give me some time please, and I will re-post it again.

If you can't wait, it's a book written by Jakob van Lennep, and published in 1832.

I have been a bit 'distracted' the last couple of hours, after I noticed a helicopter was hovering in front of my room... I live at the 7th floor of a building.

Someone appearently killed himself by throwing himself from many floors high.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 08 March 2013 - 08:37 PM.

[Abramelin]

A quick search gave me this:

http://www.unexplain...65#entry4125987

It's 1838, not 1832.

Quote

The Mareza(a)ten/Marsaten and Batavians were close neighbours.

The Marsaten lived near a river called "Mare" that still (in 1752 that is) runs through the city of Leiden.

"Marezaten"... those 'seated' (gezeten/zaten) near the 'Mare'.

This is a map I posted a few posts back (from Van Lennep's book):

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Edited by Abramelin, 08 March 2013 - 08:29 PM.

[gestur]

Apol, on 08 March 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Mârsâta means lake dwellers - forget about tribes. Wherever people are living on piles, you would just call them "lake dwellers". They could be in any place where there were lakes.

I agree.

I also think that ALDLAND / ATLAND might refer to any OLD (lost) LAND:
We just don't know if it always ment the same in OLB.
Some people may like to believe that, but we really don't know.
For one author it may have pointed to a specific lost island, for another it may have been somewhere else.
In both cases: old-land, land that is no more.

I agree with Alewyn Raubenheimer that an underwater search around the Faroe Islands will be worth the effort.

[Knul]

Abramelin, on 08 March 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

I have quoted it, in part -1- of this thread.

But give me some time please, and I will re-post it again.

If you can't wait, it's a book written by Jakob van Lennep, and published in 1832.

I have been a bit 'distracted' the last couple of hours, after I noticed a helicopter was hovering in front of my room... I live at the 7th floor of a building.

Someone appearently killed himself by throwing himself from many floors high.

.

OK, I wait for that. See below my geography of the OLB, based on the juul-wheel.

[Knul]

Knul, on 08 March 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

fârt = Dutch vaart, boat trip OLB fara, butafarar.

A second question has not been put yet: the order of the lands mentioned.

1 - 4 seems to be clockwise : Eastflyland - Haga Fenna & Walda - Southflyland - Westflyland. Clockwise means: with the sun om like the yule wheel.

Kennemerland did not belong to the Frisian territory. Alkmarum and Egmond occur in the OLB, but have not been listed.

Edited by Knul, 08 March 2013 - 11:15 PM.

[Apol]

Knul, on 08 March 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

Kennemerland did not belong to the Frisian territory. Alkmarum and Egmond occur in the OLB, but have not been listed.

This is the picture of the Flílands that I've had in my head:
http://s1305.beta.ph...e943d5.jpg.html

...but your theory is very interesting and really worth studying thoroughly, so I'm absolutely not stuck to it.
My old view is even contradicting my own theory that Bvda may have been in the Nijmegen area.
Kattaburgh in Katwijk is worth considering. Also that Ljvdburch may have been another place than in Liège. It's hard though not to see Aken as having been elsewhere than in Aachen, but I'm open to everything.

Âtland was NOT in the North Sea, though. "The Findas" - which means the Middle Easterners - came originally from Âtland:
http://s1305.beta.ph...d6b3c6.jpg.html

Finda's People became to the Frisians, as time went by, more and more identical to the Middle Easterners. It's because they became 'possessed' by them - especially after their invasion of the north, like we have a tendency of being 'possessed' by the Moslems and the Jews of the Middle East in our time. It's an old connection there - a deeply rooted fear which we still haven't managed to handle.

But why do you mean that Kennemerland didn't belong to the Frisian territory?

Edited by Apol, 09 March 2013 - 03:13 AM.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 08 March 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

Kennemerland did not belong to the Frisian territory. Alkmarum and Egmond occur in the OLB, but have not been listed.

On what do you base that Aldland was in the north? Olaus Rudbeck's book?

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 08 March 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

I'd say Marsaki myself.

And that's what I would do too.

But apparently in Dutch - and only in Dutch - it becomes "Marsaten" or "Marezaten" (older Dutch").

But who changed a -K- into a -- TSH- ? That's the Frisians.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 March 2013 - 08:56 AM.

[Abramelin]

Apol, on 09 March 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

This is the picture of the Flílands that I've had in my head:
http://s1305.beta.ph...e943d5.jpg.html

I think your Süder Flilanda are too far south because it has no connection with the ancient river Fli/Flie/Vlie.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 08 March 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

OK, I wait for that. See below my geography of the OLB, based on the juul-wheel.

Dr. Ottema van zijn kant kwam juist door de vermelding van
paalwoningen in het H. S. tot het besluit, dat het verhaal voor
't minst eenige eeuwen voor onze tijdrekening moest geschreven
zijn. Een derde wijst er evenwel op, dat in Van Lennep's Brinio,
waarvan de eerste druk in 1838 verscheen, reeds van paalwoningen
bij de Marezaten wordt gesproken.


Posts 7963 and -4 of part -1- of this thread:

http://www.unexplain...50#entry4125748

http://www.unexplain...50#entry4125842

[Abramelin]

gestur, on 08 March 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Like he said:

"One of the problems with our materialistic natural science, is, that it is near to 100% dependent on matter."

When things are found, that is wonderful.
But if no things were found, it does not mean they were never there.

Some things disappear by natural cause over time, others get destroyed (or recycled) by humans.

And I am still awaiting physical proof of an ancient civilization that stretched out over much of Europe, with colonies in Northern Africa and the Middle East.

I understand much could have been lost, but also that much must be still there.

I really won't buy that every physical proof of that civilization has disappeared into thin air.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 08 March 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

Kennemerland did not belong to the Frisian territory. Alkmarum and Egmond occur in the OLB, but have not been listed.

Kennemerland gets its name from the Kennemer people, who were Frisians that fought with the Counts of Holland and lost in the Middle Ages. The name is said to derive from the Canninefates.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Kennemerland

[Apol]

Abramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

And I am still awaiting physical proof of an ancient civilization that stretched out over much of Europe, with colonies in Northern Africa and the Middle East.

I understand much could have been lost, but also that much must be still there.

I really won't buy that every physical proof of that civilization has disappeared into thin air.

Here are some physical proofs of ancient ringwall-burghs in the area of the Netherlands. Most of them are regarded as being from the Viking period, but not everybody agree.
http://s1305.beta.ph...9496ad.jpg.html